NCAA 09 Gameplay Issues (response from EA)

[umd]

Quote: Originally Posted by FlyingFinn

The pursuit angle/aggressiveness of tacklers in this game is wide open.

fixed it for you.

[rhombic21]

After long and extensive play testing, I've decided that really, the biggest problems with this game are not related to the pass rush. You can generate a solid pass rush by making some alterations to plays and using various blitz schemes. The suction blocking and the "flipped off their feet" animations are problems, but they aren't the main issues in the over-effective passing game.

Man coverage, aside from auto-switch logic which sometimes results in defenders automatically switching, then getting confused and stuttering for a second or two, thus leaving the WR wide open, and LB coverage against HBs making quick flare routes and out cuts (similar issue with false steps) is actually pretty accurate.

The problems are first that zone coverage, of every variety that I've seen, are faulty. Both the actual assignments/areas that players cover is faulty, and the reaction of players to the receivers in their area is faulty. The biggest issue is that players are way too passive in reacting to threats in their area. If you watch it a LB in a hook zone, he'll break down and follow a WR across, but only once the WR actually crosses his face. Same thing with Safeties in deep zones. They don't react until the receiver is actually right on top of them.

The other major problem, at least online, which I haven't seen a lot of people talking about, is that people can back up way beyond where QBs normally throw the ball from in real life and throw the ball. This is partially why it feels like there is so little pressure on the passer. He can back way up and still throw accurate passes. On Madden, they have made it so that the pass icons disappear and the passes suffer significant accuracy and power if you throw from more than 15 yards behind the LOS. If you implemented this on NCAA, and people had to stay in the pocket, you'd get a lot more sacks. They really need to bring it over, and since it already works in Madden, there's no reason it can't be in a patch.

I also think they need to implement a new line of sight/vision feature (probably not in a patch, but for 2010), where if defenders are right in the QBs face, the passing icons disappear (you could still try and throw, but you won't be able to see which WR is which icon), and his throwing accuracy takes a big hit. I've spent a lot of time since the game came out watching videos of pass pressure/blitz defenses, and the thing that strikes me is that the actual timing of the pressure isn't all that different than what you see on NCAA if you set up blitzes correctly. The problem is that in real life, the QB can't see over a 6-3 240 pound linebacker or DE bearing down right on him, and he has to tuck the ball and eat it for a sack. On the game, that's not an issue. Go into practice mode sometime and try running some blitzes that come right up the middle. Look at the instant replay and set the camera so that you basically see what the QB would be seeing. You'll notice that it's basically impossible to see anything downfield, particularly between the hash marks. But on the game, people can easily dump it off to a receiver running a drag or an in route just before the blitz arrives.

Additionally, QBs are way too accurate even from within the pocket. Even elite QBs (particularly at the college level) throw a few bad passes per game, and can't throw passes 10+ yards downfield in between 3 defenders with perfect accuracy. I don't care what coverages are being called, or how bad the defense is, there is no way that teams of relatively equal talent should have passing stats that read 21-24 with 2 INTs. On this game if you use precision passing, you can essentially pass high over the middle to a TE or tall receiver and the QB will put the ball exactly on the money every time, so that the guy can make the grab with 2 defenders right in his face. If you watch downfield throws, it's almost back to where last-gen was, where every single pass is thrown perfectly on target for the WR to make a play, so that if the defender doesn't physically break up the pass, it will be completed every single time.

[callmetaternuts]

Rhombic, i agree with you to a point, but saying that the pressure would be fine if the QB didnt drop back 15 yards might be true for HUM vs HUM Play, but the CPU QB doesnt drop back that far and that's the issue alot of people have, playing the CPU and not being able to generate consistent pressure with their front four when they should.

I agree, the passing needs a remake or overhaul with some different ideas in there, some of those being the same ideas in Madden this year.

[rhombic21]

But again though, I think it's a combination of things.

Don't get me wrong, there are issues with the pass pressure, much of which are due to bad play design and suction blocking on the edges, but the bigger issue to me (particularly against the computer) is that because the zone coverages are so awful, and because QBs are so super-accurate, they end up avoiding sacks a lot because they either have a wide open receiver, or they just blindly throw it and get away with it because it's super-accurate.

I found this guy which has a lot of pretty in-depth breakdowns of actual game footage.

http://rpongett.phpwebhosting.com/ut-ou.html

If you watch, there are plenty of times when the QBs have all day to throw, but end up having to throw it away, or have an incomplete pass because the defense either has everything covered, or the QB makes an innaccurate pass. Look at the Colt McCoy Interception where Charles tipped the ball in the air and Smith intercepted it. That doesn't happen on this game because every pass would be right on the money. Mistakes like that, which are missing from this game, are why sitting in zone coverages and coming with an occassional blitz doesn't work. QBs are like robots on this game and almost never mess up and simply miss a wide open guy.

[callmetaternuts]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

But again though, I think it's a combination of things. Don't get me wrong, there are issues with the pass pressure, much of which are due to bad play design and suction blocking on the edges, but the bigger issue to me (particularly against the computer) is that because the zone coverages are so awful, and because QBs are so super-accurate, they end up avoiding sacks a lot because they either have a wide open receiver, or they just blindly throw it and get away with it because it's super-accurate. I found this guy which has a lot of pretty in-depth breakdowns of actual game footage. http://rpongett.phpwebhosting.com/ut-ou.html If you watch, there are plenty of times when the QBs have all day to throw, but end up having to throw it away, or have an incomplete pass because the defense either has everything covered, or the QB makes an innaccurate pass. Look at the Colt McCoy Interception where Charles tipped the ball in the air and Smith intercepted it. That doesn't happen on this game because every pass would be right on the money. Mistakes like that, which are missing from this game, are why sitting in zone coverages and coming with an occassional blitz doesn't work. QBs are like robots on this game and almost never mess up and simply miss a wide open guy.

Completely agree. I thin its hard to point to one problem being bigger than the other. If zones were played correctly, would the CPU take more sacks since guys would be covered better? If LB's could keep up with RB's would that force the QB to throw it away more? If the DL got more pressure, would that force the CPU to throw it away, or take more chances (throw more bad passes)? If the DB's pressured the comeback routes, would more passes be dropped?

I think, like you said, its a combination of things. The DL doesnt get pressure, giving the QB All day. The middle zones especially are wrong, which lets the CPU go over the middle alot, and in the rare instances you get pressure and lock up the middle, the HB's are dusting the LB's and they can check it down. Its a mess in all regards on defense.

Im not the best NCAA player ever, but i do love and know football. I love mixing up D's, hot routing to cover my weaknesses or "shade" areas of the field or certain players (Crabtree). In this game, it doesnt seem to work. No matter what i do, by fixing one problem, i expose another, and even if/when ic all the perfect D, the stupid HB is always open.

Right now there are about 10 ratings that dont matter at all, the biggest being CPU QB AWR (imo)

[rhombic21]

Yeah, it's definitely hard to pinpoint since there are so many issues. My main concern is that EA will address the pass rush, but won't address the other things. The more that I play the game, the more that I realize that the pass rush is only a small part of the equation. QB accuracy, particularly accuracy when on the run or way behind the LOS, and faulty zones are bigger issues to me.

Go into practice mode sometime and try rushing just four from plays that have everybody going wide (either spread + loop the line, or look for diagrams in which all of the DL go straight down), and pass commit. Set up a second controller for the QB and snap the ball and just sit there and see how long it takes the pressure to arrive. I play with OU, which has a pretty good DL, and they will fairly often get there in less than 5 seconds. Not every time, but enough of the time that it would probably result in a fair number of sacks per game if people were forced to sit in the pocket more, and if zones would actually cover the underneath routes correctly. The problem is that when you go online, people just drop backwards for another 10 yards while they wait for receivers to come open, and then they fire it downfield to a guy who is either 1) not covered at all because somebody in zone isn't where they're supposed to be or 2) is covered pretty well by 2 guys on either side, but is able to catch the ball in traffic everytime because the QB literally puts the ball right on target. Of course it takes the pressure longer to get there because the QB is now 15 or 20 yards behind the LOS, and has a speed advantage on my defensive pass rushers to continue to move back or to the side.

It just sucks for using OU, because we're a zone heavy team in real life, and don't have very good CBs on the game. So when I play against teams like Florida or Georgia, I really can't run man bump and coverage. I have a solid front 7, so I can generate some pressure and have speed to cover in short zones, if the guys would actually cover the right areas, but people can just run back 10 or 15 yards, sometimes going from sideline to sideline) and then throw to a dude 25 yards downfield (often times with one of my DEs right in their face) and be right on the money.

For a long time I thought man coverage by CBs was just broken as well, but I played with some teams that have good CBs, and it seems pretty realistic, except for the LB play and the auto-switch issues.

[xV3L0CiTY]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

Yeah, it's definitely hard to pinpoint since there are so many issues.

This is why I'm worried for 2010 already.

They need to start from the ground up on gameplay, or copy the code from '04.

[rhombic21]

http://files.filefront.com/thelamene.../fileinfo.html

[BIG CAROLINA]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

http://files.filefront.com/thelamene.../fileinfo.html

He is checking out the chicks in the stands. That is nuts

[rhombic21]

I'm not sure if this is still a valid patch feedback thread or not, but here is a video showcasing one play that essentially highlights several of the the issues with the pass blocking.

http://files.filefront.com/Passblock.../fileinfo.html