EA Conference Call With Sean Bailey, Lead Designer - Gamplay

[rudyjuly2]

I could have sworn they said last year's game learned what we did after a quarter or so. Maybe that was 2K's football game. The VIP profile idea was a good one. I'm not a cheeser so I won't call a play over and over again anyways. Football games have always had money plays and issues with certain things and I try to play legit against the cpu. We shouldn't have to excercise restraint when trying to beat the cpu but we have to. Not the end of the world.

[fistofrage]

Quote: Originally Posted by rudyjuly2

I could have sworn they said last year's game learned what we did after a quarter or so. Maybe that was 2K's football game. The VIP profile idea was a good one. I'm not a cheeser so I won't call a play over and over again anyways. Football games have always had money plays and issues with certain things and I try to play legit against the cpu. We shouldn't have to excercise restraint when trying to beat the cpu but we have to. Not the end of the world.

Problem with that is that football is all about lining up and seeing who the better team is. If I'm popping 8 yards a carry running it up the gut, any coach in America is going to keep doing it until they are stopped. The defense should be forced to put 8 men in the box to try and stuff the run which should open up the passing game. If the AI isn't going to recognize when the human is having success and try to negate it, then it really takes all the strategy out of the game.

[Ian_Cummings_EA]

I talked with Sean today and I wanted to clarify a couple of things that we feel were either lost in translation or just possibly mis-quoted:

#1: There IS learning AI in NCAA (and Madden). It may not be the most robust system in the world, but there are both offensive and defensive "learning" modules based on play tracking. Thousands of people call it "comeback code", but in reality the AI tries to learn your tendencies and change up it's play calling and shifts/audibles due to it. The issue is that it's not specific enough to pick up on money plays or routes or tendencies...but it does definitely react to you.

#2: The CPU defense does WAY more than just checking down and distance. In the conference call Sean never said anything of the sort...I think this was misquoted here. They don't know your play but they do know your formation and personnel to call their defensive play.

#3: The CPU offensive playcalling doesn't really change much based on personnel, but again they do mix up their play calling based on what's working during the game...so this can fix itself a little bit as the game progresses.


So I guess I just want to say (on behalf of Bailey as well), we agree with all of you that our AI could be improved. But it's not like we have nothing here. Just keep posting issues you may be experiencing personally, and we'll try to get them fixed in the future.

[Sabin]

Well that sounds a little better, because the original quotes made EA look pretty bad.

However I agree with some of the other posters, when I am running the same play up the middle down the field we need to see the defence stack the box.

Also one thing id love to see is play action auctally based on how well you are running the ball. If its the 4th Q and I have 40 yards rushing I dont want the defence reacting to a PA pass the same way if I had 400 yards rushing in the game.

[rudyjuly2]

Thanks for the info and thanks for still being here!

[therizing02]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

I talked with Sean today and I wanted to clarify a couple of things that we feel were either lost in translation or just possibly mis-quoted: #1: There IS learning AI in NCAA (and Madden). It may not be the most robust system in the world, but there are both offensive and defensive "learning" modules based on play tracking. Thousands of people call it "comeback code", but in reality the AI tries to learn your tendencies and change up it's play calling and shifts/audibles due to it. The issue is that it's not specific enough to pick up on money plays or routes or tendencies...but it does definitely react to you. #2: The CPU defense does WAY more than just checking down and distance. In the conference call Sean never said anything of the sort...I think this was misquoted here. They don't know your play but they do know your formation and personnel to call their defensive play. #3: The CPU offensive playcalling doesn't really change much based on personnel, but again they do mix up their play calling based on what's working during the game...so this can fix itself a little bit as the game progresses. So I guess I just want to say (on behalf of Bailey as well), we agree with all of you that our AI could be improved. But it's not like we have nothing here. Just keep posting issues you may be experiencing personally, and we'll try to get them fixed in the future.

I was certain that there had to be some. If there wasn't then why would the CPU defensive personnel always match up? If there was no adaptation then I could go five wide on 3rd and 1 and the CPU may go big or goal line. I've never seen that. I have no issues with the CPU playcalling from a defensive standpoint.

The problems come into play on the offensive side of the ball. A couple nights ago with the CPU leading with under two minutes to go they were throwing the ball. We all know about the lack of deep ball as well. Those are MAJOR errors IMO.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by mike1409

I will take heat from people on this but from a company standard this makes perfect sense. Only 5% of the people who play this game are hardcore SIM dynasty players. The rest want to win 110-0 win 9 Heismans in a row and 50 game winning streaks. ( the features above don't matter) and will buy the next years game without hesitation. Other players only play online ( the features above don't matter) these people have to buy the game each year as the old one can't be played anymore. Obviously the adaptive AI is the hardest to program and would take countless hours to fix and adjust. They have an exclusive market an it really is not worth the cost to make the game signifigantly better.

I'm always curious why some folks are so into EA's business practices. Who cares what 95% of fans want. Why not speak about what you want. I think that 95% have a loud enough voice as is.

Quote: Originally Posted by Russell_SCEA

I disagree 150% Sean Bailey is about as hardcore as it gets. But cats like him don't get to make the last call. When we talked about the lack of pass rush in human vs. human games agaisnt spread offenses. He gave us those answers with a frown on his face. "Yeah its part of the wide open game play theme this year" You could tell he wasn't to happy about it at all just ask Rhombic or CDJ they where standing right next to me when we had that conversation. This was for NCAA though for Madden is was different if we found something wrong with the game he was more than willing to fix it. (Case in point they fixed the yellow zones in Madden )Had we been able to make that trip to Tiburon about two weeks earlier who things may be different. We continue to forget that guys like Sean, OMT, Ben, Phil and Ian have someone looking over their shoulder wearing a suit every year.

Does it make a difference where the disconnect is? It would be a shame for the developers to be here collecting all these suggestions just for the suits to decide none of it is necessary to sell the game.

Quote: Originally Posted by Undefeated

Defense calling their plays based on down and distance isn't a bad strategy. I tend to do the same thing. What's the complaint, exactly? And if anything, I seem to remember countless times in which the CPU's defense was more appropriate than not. Does anyone truly remember seeing a 4-4 or something against your five-wide just because it was a 3rd and 1? I don't.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

#2: The CPU defense does WAY more than just checking down and distance. In the conference call Sean never said anything of the sort...I think this was misquoted here. They don't know your play but they do know your formation and personnel to call their defensive play.

I haven't played this year's game, but is it like in year's past where despite coming out with 5-WR on 3 & 1, the defense comes out in a run defense as if they know you called a dive up the middle? And if you audible to a pass in this situation, all of a sudden, the defense audibles to a pass defense. Has this changed?

[therizing02]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

I haven't played this year's game, but is it like in year's past where despite coming out with 5-WR on 3 & 1, the defense comes out in a run defense as if they know you called a dive up the middle? And if you audible to a pass in this situation, all of a sudden, the defense audibles to a pass defense. Has this changed?

I honestly haven't seen this. It seems that more often than not the CPU matches up with the personnel that I have on the field regardless of the down and distance.