defense.

[GSW]

I dont feel liek what im doing on defense is what is actually affecting wether or not the computer makes a shot.

It really does just feel completly random.

I could have my hand up or tapping on the l trigger and they are still wetting j's pretty much whenever they want too.

there has to be a clearly described way to affect someones shot in this game.

[Court_vision]

The D edits make a difference...but not enough to make it acceptable.

You really need to block a shot to have much effect.

On the permiter, you can effect things.

In the post...not really.

You can see a cpu scrub player get double teamed by Z and Ben Wallace...and still bank 80% of their shots.

Post D is terrible in this game.

This is what I meant when guys like you and Walker8 came across and said "Wow, this game is amazing"...once you play it a while, you see there's enormous holes in the game.

I've played all of the next gen LIVE's...06, 07, 08 and 09 and many of these problems have been there the whole time (rebounding,post D, lack of difference in teams game pace).

Saying that the game has huge flaws seems to be politically incorrect here at the moment though....

I'm enjoying the game...as I've said. Despite the flaws.

But there's massive holes that anyone with any idea about basketball and the NBA should be able to see after playing a while...

[Walker8]

Where am I coming across as saying the game is amazing? The problem I have is that people assume things and take things out of context. Read my post on this game because I think the first thing i said about it was it was fun, but i also wouldn't hesitate to say it sucks and that you'd think these developers could do better. Yeah I love the engine itself. It's farther along than 2k's engine and makes 2k basketball look dated in a lot of regards. that's just correct. Yes it has flaws and is rough around hte edges for sure. But anyone who takes one look at live and at 2k and can't see that doesn't know what they are talking about imo. Live has a newer engine than 2k does. 2k has been using the same engine for years and it is becoming dated. People are shifting this way for that reason. EA has made an effort to redo each engine in every one of their games the past couple of years. Some are farther along than others. Live is kind of the last game on the list apparently because Madden, NHL and Fifa are already becoming more refined. Live is still behind the curve and I wish they would catch up. Live is still a year or two away from really being a solid basketball game. But the future does look bright for this game.

The only thing that amazes me about this game is that there are aspects of it that are truly next gen. 2k hasn't made that same jump in a lot of regards. That's not saying EA isn't still behind the curve in other areas and this game doesn't have serious issues because it does. When playing this game and NCAA I feel like i'm playing a tech demo for the most part and not a basketball game because this game is far from complete.

[Court_vision]

Side note: put in PM's edits. They make the D better + double team and trap as much as you can. Even scrubs.

Also...I am pretty sure Steph or Beluba mentioned that the lack of post D was being addressed in the patch.

So...it may be fixed soon?

[Court_vision]

Quote: Originally Posted by Walker8

Where am I coming across as saying the game is amazing? The problem I have is that people assume things and take things out of context. Read my post on this game because I think the first thing i said about it was it was fun, but i also wouldn't hesitate to say it sucks and that you'd think these developers could do better. Yeah I love the engine itself. It's farther along than 2k's engine and makes 2k basketball look dated in a lot of regards. that's just correct. Yes it has flaws and is rough around hte edges for sure. But anyone who takes one look at live and at 2k and can't see that doesn't know what they are talking about imo. Live has a newer engine than 2k does. 2k has been using the same engine for years and it is becoming dated. People are shifting this way for that reason.

Okay, but you seemed to have decided LIVE was for you this season?

Side note: everyone is saying "LIVE feels like a new engine"...it is NOT a new engine.

I've played it since Live 06 on the 360...to Live 09 on the PS3...and it's the same engine. Many of the things like rebounding, lack of different game pace...all go back years. This engine is NOT new.

It's simply that many of you think it feels new as you've not played it for years...

I've heard people say the commentary is new also...it's YEARS old...Steve Kerr doesn't even commentate any more. Some of the comments are the exact same as Live 06/ 07.

[Walker8]

In 08 it seems to me like EA made a conscious effort to implement a new design. I know they did for Madden in 08. If you played 07, 08 is very different. 09 expanded on that. Obviously certain aspects of the game are going to be the same, but they overhauled their games in 08 imo. They have been aggresively expanding on that since. New Engine is a weird term because I dont mean what you think i mean. I just think they have overhauled their games of late and have done a ton of retooling. Live has kind of been the last game on the list. NHL is finally up to par. Madden is getting there and 09 was much improved but still has some work to do. Fifa is also pretty much up to par. Live is still a year or so away.

Anyways it's a silly argument but the only thing i was saying is that the direction this game is headed impresses me more than 2k right now. 2k as good as it is, is kind of old hat. If you look at the game and it has nothing to do with live being new to me or fresh, live is much more technically advanced in certain regards. look at the footplanting and the movements of the players and the animations. They are much more advanced than 2k. 2k is still skating around and if you look at the players they are using older technology. EA obviously purchased a motion engine that 2k does not have. I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of what we see in these games is purchased by EA. Thats why these problems linger is because they arent implementing it the way they can.

[Walker8]

All I'm saying is hte motion and physics engine in Live is clearly superior to 2k. That doesnt mean EA is using it correctly. it has nothing to do with the game being new to me. I'm looking at the game and you can tell that it has a superior physics engine.

[Court_vision]

The engine has potential. It's a few years old now, but it's moved along in a nice direction this year because Beluba, Steph and co. have been brought in.

That's why it's improved

The entire Live 07 team was sacked. Andrew the German guy who ran the old NLSC Live site was one of the leads. He was sacked, they all were sent packing.

The engine has potential...but it's about 3 years behind where it should be as they had the wrong people running the joint.

[Court_vision]

Back to GSW's questions re D...

I've put the edited players D up a bit more and it definitely feels 'tighter'.


I've just watched CPU Ben Wallace play some awesome post D ater boosting all his ratings...post D footwork, strength...

The edits really have an effect. It's amazing to think that EA didn't bother to touch them for years / left them the same as pervious seasons when a whole different team did the game so poorly. There's a hell of a game of basketball somewhere inside this thing...

With good player edits and a patch...it could be amazing.

[Pared]

Quote: Originally Posted by GSW

I dont feel liek what im doing on defense is what is actually affecting wether or not the computer makes a shot. It really does just feel completly random. I could have my hand up or tapping on the l trigger and they are still wetting j's pretty much whenever they want too. there has to be a clearly described way to affect someones shot in this game.

Nope. As Monk and I have said countless times, you begin to see these things the more time you put into the game...

But the "newness" that is here will trump the issues. Once the honeymoon is over...

But I'm more excited for next year than this year. The groundwork is finally there.