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Old 10-02-2013, 05:37 PM   #1
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NBA 2k14 Dribbling Questions and Tips

Hello everyone, if you remember last year I compiled multiple quotes from NBA 2k's senior gameplay designer mike wang. IF you have questions such as How to get explosive launches, how to do a certain move or any dribbling related question regarding NBA 2k14 current gen, Leave them below.

Edit:Also if you know a answer, feel free to share it. As my hope for this thread would be reference thread where OSers can come back to and use them to help their game.

Edit #2 I'll be updating all responses from beluba below.

Q by Vni: About not being able to choose which hand to finish at the rim with.
A:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
Sort of both. The way we originally had it working, the shooter would try to find a layup as close to the direction the RS was held... so essentially, doing what you're asking for (letting you pick the finish direction.)

But in our play tests, a great number of people pushed toward the basket to get a regular layup, expecting the shooter to automatically avoid defenders. The problem is, most people are inaccurate with their stick throws, so even though they thought they were pushing slightly to the left of the rim to finish on that side, they were actually aiming toward the right and putting the ball right into the defense. So my shot system engineer spent a great deal of time working on shot selection algorithms to pick the best layup given the shooter's drive angle and defender proximity. This work greatly benefited shot button users btw. So after much back and forth, we made the decision to use the auto-shot selection code instead of the literal follow the stick method. In 5-on-5 gameplay, we just found that it was beneficial to more users.

Having said that, I'm working with my engineer to try and bring the finish hand selection back. It will definitely be there in the NextGen version and hopefully make it into the current gen patch as well.
Questions regarding how to Spin layup, Do half spins and Cross spins Answered below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
Someone asked about spin layups in a different thread. To pull them off, drive toward the hoop, throw the RS toward the player's ball hand then quickly spin the stick around the player's back and keep it held (don't return to neutral first.) Your player will start a dribble spin move and then branch into a spinning layup.

Someone else asked about half spins. They're really easy this year. Throw the RS toward the player's ball hand and then twirl the stick toward the basket and let go.

Cross spins and Cross half-spins are simple as well. For a cross spin, throw the RS toward the player's offhand (like you would for a crossover), then quickly twirl the RS around the player's back then let go. For a cross half-spin, throw the RS toward the player's offhand then roll it toward the hoop and let go.
Beluba, how do you do Jamaal Crawford's signature layup?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
A word on these since I've seen it asked a few times. The layup(s) you see in the preview window on the signature edit/create player tab are just representative anims. Each layup package contains dozens of different layups, they are just not displayed. So to do Jamaal Crawford's hop step layup, you have to find the spot on the floor where it's valid (around the free throw line) and attempt a hop step layup. Same with Monta's spinning reverses. If you do reverse layups in traffic with Monta, you'll eventually see it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjam
and what about the kyrie shamgod move?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
They weren't ready for current gen... I'm going to get them into NG though.

Answers if you can throw Alley Oops with 2k13 control settings and Why you should stick with the NEW controls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
Alley-oops cannot be triggered when you switch Pro Stick control to 2k13 settings. It's an issue that we will need to address in a patch. Sorry.

For those who have decided to switch back to last year's Pro Stick controls, my advice would be to give the default controls a chance. We'll try to keep supporting the legacy controls but I can't promise they'll be around forever.
This is Regarding Next Gen Footage shown in the "TV Spot"(taken from a different thread) and I'm posting this regarding Player Models and Next Gen Graphics, But keep the questions on CURRENT Gen NBA 2k14 Please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
Footage is from an older build. Durant's model is absolutely perfect now. And I mean spot on. It's amazing how much more it feels like Durant with the new model.
How to do Shimmy shots
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
Shimmy shots are RT+RS away left or right. You have to hold the shot stick not Left stick.
Q: What Happened to signature gather shots?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
Sig gathers from 13 are gone. Instead of playing out canned dribble to shot sequences, I wanted users to be able to chain moves and shots together to have the freedom to create those types of gathers on their own. I'd have to go back and look at the animations from last year, but I'm pretty sure you can do nearly the exact same things this year by chaining certain things together.

For example, one of them started with a behind the back launch from a stand. This year, you do that by starting a standing behind the back move and then immediately moving the Left Stick toward the off hand. Instead of playing a normal behind the back sizeup dribble, he'll do a behind the back launch. There are a lot of break out points within the various iso moves that allow you to create very different looking outcomes. The Left Stick and Right Stick work together that way.
Does the adaptive AI also apply to dribbling moves, as I see the cpu defender don't bit as nearly as much as they used to in nba 2k13.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
Yes, the AI learns move patterns and attempts to counter them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by richmo
Not necessarily a "dribbling" question but moreso from a control aspect, was Toatl Control taken out of the game? For example, the ability to hold down a players' icon and control him until you release the button?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
Yes. it's gone. It broke very badly somewhere along the way so we decided to put it to rest.

hey, Beluba.
why was the hopstep/eurostep button removed? in 2k13 i liked using the hopstep button on the perimeter to create space and branch into jumpshots...but now that's impossible since you can only do hopsteps in the paint while driving. seems like an odd choice to remove the button because it removes control of perimeter hops and forces you to cram too much into the pro stick leading to high occurance of accidental eurosteps when using the RS. if there were a separate hopstep/eurostep button, holding the RS left or right could've provided more layup control (handedness of layup). the pick control from 2k13 was fine, so i don't know why it needed its own button. I always thought it made more sense to have a separate hopstep button (because you can't accidentally trigger a hop/euro when you just wanted a regular layup...like i mentioned above, a separate button would also allow room for more layup control with the RS)...every other year when the hopstep button is removed i'm baffled as to why.

The hop step button on the perimeter to create space was essentially replaced by the new Escape crossover and hesitation moves, and standing stepback. Strictly from an animation standpoint, the new escape crosses and hesis effectively do the same thing that the standing hop steps (1-step pullups) used to do but also keep your dribble live. It was a matter of redundancy.

The shot button doubles as a hop step button this year. If you're driving, keep the LS deflected (in any direction) and tap the Shot Button. These are all the same types of hops you could do in 2k13, including stepback hops. Hop Step layups can also be done on the Pro Stick by holding Turbo, and holding the Pro Stick left or right.

I'm working on bringing layup left/right control back.




Quote:
also, what's up with the turbo trigger? it seems like my player doesn't speed up when i press it, or he'll only speed up in certain contextual situations rather than at my command...for example: i'll be moving to the right with the left stick, then i'll hit the sprint trigger, but he won't speed up...then maybe 3 seconds later he will speed up, but it wasn't when i pressed the trigger...it's like he just decided to speed up on his own rather than when i pressed the trigger. player speed almost seems automatic/contextual and not controllable
.

If sprints seem delayed, it's usually because the dribbler needs to build up enough momentum before taking off. Otherwise, you get unrealistic speed bursts. Either that or I screwed something up.


Quote:
explosive launches from 2k13 seem to be mostly gone as well. when i want to explode forward around a pick, out of the triple threat, or off a crossover...the explosive speed of the launches from 2k13 just isn't there. was the speed of these launches deemed unrealistic?
The most explosive launches are off of sizeup moves. Try doing a quick hes or cross before driving. Many of the launches were slowed down a bit to help the onball defender stay in front of the ball handler. For much of the dev cycle, it was blowby city and not very fun for onball defenders.


Quote:
also, why was regular right stick passing removed? (R1 + RS towards desired teammate). i know flashy passes are there with RS, but what if we want to use RS to just do normal passes like in 2k13? i can't think of any reason why it was removed since it wouldn't seem to conflict with any of the new controls
.

It was a code conflict moreso than a design conflict. We may bring the functionality back. Although now I'm leaning toward making Pro Stick passes just be "normal" passes with flashy passes either being contextual or triggered by holding both triggers. Not sure about that one.


Quote:
are euros AWAY-left/right? or just left/right? because in training camp it says it's just left/right of the basket.

2k13 had a "best play available" option, didn't it? wasn't that the same thing as smart play? i think it was just one more button press.

anyway, i'm fine with things staying the way they are as long as you can still get that layup direction thing working. i figured having eurostep on RS might prevent adding layup direction, but seems like you've got it figured out.

i wouldn't mind eurostep being double tap on shot button, but ONLY if it didn't add an extra delay to the shot button responsiveness when shooting...i'm not sure how much delay is caused by adding double taps and taps to a button. if it would add a delay, then it probably wouldn't be worth it since shot button responsiveness is pretty important. you would also have to make sure that if you trigger a eurostep with the double tap, the player wouldn't attempt a second eurostep after that if you move RS left or right...there would have to be a special case where directly following a double tap eurostep, moving RS left/right would initiate a layup instead of another eurostep (or you'd risk being called for traveling and it would defeat the purpose of having the option of a double tap euro step)
Euros are supposed to be away left/right. Training camp is incorrect. Although it usually works just going left or right since the windows are so big. That won't be the case in NG though.

And yeah, any time you add double tap functionality, it effectively doubles the delay for everything on that button, even single press moves. We always try to avoid it for that reason. Even the difference between the detection of a button press compared to press and release (tap) is significant for most guys in the office. That's why Total Control Passing was an option instead of defaulted on and eventually why it saw its demise.

Quote:
i love the controls, but i still prefer a separate hop/euro button from 2k13. again my problem with the euros being exclusively on the stick is that in the heat of the moment you can sometimes accidentally trigger a euro when you just wanted a normal layup...or accidentally trigger a hopstep when you just wanted a dunk. having a separate button eliminates the possibility for those errors. i'm not sure why pick control needed to be mapped to the circle button. the new "pick button" requires the same amount of button presses as last year except you just hit circle first instead of L1. so what did the pick button really add?

how are you going to pull that off? with the "left" and "right" directions already controlling euros, it doesn't seem like there's room left on the right stick for layup control (another reason why a separate hop/euro button might help since it would free up some real estate on the stick).

Picks were moved to CIRCLE simply to accommodate 2K Smart Play. I wouldn't mind having a dedicated Hop button as well, but building the hops into the shot button seemed to work well for most everything. We could've put Euros (or the dreaded hop step spin) on double tap of the shot button but just opted not to.

As for left and right layups, I've just expanded the "normal" layup window. So pressing toward the hoop will still auto-select the best layup, but left and right will control left/right hand. Euro layups are still away left/right, just a bit smaller window. This will be on NG, and hopefully a patch.


Quote:
thank you for your control clarification. It helps a lot.

I've have two questions regarding control scheme in future versions:
- Why programming a logic which calculates a type of pass being thrown (bounce pass, flashy pass, chest bullet pass, lob) when we can let the user to decide which type of pass he wants to throw. Why not extend the direction you took, when you introduced bounce pass with LT + Pass? Why don't you implement for example double tap pass button for lob, one tap for chest pass, LT+pass flashy pass (or alley-up), LT+double tap pass for flashy? And then the logic calculates context of this pass and determines a successful frequency of pass?
- Let's say you keep pro-stick in future versions. Is it possible to remove all crossovers from left stick and let the right stick to handle all ISO moves?

Thank you for your answers.

P.S.: please overhaul plays an playbooks in future version (and association also )
We have a full design for user-controlled pass selection, it just didn't make the cut for 2K14. It will be in eventually and it will be nice.

Pretty much all crossovers are gone from the left stick already except for the most basic crosses that keep the ball in the proper hand. Are you saying the dribbler should never auto-cross to keep the ball away from defenders? Cause I'm not sure everyone would agree with that philosophy.

Sundown & Beluba discussion lol

Sundown:
Quote:
That sounds fantastic. Regarding inaccurate stick throws, would it help to have the stick have a bit of a deadzone, so that deflection towards the slight left/right of the basket leads to the use of the auto-shot selection code, and more explicit displacement of the stick leads to a forced left/right handed layup?
Beluba:
Quote:
Yep. that's what I have working right now for NG(Next Gen).
Sundown:
Quote:
Would it be possible to bring back manual reverse dunk as well (we don't really need RS-back *and* RT+RS-back for runners).
Beluba:
Quote:
Looking into that right now. Can't promise that it'll happen this year though. It's actually a pretty involved change.
Sundown:
Quote:
I'm also curious about the philosophy behind changing the euro-step controls. Is RS-left/right layup now meant to be thought of as a general sidestep-avoidance layup which might not always be an explicit euro-step? It seems that not every side-layup triggered results in the classic Manu-Wade-Harden euro-step with huge side-steps, but might trigger other avoidance layups with appropriate ball protection moves on the way to the hole.

If the change was made so that you still control when to do a side-step avoidance layup, but without having classic euro-step layups trigger for inappropriate players, that actually makes a lot of sense.
Beluba:
Quote:
In a nutshell, yes, the euro layup is sort of morphing into a side step layup. Reason being, most classic euro step layups start really far from the basket. Most players tend to trigger their layups a bit later so we either had to capture super tight euro layups (which looked dumb) or allow people to jump into the euros later (which is what you're seeing in 2k14.) And since we introduced the ability to shoot out of a moving fake pass, you can essentially force a classic euro step layup that way as well.

Speaking of euros, the James Harden layup package has some really nice ones in it.
Sundown:
Quote:
Please don't get rid of manual flashy passes.

I do like that many of the flashy passes are only a little flashy but are actually the right, skillful pass to make in that situation. I was expecting unnecessary behind the backs all over the place.

Tested the euro-step layup system last night and I have to say I love how long large-step euros, shorter euros, and hop side-step layups have been merged into one context sensitive package and which you get is based on distance. It's totally intuitive because you tend throw the stick in the direction you want to go to get around the defender, and it triggers one fake step in the other direction first.

Once we get layup-handedness back, we'll have total control over which direction we finish and with what footwork -- standard, hopstep, or sidestep -- with extremely streamlined controls.


I think basic crossovers have to stay on the left stick. A quick cross is the most natural way to change directions.

Speaking of ISO moves on the LS, I've always thought that spin moves should be on LS--since you're literally spinning your player, and behind-the-back dribble should be the same half-circle move but on the RS-- since RS controls dribbling and you're bringing your arm behind your back.

It would also open up RS-back to map to a new move.

But that would conflict with the current spin shot and wouldn't allow you to enter it with one spin-and-hold move. You'd have to spin your player with the LS and shoot with the RS. Spin shot also has a hitch in it this year that I'd rather not see.


One thing I don't like about the new standing stepback (RT+RS-back) is that the animation breaks and interrupts prematurely if you enter into a shot before it's done. It looks a bit ugly and I would have liked to see the step animation finish to get the full separation before seamlessly going into the shot. That way, I can step-back, queue the shot, and shoot in one smooth motion, sort of like how step back shots animated last year.

As is, I have to time when to enter my shot during a step-back so as not have my player jerk out of the animation mid-stride when shooting. Sometimes I mistime and break the step back, and sometimes I'm late and don't get the shot off immediately after the step
Beluba:
Quote:
This is fantastic feedback, sundown. I like what you're suggesting for putting spins on the LS. I wonder how well that change would go over with the masses. And yeah, the hitch in spin shots bothers me too. We're going to re-visit the branching tech for spin shots next year.

I'll look into the step back to shot branching right now. Should be an easy fix
.
Sundown:
Quote:
I actually love that picks are on B/CIRCLE now. It's completely consistent with what B/CIRCLE does on off-ball offense-- you set a pick. On-ball, it now *calls* for a pick. Makes perfect sense.

That sounds perfect.

An idea came as a result of the new controls-- now that LT is a pass modifier: LT-A is bounce pass, LT-X is alley-oop, LT-RS is flashy pass, seems like LT-Y would be the perfect mapping for manual lob pass:

1. Y has been the post up button for a few years. It's easy to associate LT-Y as the command to pass to someone in the post.

2. Y is also the jump button, which we usually remember by its placement on the face button diamond. It's easy to associate LT-Y as a pass upwards.

3. Finally LT-Y mirrors LT-A perfectly. LT-A is a bounce pass directed at the ground, and coincidentally uses the bottom-most button of the face buttons. LT-Y as a lob-pass into the air would be consistent with that mnemonic, with Y being the topmost button.

We've been asking for lob passes for years, and suggestions on how to fit it into the existing control scheme have always been awkward. In the new scheme, lob passes seem to have an open and perfect spot waiting to be mapped to.
Beluba:
Quote:
keep 'em coming, sundown. love your ideas.
Sundown:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundown
I'm guessing the New vs. Current controls look something like this:

Beluba:
Exactly like that. In fact, I wanted a diagram like that put in the manual.

Closing Question and Answer( I guess)

Quote:
Oh okay, again thank you beluba for taking time out of your very busy day, and I personally wanted to ask you three questions regarding dribbling.

With some moves I notice I'm not exploding into a launch(maybe i missed the launch window) but the ball handler will go into a jog, and this happens when I want to launch with the hand the ball is in, crossover launches are fine tho. Is it something I'm doing or is the job a new launch as I did a crossover out of it. I know this sounds confusing.

Also How many dribbling moves are in the game this is something I always wondered.

And I guess I'll ask this same question again this year are you happy with the new dribbling system? I am lol.
It's hard to say without being able to see the exact move (animation) you're doing and what you're doing on the sticks. One thing that's a bit different from last year, I now require you to hold Turbo in order to get a hard launch from all standing sizeup moves... whereas last year, in some of them you just had to move the LS. Maybe you're not holding turbo or holding turbo too late? You gotta make sure turbo is held before you deflect the LS.

A little over 400.

Happy with the dribbling system? I'm never happy. Happier though.


Once again Thank you Mr.Wang and I know you're working your tail off on NEXT GEN NBA 2k14, and if you ever need anyone to play it for you everyone once in a while you can always message me

Also Sundown, great example of giving a dev positive and productive feedback, without personal insults, we here at operationsports have a privilege of being side by side with developers, even if they don't post we know they are looking into the forums, listening to crazy bearded men radio shows on fridays . Please if you want youre voice to be heard use the example sundown showed and give positive feedback.

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Last edited by jersez; 10-06-2013 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:42 PM   #2
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Re: NBA 2k14's Dribbling questions

It's not dribbling related, but if you could tell me how to throw an alley oop with the isomotion/shot controls that would help me and a lot of other people who use this control scheme.
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:43 PM   #3
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Re: NBA 2k14's Dribbling questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by jersez
Hello everyone, if you remember last year I compiled multiple quotes from NBA 2k's senior gameplay designer mike wang. IF you have questions such as How to get explosive launches, how to do a certain move or any dribbling related question regarding NBA 2k14 current gen, Leave them below.

Edit:Also if you know a answer, feel free to share it. As my hope for this thread would be reference thread where OSers can come back to and use them to help their game.
I tend to dribble out front while a play us developing like a shark. I keep moving to prevent the defense from stripping me. Any tips on dribbling while waiting on plays to play out with an average dribbler being guarded by a guy like Chris Paul?
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:06 PM   #4
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Re: NBA 2k14's Dribbling questions

Use Y to backdown to create some space, also use hesitation move and change of pace dribbles.

Some people don't slow the game down and wonder why they are losing the ball - it is rewarded running plays because most defenders will come up and hound you while the teammate is coming off solid screens/movements. It's noice.
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:18 PM   #5
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Re: NBA 2k14's Dribbling questions

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Originally Posted by LD2k
Use Y to backdown to create some space, also use hesitation move and change of pace dribbles.

Some people don't slow the game down and wonder why they are losing the ball - it is rewarded running plays because most defenders will come up and hound you while the teammate is coming off solid screens/movements. It's noice.
Yes the protect dribble comes in handy.
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:18 PM   #6
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Re: NBA 2k14's Dribbling questions

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Originally Posted by HasheemTheDream
It's not dribbling related, but if you could tell me how to throw an alley oop with the isomotion/shot controls that would help me and a lot of other people who use this control scheme.
is that like the 2k13's control scheme? I think it's the same way as last year, if not it's LT or L2 and x for alley oops for the new control scheme.
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:21 PM   #7
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Re: NBA 2k14's Dribbling questions

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Originally Posted by jersez
is that like the 2k13's control scheme? I think it's the same way as last year, if not it's LT or L2 and x for alley oops for the new control scheme.
Yeah it's 2k13's scheme. L2 and x triggers a bounce pass like last year, but x and square does a fake pass now.
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:21 PM   #8
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Re: NBA 2k14's Dribbling questions

It's just important to have your handles right in 2k, for late game situations and if I'm going against someone who plays off-ball D, I'm force to play the cpu and need to know how to get past the CPU. That's an example I have the system down now, and I'm loving it, I'm trying to understand the system a little bit better, like the windows for explosives launches, new combos and branching etc.
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:23 PM   #9
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Re: NBA 2k14's Dribbling questions

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Originally Posted by HasheemTheDream
Yeah it's 2k13's scheme. L2 and x triggers a bounce pass like last year, but x and square does a fake pass now.
Try L2 and A or X on the Ps3. I'm going to boot the game up and see if I can confirm it, this is just a guess.
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:31 PM   #10
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Re: NBA 2k14's Dribbling questions

Alley-oops cannot be triggered when you switch Pro Stick control to 2k13 settings. It's an issue that we will need to address in a patch. Sorry.

For those who have decided to switch back to last year's Pro Stick controls, my advice would be to give the default controls a chance. We'll try to keep supporting the legacy controls but I can't promise they'll be around forever.
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