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JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

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Old 08-31-2013, 03:45 PM   #451
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JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ataman5
Yea it will depend NBA 2k14 totally.

I'm a great fan of J's work on sliders, kept with what he has in store all year long with 2k13, it was really good. Thanks for this great work again J.

But until recently i've been thinking why i keep choosing the difficulty level at HOF. As i was thinking lately i've seen in one of Czar's tweet that what do you think about difficulty levels, we've come to conclusion that as the difficulty arise, the game and the cpu get cheesy even on user vs user.

Because at HOF difficulty everything has to be static, close to perfection but once you get to hang of that perfection you get stale, i don't know if i can really transmit what i want to, with the words, but hopefully you get me. So as it gets stale you again get organic feel out in which you're looking in a sim game. It gets robotic.

Finally i've come to believe that i'll be on -all star- difficulty which the game developpers build the game on. And then maybe modify over that with NBA 2K14 Online Association.

So I would like to see J to establish on All-Star difficulty level as well.

Hopefully you guys get my point.
Yeah I know what you mean. I don't think its really necessary to play HOF mode except between users.

Playing different users is the best because you never know what you might expect them to do unless you played the same user all of the time. Then you would. And that would be just like playing the CPU all of the time. We'd feel the same way.

I think HOF mode is best used to learn to play defense and make good decisions. Once you got that down - you're good.

The best thing 2K could do is give us an association where we can have two sets of sliders. One for user vs user and one for user vs CPU.

Edit: i meant difficulty levels.
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Old 09-02-2013, 03:05 PM   #452
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

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The main difference was I had to get Hibbert more involved in the game with your sliders and Granger was shut down and because of your settings. The other thing I noticed is that iif you miss a shot, you aren't penalized if it's a bad one because the CPU doesn't run like it does on sim sliders. Usually it's tough to get Hibbert going against the Spurs because they are tough in there. But my guess is that the settings which brought more help and the fact that fatigue was slightly less helped out with Hibbert. In any case it was an inside affair.

Yeah that is the first thing I notice when comparing stats. How was the inside game in your practice game where you lost by 4?

Since you are a Pacer only player, I would recommend the shooting sliders to be tweaked (as imo they are the most personal things one can edit) cause everyone has a different skill level, you are more advanced with the Pacers.

I personally am not a stat-whore, but try and go for the best game play flow instead, to me if it doesn't look/feel/play like the NBA then I am doing something wrong.

Overall observations:

1. I felt the CPU hit more contested threes using your sliders in my practice game. In my "official game" I was prepared for that. On defense, I didn't change any settings, I was all auto and coaches default. I changed no coaching settings. I just made sure I defended those guys who would hit threes and that helped. But I did think contested shots as a whole went in more than usual but that's a feeling not a fact or anything considering the shooting percentage was under 50 percent for the game.

2. The defense was in my face the whole game making perimeter play alot tighter and open shots harder to come by. Iso and getting to the rim is a challenge.

3. Help defense was pretty obvious but since it came easy that made it easier to get buckets in the paint even though the paint was pretty locked down. Personally I think help comes to strong with the goal I suspect to keep you out of the paint. It could be just the Spurs since they defend well anyway but it reminded me of how players jack with their help and guys come flying over.

4. Even though fouls were increased in the sliders, I didn't get as many trips to the line as I thought I might considering I went to the line a lot in sim slider game.. Noticed this too, suprised by that... how was it in the practice game? Seems like you played one hell of a game. Hibbs killed it and you dominated the post. The Pacers imo are one of those video game teams, Hibbert = Post dominace on OFF/DEF (w/ the right user), Granger is all around, George for a 2 is a BEAST, West is AS caliber, Hill is solid, to me, the PACERS in 2K are beastly as they are in real life, they are in the top 5.

5. It's probably my coaching sliders by my help doesn't come like the CPU Spurs does with the change in your sliders. Coaching sliders for the CPU have nothing to do with the sliders, shoot we don't even know if the CPU adjusts the coaching sliders during gameplay.

6. I thought the pass accuracy increase helped me get in the paint easier since my guys aren't accurate sometimes anyway. But it didn't change the turnover problem I have with the Pacers. Pass accuracy is raised to allow for quicker ball movement, hands are raised in order to try and give the CPU/USER the ability to get at the passes (especially within the painted areas).

7. The CPU certainly doesn't fast break like I'm used to and it's still difficult for me to run on either set of sliders. I noticed everyone was already back always. This seems to be hardcoded into the game, probably to reduce the amount of fastbreaks overall by 2K.

The CPU still does that attack the basket until it gets space when it gets in trouble (almost like users do) but that is not as much of a problem with your sliders and I still had my fair share of HOF CPU cheese. Yep, it is still a video game that is not perfect, CPU still too many times ends up dribbling too much and trying to dribble move thru the defense instead of looking for a better option.

My conclusion at the end of my experiment is that realistic stats are more of a conscious decision to some degree (as opposed to slider adjustments) in play style and how well one can execute their game plan. So difficulty probably matters more than slider adjustments but that's just my take. Meaning that if a realistic box score is your goal, lower difficulty levels might make that easier to obtain until you good enough to do it at higher levels. Based on my best guess, pro on sim slider probably makes that the easiest vs the CPU. Agreed to an extent, but looking at the two boxscores and stats, the game w/ my sliders produced a more 'realistic' looking outcome 117-101 instead of 135-134, there were also less shots overall w/ mine. Fouls were too low, but that is probably due to you being a good player w/ the Pacers, how were the fouls in the practice game?

To me the practice game is a better indicator as it was raw and you did not gameplan for the CPU. Now after playing the CPU with a gameplan, I would only recommend tweaks to the set to make it a bit harder (again since you are good with IND).


Overall, I'm sure you've done comparisons and none of these results is news to you.

Good work on the sliders. While I won't be adopting them (because I'm on a different mission here with a different philosophy) I did want to try them out and I truly appreciate your passion for the game and the value you add to the forums. Gracias amigo, I enjoyed your review thoroughly.

EDIT: I wasn't entirely sure if the sliders were meant for CPU play and used the ones at the beginning of the thread. Yes they are, I originaly sought out a set for people to plug into OAs and be able to get a good gameplay flow, which in my test OA, we all had good games. In naturally (here on OS) turned into CPU play and this is where it is now.
Thanks again for the review of the set.
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Old 09-02-2013, 03:18 PM   #453
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ataman5
Yea it will depend NBA 2k14 totally.

I'm a great fan of J's work on sliders, kept with what he has in store all year long with 2k13, it was really good. Thanks for this great work again J.

But until recently i've been thinking why i keep choosing the difficulty level at HOF. As i was thinking lately i've seen in one of Czar's tweet that what do you think about difficulty levels, we've come to conclusion that as the difficulty arise, the game and the cpu get cheesy even on user vs user.

Because at HOF difficulty everything has to be static, close to perfection but once you get to hang of that perfection you get stale, i don't know if i can really transmit what i want to, with the words, but hopefully you get me. So as it gets stale you again get organic feel out in which you're looking in a sim game. It gets robotic.

Finally i've come to believe that i'll be on -all star- difficulty which the game developers build the game on. And then maybe modify over that with NBA 2K14 Online Association.

So I would like to see J to establish on All-Star difficulty level as well.


Hopefully you guys get my point.
1st bold - Here is why I go with HOF mode, it has the smallest USER windows, if you are good here, then you're gravy, as you will have perfect timing. The CPU on HOF is CHEESY BS until you negate the background boosts, then its no different than playing another USER except the CPU timing is perfect, unfortunately the CPU logic is not perfect.

So it comes back down to me as the perfect training tool for online play, cause we all know that is where the REAL DEAL is. Playing against another USER is the only way to truly play IMHO.

2nd bold - They build for this diff. level as that is probably were most people play at. Also ONLINE play be default is set to this level, so really what you see out of quick play is the type of gameplay you will be setting yourself up for if you play an OA on AS level, cause to me the timing windows are just too BIG, and what will happen with a group of skilled 2Kers is everyone will be shooting 50%+ if not higher. Unless you lower the shooting success sliders way down, which then your getting into the territory of hindering the offense, (ie; easy shots clanging just to keep %s down), imo.

You'll start to see morphing issues as both USERS time things right (due to wide windows) and the game having to force something to happen on one side of the ball. (Not saying that cant happen on HOF, just that the chances of that happening on HOF are smaller, due to being harder to get perfect timings, much less both USERS getting perfect timing at the same time).

For 14, I plan on doing a set for each difficultly level (except rookie).
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:08 PM   #454
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

^^
Appreciate the reply (i know you've been to vacation for w/e, hope it went great btw.) and i do agree with you about smallest user window at the highest level where you can really differentiate between players. But does this window apply to everything is the question i have atm.

Because instances like loosing your matchup, mixing on defense and leaving a guy all alone, and not being able to recover is happening all the time in NBA games but i don't see these on HOF.

As i've göne back to All-Star diff. with your SS slider btw, i had a lot of instances such as if i get the right play and right passes in freelance play i was able to find a guy all alone and have seen the cpu defense lost their matchups or i've seen more mismatches because i had good passes or transition offense, i really don't know, it could be just a placebo effect but i've really liked what i've seen, the blocks have happened a lot more, the shooting felt a bit easier but when i had a look at the stats i didn't see anything close %50. Overall i know that's user vs CPU but i've played with friends All-Star and Simulation sliders online that also felt different in ways that i told you above.

Just my two cents, i admire your great work.

PS: Recovery times were way more realistic, even spacing felt better. (These might all be bcs i wasn't playing for a long time and just started right away with this All-Star and your sliders idea.)
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:43 PM   #455
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonWilliams55
Thanks again for the review of the set.
Since I am pretty well honed on the HOF sim sliders, when I was looking at this, I thought it made sense to get a game in before I got serious.

Unfortunately I didn't keep the practice game.

The other thing that might have affected the test some is that over time, my play evolves and this game might have been at a slower pace even on the defensive end because I put way less pressure on Tony Parker playing him a step inside the 3 point line now instead of picking him up at 3/4 court trying to force the action.

I too was wondering if the CPU adjusted coaching sliders during the game. My best guess is that it does adjust either in defensive settings (most likely) or both the defensive setting and coaching sliders - at least the ones in the timeout area.

I personally leave everything on auto expecting my CPU teammates to adjust to my play without ever adjusting coaching sliders or defensive settings and that's probably what the CPU does when you play it only all five guys are on auto with defensive settings if that makes sense.

Good points.
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:50 AM   #456
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

Wow I haven't used these sliders in a long time and gave them a try again. It was nothing but cheese. All the CPU did was dish the ball in the paint and the CPU reaction time is way to fast in HOF. I quit after the 2qt because it felt like the same crap with the ball getting thrown in the paint so much. Also the fact that the CPU was on pace to have 100 shot attempts.
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:47 AM   #457
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

Quote:
Originally Posted by apollooff320
Wow I haven't used these sliders in a long time and gave them a try again. It was nothing but cheese. All the CPU did was dish the ball in the paint and the CPU reaction time is way to fast in HOF. I quit after the 2qt because it felt like the same crap with the ball getting thrown in the paint so much. Also the fact that the CPU was on pace to have 100 shot attempts.
Its the hardest setting, the CPU reaction time is supposed to be fast. TBH, I played a half game yesterday and did not have the same experience as this.
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:48 PM   #458
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

The CPU can close out on my 3pt shooters but I can't do that to the CPU without being in quick sand. That's an unfair advantage.
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:11 AM   #459
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

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Originally Posted by apollooff320
The CPU can close out on my 3pt shooters but I can't do that to the CPU without being in quick sand. That's an unfair advantage.
I would beg to differ... I plugged in JW's universal set last night only for the purpose of nailing shot release timing in HOF and was able to beat the pacers with the nets.

By no means am I a great player. Hell, it would be a stretch to say i'm average. What I will say though is that I had to play much more strategically than I had to at Pro/Sim level.

I too felt the "quicksand" effect you were talking about, but it was more along the lines of you had to be deliberate in your stick inputs to be effective.

I could no longer just spam the left or right stick or the L2 an R2 buttons to try and guard everybody. I realized I needed to let my cpu teammates do their job and not try to do it for them.

I would always switch on the pass to play OBD against the cpu. I found out quick after getting my doors blown off a few times that you need to let passes on the perimeter complete and let the man guarding set his position before you switch. If you don't you end up, in most cases, taking the man out of position. Once I did that, and played a little more off ball, to compensate for the tighter execution by the CPU on this level, I felt I could compete.

But I had to change HOW I palyed, no longer could I just dump the ball into the post the same way every time. Or set the same pick with the same player in the same spot every time. I needed to be creative in my offensive and defensive schemes. So much more than on Pro, on Pro I could drop it in the post the same way 10 times and it would work 8. I could run the same play over and over and it would work the majority of the time. This is not the case on HOF, or a least the one game I did play.

In the end it's a video game. Basketball is a game of runs, and the computer has to artificially reflect the ebb and flow of an organic game. It doesn't always do this gracefully. But, if you have a plan and execute it for the most part you can see your objectives being accomplished. And for a guy like me with limited stick skills this can be quite rewarding.

I will say that I felt fortunate to win on my first attempt at HOF level, sliders or not against the cpu. I also want to say to JW good job and thanks for all your efforts.

Peace,

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Old 09-12-2013, 06:10 AM   #460
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

Hi Jw55 I was wondering could u explain your thought Process behind the Attributes for 3.1 did u see anything that u consider realism with the numbers that u have inputted and also the Shot successes as well will that affect how much the shots goes in ? thank you

Last edited by merio1992; 09-12-2013 at 06:15 AM. Reason: j
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