OK...I Can't Hit These Daggum Changeups

[SaluteYourShorts21]

I was no-hit for 8 2/3 IPs in my franchise by AI controlled Josh Collmenter from AZ with an 88mph FB and 76mph Change (I immaturely raged quit with frustration). I try to wait for the change and it still gets me. I gear for the FB to time it and the change makes me look like a 5 year old at a T-ball game.

For the most part, I'm fairly decent at hitting as in 15 games of my franchise I'm 3rd in OBP, 4th in AVG and 2nd in runs. Even so, these bugs bunny changes keep getting me and like Elmer Fudd, I want to kill that rabbit!

This happens quite frequently as I just cannot discern a change is coming. Personally, I think the spin of the ball and how it comes out of the pitcher's hand needs work...but is that just me? Do I have shotty pitch recognition or should all of these pitcher's repoitoire be adjusted?

I'm sorry...I need help.

[mmorg]

Someone posted on this forum a few years ago that off-speed pitches look "heavy" coming out of the hand. That changed my whole "The Show" hitting career.

[crques]

Quote: Originally Posted by SaluteYourShorts21

I was no-hit for 8 2/3 IPs in my franchise by AI controlled Josh Collmenter from AZ with an 88mph FB and 76mph Change (I immaturely raged quit with frustration). I try to wait for the change and it still gets me. I gear for the FB to time it and the change makes me look like a 5 year old at a T-ball game. For the most part, I'm fairly decent at hitting as in 15 games of my franchise I'm 3rd in OBP, 4th in AVG and 2nd in runs. Even so, these bugs bunny changes keep getting me and like Elmer Fudd, I want to kill that rabbit! This happens quite frequently as I just cannot discern a change is coming. Personally, I think the spin of the ball and how it comes out of the pitcher's hand needs work...but is that just me? Do I have shotty pitch recognition or should all of these pitcher's repoitoire be adjusted? I'm sorry...I need help.

I feel your pain man. If I'm facing a pitcher with a decent changeup, pencil me in for at least 10-12 K's that game. It is frustrating.

[ILLICIT206]

Try using one of the two latest versions of the OSFM rosters. Version 3 has all the pitch edits and its my belief that the game is much better now due to the disparity between fastballs and changeups being more realistic. Out of the box most pitchers have a 10 MPH difference and its realistically more like 7-8. The pitch speeds are much more realistic in V3 and newer.

[SaluteYourShorts21]

I understand the logic with the roster changes but disagree with it to an extent...I mean it is realistic to have a 10mph change in your FB to change.

The issue I have is being able to see that from the pitchers hand. The break on a change should be more around arm speed and not far down in the zone it goes. If a player has a 90mph FB and 80mph change with 0 break, I still look foolish when in reality I should be able to see the arm slowing a bit to realize off-speed is coming.

[Geronimo22]

Collementer is a good deceptive pitcher. I faced him in my Padres franchise this weekend.

Here is my approach vs good fastball/change up guys :

1) Take more pitches the first time through the lineup - My goal is to make the pitcher throw a lot of pitches so I can have some good reference for step # 2.

2) Look for a tendencies for where he is throwing his pitches. (Use the pitch analysis screen for the answers). I'm looking to see how he pitches to righties/lefties, early in the count, behind, and ahead in the count. Early in the count is the most important the second time through the line-up because I want to be more aggressive the second time through.

Here's what I've seen so far this year :

Most common type of guy

Throws change-ups middle-low and low-away. Half of those pitches hit the black and half fall just outside of the zone. Next you will probably notice they throw the fastballs middle-up and up-in, most for strikes.

If I'm seeing this pattern, especially early in the count, my approach at the plate is to let the low pitch go (thinking change up/ball). and gear up and time up for pitches up in the zone (thinking fastball/strike).

The guys I love to face

Throws a lot of change-ups right down the middle of the plate. But he throws his fastball everywhere else but down the middle. He trying to trick you and make you think fastball down the middle.

If I'm seeing this pattern, especially early in the count, my approach at the plate is to sit back and wait for pitches down the middle and think to swing late when I see it (thinking change up/strike). The key is to stay patient throughout the at-bat and wait for that mistake. He is going to throw it once or twice to each guy!

The toughest guys to face

Throws the change-ups and fastballs off the same spot (location).

If I'm seeing this pattern, I check for patterns in sequence : Alternating fast/slow/fast/slow; Does he double up? (change followed by a change), Check for his behind in the count, ahead in the count, and full count tendencies (might find a pattern there). If you find a pattern, believe what you see and anticipate the pitch that SHOULD be coming

If all else fails and on 2 strike counts, my FINAL FALLBACK is think IN-BETWEEN. What I mean is to set your timing (bat speed to be right in the middle...) If he throws a 90 fastball and a 80 changeup, I think to time my bat speed to hit a 85 pitch. This way I can hit the fastball to the opposite field and pull the change up my pull field.

Sorry for the long read but hope this helps some.

[beantownbruins]

Here's what I would do if I were you. Take a pitcher that has a good changeup, Johnny Cueto for example. Go into edit player on the main menu and take out every other pitch he has, so you are left with only a changeup in his arsenal. Then go into practice mode. That way you get used to seeing what a changeup looks like out of the pitchers hand and you can get used to the speed of the pitch. Once you have the timing down in practice you should be fine.

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by ILLICIT206

Try using one of the two latest versions of the OSFM rosters. Version 3 has all the pitch edits and its my belief that the game is much better now due to the disparity between fastballs and changeups being more realistic. Out of the box most pitchers have a 10 MPH difference and its realistically more like 7-8. The pitch speeds are much more realistic in V3 and newer.

In this case there's nothing he can do about it since Collmenter threw an 87mph fastball and 76mph change last year, but yeah, in general changeups average around 7mph less than fastballs.

Quote: Originally Posted by SaluteYourShorts21

I understand the logic but the roster changes but disagree with it to an extent...I mean it is realistic to have a 10mph change in your FB to change. The issue I have is being able to see that from the pitchers hand. The break on a change should be more around arm speed and not far down in the zone it goes. If a player has a 90mph FB and 80mph change with 0 break, I still look foolish when in reality I should be able to see the arm slowing a bit to realize off-speed is coming.

Unfortunately the Show does not have distinguishable arm speeds for different pitches, but changeups do have a slight hump this year that is recognizable early enough to lay off a pitch down. Good pitchers keep the same arm speed and release point for all of their pitches anyway, it also is coincidental that Collmenter is particularly deceptive as well.

As far as the 10mph thing, there is a common misconception that a changeup is not effective unless it is at least 10mph slower than your fastball. That is simply not the case. The top three changeup pitchers (Hamels, Hernandez, Shields) have 7.09, 3.04, and 6.24 mph separations respectively.

[rymflaherty]

I had this issue really bad last year.....Despite playing the game a ton, I've never developed a great eye for recognizing pitches out of the hand, so here is the strategy I've developed to really help myself.

If I'm facing a pitcher like you described.
I really trained (sometimes force) my eye to stay in the upper 2/3's of the zone. If a pitch is coming lower or at the bottom of that zone where my eyes are I let it go.
If he's throwing a ton of Changeups that keeps you from swinging at those nasty changeups that go out of the strike zone that you have no chance at.
If it happens to be a fastball for a strike.....It's probably not a pitch you can do much with anyway, so no loss. And I'll try to stick with this unless I get to two strikes then obviously you have to open up the zone and protect a bit more.

Doing this has helped in a few ways.....
Laying off those changeups early can get you ahead in the count and get them back to the fastball.
Laying off and taking the changeups as balls also decreases confidence in the pitch, which means eventually they start throwing it less.
And if focusing middle-up in the zone....If they throw a changeup there, in that zone, even if you are out ahead it is a pitch that can be driven.

[sacbillsfan]

Quote: Originally Posted by SaluteYourShorts21

I understand the logic with the roster changes but disagree with it to an extent...I mean it is realistic to have a 10mph change in your FB to change. The issue I have is being able to see that from the pitchers hand. The break on a change should be more around arm speed and not far down in the zone it goes. If a player has a 90mph FB and 80mph change with 0 break, I still look foolish when in reality I should be able to see the arm slowing a bit to realize off-speed is coming.

A pitcher with a good changeup does not slow his arm speed down as that is the entire point of a changeup. A changeup is all about the hitter seeing fastball with regards to arm action, but because of the grip, there is added friction and the ball comes out slower. If the pitcher simply slowed his arm down that would just be a slower fastball. I think this game does a great job of replicating changeups.

Anyway, i had problems hitting the change too, but once I started taking more pitches I found more often than not (just as in real life) the changeup will finish out of the strike zone. Once the CPU throws a couple balls with it they won't use it as much because their confidence will drop, but once I swing and miss a few times the confidence goes way up and I will see at least 25% changeups until I somehow knock him out of the game. So, my advice would be to take a few more pitches in your at bats and see if I can't wait out the flurry of changeups.