Confidence needs to be revamped

[nemesis04]

[Vashyron.]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mike0ne

I'll give a recent example.. I was pitching a perfect game with Brandon Morrow, but going into the 7th, I had already thrown 90 pitches, and I decided I would rather take a shot at the perfect game than tire out in 8. So I started pitching to contact.. not even on the corners, just right down the pipe, fastballs and sliders only.. and watched the cpu dribble grounders to second and shallow pop flies to left for 2 innings.

This happens all the time, when I get high confidence, I just pitch right down the middle. It works online as well. Also, if all of your pitches but one have extremely low pitch confidence just throw that one pitch that actually has high confidence and you should be able to get out of any trouble, and then start building back your other pitches next inning.

---

I'll ask yet again, why is there no option to play with confidence off? If the confidence system does as little as the devs claim, then there is no reason to not have an option that allows you to play without any kind of confidence. There's an option to turn off pitch confidence, but it only turns off the visual pitch confidence bars and doesn't turn off pitch confidence. This option has been asked for years especially when pitcher confidence was so bad that your ace would need to see a psychologist after giving up a HR because it hurt his confidence so much. It's a feature that would literally take 5 minutes of a programmer's time if confidence works the way the devs are saying it works.

[Bobhead]

I'm not really trying to get involved in this circular argument, but Mike and Vash, you guys seem to be forgetting that individual Pitch Confidences exist. If your pitch confidence meter is full, of course you can get away with just throwing the pitch down the middle, because your chances of mis-executing the pitch are astronomically lower than they would be with an empty pitch confidence meter. Coincidentally, most of the things that contribute to a high overall pitcher confidence also contribute to a high confidence for a particular pitch.

[Knight165]

Quote: Originally Posted by nemesis04

Tell me about it!


"I know you are, but what am I?"
"I know you are, but what am I?"


M.K.
Knight165

[Jgainsey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mike0ne

Disappointing was the fact that you were too lazy to read even 10 posts before your reply, then used re-hashed arguments that had already been addressed. It's the equivalent of standing in a crowd and yelling "yeah!" whenever the the person you favor speaks, and convincing yourself that you're contributing. It's also the kind of post that turns a thoughtful and civil discussion into a typical internet flame war(speaking of frustrating things 1000's of guys do on message boards). On that note, I feel like I've been heard by the people that matter, and there isn't much left to discuss. I'm sure you've got an aggressively worded retort half written in your head. I'll allow you the last word, and excuse myself from this thread. Have at it.

Lol, you're excused..?

What is this, your first time on an internet message board?

You're probably just starting to pick up on this, but when there's an argument/discussion going on, other people tend to drop by and weigh in. I'm sorry my last reply didn't qualify as the most creative post of the year, but give me a freaking break. It's not like I quoted someone's post and slapped a "THIS!" on it. I'm sure if I had been on your side, you wouldn't have given two ****s about how "original" my comment was.

And yeah, you were heard by the people that matter... and then they told you how wrong you were.. you told them you didn't believe them.. and then they reassured you that you were in fact wrong.

Anyways, I guess that's the end of my aggressively worded retort. Although, I'll have you know that I'm above this sort of childish back and forth bickering. So please, allow me to excuse myself from this thread... until I change my mind.

[Vashyron.]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bobhead

I'm not really trying to get involved in this circular argument, but Mike and Vash, you guys seem to be forgetting that individual Pitch Confidences exist. If your pitch confidence meter is full, of course you can get away with just throwing the pitch down the middle, because your chances of mis-executing the pitch are astronomically lower than they would be with an empty pitch confidence meter. Coincidentally, most of the things that contribute to a high overall pitcher confidence also contribute to a high confidence for a particular pitch.

I don't think you can have high pitcher confidence w/o most of your pitches having high pitch confidence as well or it's very unlikely. Throwing a fastball down the middle is throwing a fastball down the middle, almost all execution on a straight fastball is all in the location. Now, a curveball can be thrown down the middle and be filthy or it could be a hanger. I don't think this game actually has the pitch physics to depict hangers, I know the higher you throw a breaking ball the less break it has, but hangers have 0 break. And, the way you build pitch confidence is flawed too. If you throw a ball with any pitch, the pitch confidence goes down. That is just plain stupid, throwing a great low curveball that the batter lays off doesn't cause a pitcher in real life to lose any feel for his curveball, if anything, it should give the pitcher more confidence since he just threw a good curveball. Or throwing a fastball that just misses the corner that the pitching is aiming for is only going to give the pitcher more confidence on his fastball.

[nomo17k]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vashyron.

I don't think you can have high pitcher confidence w/o most of your pitches having high pitch confidence as well or it's very unlikely. Throwing a fastball down the middle is throwing a fastball down the middle, almost all execution on a straight fastball is all in the location. Now, a curveball can be thrown down the middle and be filthy or it could be a hanger. I don't think this game actually has the pitch physics to depict hangers, I know the higher you throw a breaking ball the less break it has, but hangers have 0 break. And, the way you build pitch confidence is flawed too. If you throw a ball with any pitch, the pitch confidence goes down. That is just plain stupid, throwing a great low curveball that the batter lays off doesn't cause a pitcher in real life to lose any feel for his curveball, if anything, it should give the pitcher more confidence since he just threw a good curveball. Or throwing a fastball that just misses the corner that the pitching is aiming for is only going to give the pitcher more confidence on his fastball.

Indeed some of these issues have been discussed recently in this thread:

Pitcher confidence

[Yankees2009Champs]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vashyron.

I don't think you can have high pitcher confidence w/o most of your pitches having high pitch confidence as well or it's very unlikely. Throwing a fastball down the middle is throwing a fastball down the middle, almost all execution on a straight fastball is all in the location. Now, a curveball can be thrown down the middle and be filthy or it could be a hanger. I don't think this game actually has the pitch physics to depict hangers, I know the higher you throw a breaking ball the less break it has, but hangers have 0 break. And, the way you build pitch confidence is flawed too. If you throw a ball with any pitch, the pitch confidence goes down. That is just plain stupid, throwing a great low curveball that the batter lays off doesn't cause a pitcher in real life to lose any feel for his curveball, if anything, it should give the pitcher more confidence since he just threw a good curveball. Or throwing a fastball that just misses the corner that the pitching is aiming for is only going to give the pitcher more confidence on his fastball.

It really depends on the situation. If you are ahead (0-1, 0-2, 1-2) and you miss outside, I agree that you shouldn't lose confidence. Reason is you're trying to get him to expand his strike zone.

If you are behind (1-0, 2-0, 3-0, 2-1, 3-1) and you miss the zone you should lose confidence because the honus is on you to get a strike on him.

EDIT: If there is a check swing, it should be nuetral on confidence unless he checks and it's a strike.

[aktransplant007]

First example is Atl and Jurrjens pitching a complete game..I scored no runs and Braun was 1 for 3..he hit a solo-HR in the bottom of the 9th; therefore 2-4 in the game. If the hitters confidence vs pitchers confidence was accurate, the probability of hitting that HR in the 9th was very very low and possibly should not have happened, especially considering Braun's BA through the season so far; if I understand what is being stated.

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Second, I was being no-hit by Dempster through 5 2/3 innings..then I got a single with Betancourt (yes, I do sometimes bat the pitcher in the 8th spot)..his BA at that time was ~0.150-ish (can provide pic if I'm not believed)...I stole 2B while Morgan was up..then Morgan hit a single and scored Betancourt...the chance/probability that I could get 2 hits in a row would be extremely low as Dempster's confidence was high from no-hitting me...and should not have happened if there was a hitter confidence being effected, correct?

Weeks, then got the 3rd out. The next inning Braun (who was 0-2 and you can see the BB came from different P later in the game) hit a HR off Dempster. That's hitting 3 for 4 with hitters that were shut down and not hitting all that well overall...and technically 4-5 w/ Fielder's single after Braun hit the HR. I'm not stating definitive proof of anything, but these are a couple examples that definitely have me questioning the idea that there is a 'hitters confidence' (especially connected to P confidence) and that this effects hitting, scoring, etc at the end of a game.

MLB11 The Show_5.jpg

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[Yankees2009Champs]

Quote: Originally Posted by aktransplant007

I disagree with the constant request for some proof or back-up info that would always be available or showing what the issue(s) is/are. There are some instances where pics, replays, etc. show nothing of what happened or is happening...I will put up a post regarding this topic and two instances where the probability of a 'hitters confidence' is not supported with pictures, but know there are at least a couple instances where some video proof doesn't show anything relevant. I have seen several times now, the fly ball marker located against the OF wall, placed the OF player to catch the ball and the ball sails over the fence for a HR. The marker should technically be the HR-robbing / red marker if the ball was flying over, correct? On replay, the fly ball or HR-rob (red) marker does not show up...so how is one suppose to be able to show evidence of this?! Maybe this is programmed to have this happen or maybe it's a glitch..I know if I did the HR-robbing move against the wall, I had at least a chance to catch those...the same is with the fly ball marker against the wall in the OF and the player does not perform the animation to catch a ball that is within arms length...I can't show this because the fly ball marker does not show up in replay that I'm aware of..is there a way to do this? I stated in a thread (I believe the 'CPU decides game') that it appears on certain swings, the swing is late or very late and balls are pulled / physics do not appear to be correct, etc...I was called out as exagerating this...I had a game shortly after that where R-pitcher pitches to R-hitter...change-up and high outside the strike zone..I watched the ball go to the outside of the strike zone and the pitch break down and about at completion before the player started his swing....that appeared late or very late to me watching this happen...but the replay shows the bat making contact in reasonable time (and faster than a late swing)...the L3 info stated "Early"..and the ball was pulled down the LF line foul and into the stands. I have a pic of the screen and replay to show the swing/result of the play...This is not something I see all the time and didn't even notice the past couple versions of the game if it was there...but definitely no way to have 'proof' or evidence this happend or can happen. The same post, I stated something about a pitch far from the PCI (upper left corner and fastball to the low right corner (R vs. R) and using Zone hitting)..Ramone, I believe replied (much appreciated BTW and thank you for the info) and stated there was an invisible foul zone outside the PCI..ok, but that example covers approx the entire strike zone and that seems kind of large for the area covered, expecially in Zone hitting..I didn't even think to save pic or video at the time (and not sure I knew how to at that time), just thought it was not a big deal at all...I now have a couple pics of other pitches that I swung at (example was CPU swinging) where the Timing was labeled (L3) as "Perfect" and the ball pretty close to touching the PCI and I didn't even foul the pitch off...again, those pics show/prove nothing and it doesn't really matter overall to me...and the Foul Ball slider is at 7 for myself and CPU (possibly at 8 at the most; which is a big difference for one position). Anyway, just wanted to state or show examples where replays, pics and such don't always show what's going on or what someone witnesses. I don't think it's reasonable to take pics of every pitch and video of everything throughout a game for the theories about a 'hitters confidence'...the next post with pics of games I recently played show the CPU dominating me from the start of the game and it's not hard to see what happened in the game overall and at the end.

With all due respect, why are you still at this? Here's what has happened. You opined something, people posted and said you were incorrect, developers posted that you were incorrect. It's completely alright for you to believe what you want to believe. However, with all the evidence supporting the other side of the argument, no one will believe it.

Some people have their views and there's nothing you can do to change that. And that's just the way it is. This will just keep going around and around and around. Kind of like that post earlier.

I hope you don't take this in a negative way but it's a steep uphill battle and it's one you can't win.