MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

[BJays1984]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

OK so I finally finished documenting every pitch of every pitcher who pitched last year, using Brooks Baseball as my source... These are edits based off of last year, with a few 2012 edits for pitchers who had substantial 2012 data available, added or subtracted a pitch, or are in the process of converting from reliever to starter or vice versa Here is the spreadsheet I created, it's in alphabetical order, but you can sort it by team name, etc. A quick primer: How did you come up with each pitch selection? I went through every pitcher on the list and cross-checked their repertoire using my own personal methods with Brook's classifications. I take into account speed, spin deflection, RPM, charts, and scouting reports. Why do most players' sliders have a low movement rating? What I found through in-game testing is that regardless of a pitch having a "0" movement rating, the pitch still moves. Most players' sliders move an average of 5 inches or less (most less), and high movement ratings for sliders should be reserved for guys with slow sweeping sliders. Also, movement is much more organic this year, with the pitcher's arm slot playing a significant role in determining movement direction. Why is every pitch faster than what is listed in gameday, fangraphs, texas leaguers, etc. ? Brooks Baseball calculates speed 55ft from home plate instead of 60ft to take in account the average major leaguer's release point. Feel free to lower mph 1-2 ticks for fastballs and 1 mph for offspeed. What about individual pitch command ratings? I have no idea how to come up with these ratings, its more complicated than strike% , I would just use SCEA's control ratings, since most edits are just to give proper movement to a pitch; if a pitch was added to a pitcher's repertoire, it was probably a 4th or 5th pitch that was not used very often, so give that pitch below average command to prevent overuse, since selection is tied to confidence which is tied to command of said pitch. I'm not sure how or if these will be incorporated into the game, but if need be, I might consider updating the OSFM with these edits, unless MAVS wants to do it instead lol

Great job on these! I did the same for the Blue Jays and that took me forever. I can't even imagine how long this took. It's much appreciated. One quick question, will these changes be made via a roster update to the OSFM set or is this just general info for individuals looking to make their own edits?

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jason_19

Thank you for this. Do you have a link to this? I looked on their site and ran an internet search, but I couldn't find anything.

Here's the f/x data I pulled from Fangraphs,

If you want to pull your own data, go to the 2011 pitching leaders and set your parameters (IP, year, etc.)

There should be a clickable link that says export data right above the page number, export charts for selection%, velocity, H-movement, V-movement, etc. - you can then combine them into 1 spreadsheet in excel

Keep in mind these are gameday classifications, and its damn hard to interpret the data unless you know exactly how much a ball with no spin drops because of gravity lol

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by BJays1984

Great job on these! I did the same for the Blue Jays and that took me forever. I can't even imagine how long this took. It's much appreciated. One quick question, will these changes be made via a roster update to the OSFM set or is this just general info for individuals looking to make their own edits?

Not a clue, I think the original purpose of this thread was for SCEA to incorporate edits into an official roster update. Mavs also made a pitch edits spreadsheet, but I don't think he will personally incorporate it into the OSFM.

Speaking from last year's experience, unless no one else volunteers, I'd rather not be the one to incorporate the data into the OSFM because I spent literally the entire year tweaking data and pitch types (new data kept on coming out) and I didn't even get to play franchise mode with my final roster since '12 had already come out by the time I was finished.

I think my point is that I would take way too long and probably piss off a lot of people lol, I'm surprised I finished these in two weeks, I think I originally said I would finish in 1 day

[AUTiger1]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

OK so I finally finished documenting every pitch of every pitcher who pitched last year, using Brooks Baseball as my source... These are edits based off of last year, with a few 2012 edits for pitchers who had substantial 2012 data available, added or subtracted a pitch, or are in the process of converting from reliever to starter or vice versa Here is the spreadsheet I created, it's in alphabetical order, but you can sort it by team name, etc. A quick primer: How did you come up with each pitch selection? I went through every pitcher on the list and cross-checked their repertoire using my own personal methods with Brook's classifications. I take into account speed, spin deflection, RPM, charts, and scouting reports. Why do most players' sliders have a low movement rating? What I found through in-game testing is that regardless of a pitch having a "0" movement rating, the pitch still moves. Most players' sliders move an average of 5 inches or less (most less), and high movement ratings for sliders should be reserved for guys with slow sweeping sliders. Also, movement is much more organic this year, with the pitcher's arm slot playing a significant role in determining movement direction. Why is every pitch faster than what is listed in gameday, fangraphs, texas leaguers, etc. ? Brooks Baseball calculates speed 55ft from home plate instead of 60ft to take in account the average major leaguer's release point. Feel free to lower mph 1-2 ticks for fastballs and 1 mph for offspeed. What about individual pitch command ratings? I have no idea how to come up with these ratings, its more complicated than strike% , I would just use SCEA's control ratings, since most edits are just to give proper movement to a pitch; if a pitch was added to a pitcher's repertoire, it was probably a 4th or 5th pitch that was not used very often, so give that pitch below average command to prevent overuse, since selection is tied to confidence which is tied to command of said pitch. I'm not sure how or if these will be incorporated into the game, but if need be, I might consider updating the OSFM with these edits, unless MAVS wants to do it instead lol

Great job! Thanks! So glad you gave Minor a curveball since that is his primary breaking pitch. Can't believe SCEA didn't give him a curve. I mean I know according to the stats he threw slightly more sliders last season than curveballs but in 2010 he didn't even throw a slider. It was all curveball.

[Cavicchi]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

Not a clue, I think the original purpose of this thread was for SCEA to incorporate edits into an official roster update. Mavs also made a pitch edits spreadsheet, but I don't think he will personally incorporate it into the OSFM. Speaking from last year's experience, unless no one else volunteers, I'd rather not be the one to incorporate the data into the OSFM because I spent literally the entire year tweaking data and pitch types (new data kept on coming out) and I didn't even get to play franchise mode with my final roster since '12 had already come out by the time I was finished. I think my point is that I would take way too long and probably piss off a lot of people lol, I'm surprised I finished these in two weeks, I think I originally said I would finish in 1 day

One can easily see you did a whole lot of work on this, figuring out pitch movement, etc. I find it very interesting that Brooksbaseball calculates speed differently than fangraphs or texasleaguers, very interesting indeed.

The one thing I would have preferred you do is lump them by teams instead of first name. But, I still love what you did, and still appreciate what you did. Man, that was lots of work and doing it so fast is amazing. Look what you did in two weeks and SCEA...

Well, thank you very much for the time and effort you put into giving us such a gem

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cavicchi

One can easily see you did a whole lot of work on this, figuring out pitch movement, etc. I find it very interesting that Brooksbaseball calculates speed differently than fangraphs or texasleaguers, very interesting indeed. The one thing I would have preferred you do is lump them by teams instead of first name. But, I still love what you did, and still appreciate what you did. Man, that was lots of work and doing it so fast is amazing. Look what you did in two weeks and SCEA... Well, thank you very much for the time and effort you put into giving us such a gem

The spreadsheet can be sorted by teams, it took me a good 10 minutes to figure this out:

First click on view and change to list mode

If you click on "Team" it will sort by team name in alphabetical order (Angels, Astros, etc.)

I think a cooler feature is that if you click "all" under team name, you can view players on a specific team only, so if i click on the Mariners, the sheet will only show Mariners players

I know I promised you guys 1 day tops (LOL) but two weeks ain't that bad either

[LanteriX]

Reposting this from Mavs' thread for you to take a look at sean, as far as Control ratings are concerned:

I find that SCEA's BB/9 ratings are solid for most pitchers, so what I do is use the pitch that has the highest strike %, and give that a rating a few points above what their BB/9 rating is. Then adjust downwards for each pitch that is a lower strike %. Tweak until all the pitches combined average out to the pitcher's BB/9 rating, while maintaining the correct increments.

Examples:

Tim Lincecum

BB/9 = 62

Slider K% = 65, Rating = 67
4FB K% = 64, Rating = 66
2FB K% = 61, Rating = 63
CH K% = 59, Rating = 61
CU K% = 55, Rating = 57

Average control rating = 62.8

Zack Greinke

BB/9 = 81

4FB K% = 68, Rating = 87
2FB K% = 64, Rating = 83
SL K% = 62, Rating = 81
CU K% = 60, Rating = 79
CH K% = 56, Rating = 75

Average control = 81

It's not an exact science, but I feel like it gives a little bit more accurate of a representation of pitcher's command over pitches, by rating off their best controlled pitch and scaling down from there, using their walk tendency to dictate how much control they have.

[Cavicchi]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

The spreadsheet can be sorted by teams, it took me a good 10 minutes to figure this out: First click on view and change to list mode If you click on "Team" it will sort by team name in alphabetical order (Angels, Astros, etc.) I think a cooler feature is that if you click "all" under team name, you can view players on a specific team only, so if i click on the Mariners, the sheet will only show Mariners players I know I promised you guys 1 day tops (LOL) but two weeks ain't that bad either

Yes, I did as you suggested and it works as intended. I know this is going to be controversial, but how did you come up with a slurve for Kimbrel instead of a slider? I think I've read articles where some call it a slurve and some call it a slider.

[AUTiger1]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cavicchi

Yes, I did as you suggested and it works as intended. I know this is going to be controversial, but how did you come up with a slurve for Kimbrel instead of a slider? I think I've read articles where some call it a slurve and some call it a slider.

Because it really is a slurve. It's not a straight silder nor a straight curve. All you've got to do is what how the pitch moves.

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cavicchi

Yes, I did as you suggested and it works as intended. I know this is going to be controversial, but how did you come up with a slurve for Kimbrel instead of a slider? I think I've read articles where some call it a slurve and some call it a slider.

I'd say Craig Kimbrel owns the weirdest pitch in all of baseball

There are a couple of methods to determine what is a slider:

pitch speed - a typical slider is 5-8 mph slower than a fastball, some guys have slow sweeping sliders, but those are really rare

RPM - Sliders generally have an RPM under 1000, anything higher is pushing curveball/slurve range

vertical movement - Sliders typically have vertical movement in the 20-30 inch range, curveballs usually have vertical movement in the 40-60 inch range, which indicates topspin

Kimbrel's breaking ball only fits into one of these categories, Brooks actually lists the pitch as a curveball and for good reason - check out this grip:


610x.jpg



Unfortunately, the Knuckle Curve in-game does not act like Kimbrel's, therefore the most logical choice would be a slurve, since its a mish-mash of a curveball and a slider