Ratings for Hitters

[wudl83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yeats

The fact is magee you're asking a question about an issue with the game that has no real fix. Many player ratings are incorrect simply because they have to be, due to the way those ratings interact with the sim engine primarily. When hitting ratings are lowered, it throws off the sim stats. So anybody who's a good hitter has to have ratings in the high 80s and 90s in every category to make sure sim stats pan out properly. I don't care about sim stats, so I can get away with lowering players' hitting ratings, and then compensate by raising power and contact sliders.

Seriously I do not understand why you (no offense again) do state this problem with the sim engine. Many may know it, many may not know it, but I am about to edit every rating for every player in the game. By now I have made the 25 man rosters of all MLB teams (only the brewers and pirates are left) and I edited the "correct" split stats. And when I sim a season there are no problems with the sim engine. There are always some crap players in the high statistical positions (because of having hot streaks all season long) while some of the "normal" top tier players have bad stats because of having cold streaks all season long.
You have this problem with correct split ratings and you have this problem with incorrect (so to say 2k rated) split ratings.
Some things like the SPs pitching way too few innings while many RP pitchign way too many innings can't be corrected via ratings. I tested it with 99 stamina and 99 durability for SPs, no chance, you won't match the real IPs the SPs in real life have.
It's a problem of the sim engine itself, not a problem created mainly by the ratings.
Also I do believe that the sim engine is influenced by the STATS the players had the last few years, too. And this is a point that you can't change, again.

[VC_Plant]

Quote: Originally Posted by wudl83

Why shouldn't one expect that? When a batter has done it three years in a row, then why shouldn't he do it in the fourth? The same thing goes with pitchers: Look at Dan Haren. His career BAA against LHB is lower than against RHB. And that's although he is a RHP. When 2k wants to use formulas for their rating system that is based on the last 3 years then one can expect that it is correct regarding split stats. I do not see the problem. Perhaps you do not expect something? But when it happens 3 years in a row now I do expect it. No offense.

Again, 2K did that in on 2K10 and you are in the minority in thinking that by the negative reaction they received. What your suggesting as the "correct" system is the copout easy method that just recreates 2011 rather than projecting 2012. I thought I've explained this as clearly as possible. If you really think that even after taking out all the factors influencing small sample size statistics like managers giving the night off to their better left handed hitters against tough left handed pitchers or managers leaving in their left handed pitcher for one more at bat against a weak hitting RH batter, that more than a freakish handful of left handers would ever hit left handed pitching better than right handed pitching for a significantly long period of time, I don't know what to tell you. I did a comparison a few years ago and the only active player pulling off that feat with more than 600 ABs vs. LH was Ichiro. Over three seasons, maybe they get lucky like Cabrera vs RH or Huff vs. LH but it'll never hold (see 2012 Huff and 2012 Cabrera).

[Yeats]

Quote: Originally Posted by wudl83

Seriously I do not understand why you (no offense again) do state this problem with the sim engine.

I never said there's a problem with the sim engine. I said that because of the way the sim engine and player ratings interact, 2K has to rate players extremely high. Try it. Use Ty's editor and lower power ratings by 20 points across the board. You'll end up with power players hitting 20 HRs a year, tops. That's why the ratings are over-inflated in this game, and why so many players are rated in the high 80s and 90s in power and contact. So then there's no room for any rating flexibility, and you end up having to rate Cabrera 99 vsL and 98 vsR, just to ensure his sim stats pan out properly.

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by VC_Plant

Mostly his .340+ batting average vs lefties this year. Again, it's a projection. It would be ridiculously easy to just sort by the splits and rate by that with a table that scales down from whatever the highest batting average is (as 2K did in 2010 and got roasted for), but it's not accurate and creates situations like lefties hitting better off lefties due to small sample sizes. Jeter hit lefties 33 points higher for his career, in 2011 he hit 72 points higher... small sample size (89 vs LH, 80 vs RH before Living Roster meddling). Cabrera hit lefties 1 point higher for his career. In 2011, he hit lefties 34 points LOWER (99/98)... small sample size. You can pick at it all you want, but the simple answer is Jeter hit 44 points lower overall than Cabrera so having 28 fewer Contact rating points really shouldn't surprise you and 2K’s not going to do the ratings like it did in 2K10 again which is the method you seem to be expecting. Sure, it’s easier to understand, but it would make the game more a "let's recreate 2011" simulator than a 2012 projection simulator. Make sense?

No, it doesn't make sense. Jeter is a better hitter vs left-handers (it continues this year as jeter is hitting .388 vs lefties and cabrera is hitting .342) and should have had a higher rating in that category. All you have to do is look at the stats. Say what you may, but the proof is right there in front of you.

[VC_Plant]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yeats

I never said there's a problem with the sim engine. I said that because of the way the sim engine and player ratings interact, 2K has to rate players extremely high. Try it. Use Ty's editor and lower power ratings by 20 points across the board. You'll end up with power players hitting 20 HRs a year, tops. That's why the ratings are over-inflated in this game, and why so many players are rated in the high 80s and 90s in power and contact. So then there's no room for any rating flexibility, and you end up having to rate Cabrera 99 vsL and 98 vsR.

There definately is some visual vs. scale issues. If player A hits 50 HRs and player B hits 25 HRs, you don't give player B half the power rating or everybody will complain. The simulator does scale up for the higher values so the difference between a 99 power and 89 power is much greater than 89 and 79.

[Yeats]

Quote: Originally Posted by VC_Plant

There definately is some visual vs. scale issues. If player A hits 50 HRs and player B hits 25 HRs, you don't give player B half the power rating or everybody will complain. The simulator does scale up for the higher values so the difference between a 99 power and 89 power is much greater than 89 and 79.

Yup, that's an issue as well, good point.

[VC_Plant]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

No, it doesn't make sense. Jeter is a better hitter vs left-handers (at least he was) and should have had a higher rating in that category

And it was 10 points higher. So you want his vs. RH dropped as well, correct? The calculation was overall batting and then that number is modified based on the split. There was an attempt to cap the difference between the two values. Maybe that should be your argument, that the cap should have been larger.

[wudl83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yeats

I never said there's a problem with the sim engine. I said that because of the way the sim engine and player ratings interact, 2K has to rate players extremely high. Try it. Use Ty's editor and lower power ratings by 20 points across the board. You'll end up with power players hitting 20 HRs a year, tops. That's why the ratings are over-inflated in this game, and why so many players are rated in the high 80s and 90s in power and contact. So then there's no room for any rating flexibility, and you end up having to rate Cabrera 99 vsL and 98 vsR, just to ensure his sim stats pan out properly.

I have 50 contact and 75 pwr guys like Flaherty and so on often with 35-40 HR in simmed seasons. Nuff said.

[wudl83]

Quote: Originally Posted by VC_Plant

There definately is some visual vs. scale issues. If player A hits 50 HRs and player B hits 25 HRs, you don't give player B half the power rating or everybody will complain. The simulator does scale up for the higher values so the difference between a 99 power and 89 power is much greater than 89 and 79.

You (or 2k) should not compare the lone HR numbers and then assign ratings, they should take AB/HR stats and then give the players the PWR ratings.

E.g.:
A player with 25 HR and 250 ABs should have a higher pwr rating than a guy with 50 HR and 1500 ABs.

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by VC_Plant

And it was 10 points higher. So you want his vs. RH dropped as well, correct? The calculation was overall batting and then that number is modified based on the split. There was an attempt to cap the difference between the two values. Maybe that should be your argument, that the cap should have been larger.

cabrera's vslt contact shouldnt have been higher than jeters, thats my complaint. Are you saying that the overall average is what's used to determine scontact rating, not splits?