Hello all - and hopefully - Madden devs. I am here to tackle the issue of... dun, dun, dun... sliders!
Now, as you all know, there's a group of people here that experiment and tinker with the sliders here... most of you will know him as Bill and if you want more info on what I'm about to say, you can go to his thread in the sliders forum(I will post it on an edit)...
anyway, I have tested his findings regarding the sliders and have found that they are undoubtedly true beyond a shadow of a doubt in my mind.
Anyway, here's the issue... the sliders...
Issue number one is that if you change one slider, it may completely change up a different aspect of the game play you had no intention of changing.
For example: Upping WR catch will up not only the WR's tendency to catch thrown balls, but it also adjust the QB accuracy, how fast the reciever runs routes, and the amount of space he is able to generate... in essence, this ONE slider changes not only EVERY facet of reciever gameplay, but also a major facet of QB gameplay(accuracy).
Now, the problem with this is that if we want faster more crisp routes, recievers will hardly ever drop balls in any situation, QB's are more accurate, and they may be open more often than we'd like... so I am imploring EA for more control of the sliders and what they effect!
Another example: The tackle slider. This slider doesn't effect how well a player tackles like you would think, it effects a certain range before an offensive player gets sucked into a tackle. Having this slider high will result in offensive players getting sucked into tackles from farther away and a higher probability of a fumble, lower, like everybody should want it, will result in considerably better gameplay and hardly any fumbles at all, leaving us, the consumer, once again without a happy medium.
And it's like this for nearly every slider in the game... So I propose that EA expand their sliders, fill the game up with some sweet animations, and give us control over exactly what we want.
Offense Passing
- QB Accuracy: This slider should ONLY effect the QB's accuracy and nothing else gameplay related.
- QB Awareness: This slider should effect how well a QB can feel the rush and step up/increase or decrease how well he can feel a defender coming from his blind side(in which case, he should hit the dump off route more often than not, not throw off his back foot for a twenty yard gain).
- QB Throw Power: This should effect how far a QB can throw the ball in optimal conditions.
- QB Throw Velocity: This should effect how fast a QB can throw the ball in about a 15-20 yard window.
Recieving - Route Running: this should increase a players route running ability. I highly suggest EA seriously do animations for every level of route runner: bad, below average, average, above average, good and great. The worse a route runner the player is, the more he has a tendency to run the route in such a manner that he telegraphs where he is going and is easier to defend. A great route runner would be selling fakes by dipping the shoulder, have great double moves, etc. Average route runners should still be able to pull off a great route, but it should be FAR less frequent than a great route runner(bad route runners should be able to pull off an above average route, but it'd be even more less frequent).
- Catching: Effects the probability a player can haul in a catch.
- Catch in Traffic: Effects the probability a player can haul in a catch when he is about to be hit or the defense is tight.
- Spectacular Catch: Effects the probability the player can haul in jump balls, one handed grabs, or catches on the sideline where a toe tap is needed.
- Release: Effects the ability of a reciever to beat press coverage(again open the animation vault and give players like Moss some shimmies to beat a DB off the line, players like Calvin Johnson some physical moves, and players like Larry Fitzgerald a mixture).
Carrying(this should apply to the player carrying the ball)
- Break Tackle: How well a ball carrier can power through tackles.
- Elusiveness: Effects the animations triggered when an elusive back breaks a tackle and how often these animations are triggered(maybe a modifier for juke/spin, too).
- Trucking: Effects how often a player will truck an opposing ball carrier.
- Fumble: Effects the probability a player will lose the ball when tackled.
Blocking
- Pass Blocking Strength: Right now this is used as a general suction rating. If a blocker is rated high in this, he can start his block animation and trap the defender from further away. In my opinion, it should be used to determine how often a player gets beat on bull rush maneuvers.
- Pass Blocking Footwork: Right now this effects the players ability to handle finesse moves. I believe this slider should have two effects, the first being it's use now, and the second being the players ability to ride the pass rusher down field and create a pocket(basically, increase the probability of a 'steering'[which we know exist] that can be branched out of).
- Run Blocking Strength: Right now this is used much like pass blocking: a range for how far away a player needs to be to initiate sucking a defender in and performing a run block. In my opinion, this should be used to determine how big of a push and how quickly a player can push an opposing player out of the way.
- Run Blocking Footwork: This does what I think Rub Blocking strength should do. In my opinion, this should decrease the probability of a being shed quickly.
- Impact Blocking: Should effect the frequency of decleaters or crackbacks.
Defense Pass Defense
- Pass Reaction: Right now this gives the CPU player an unrealistic speed boost to a ball in flight(aka a suction to the ball triggered by the range at which a player can start an animation). What this should do is change the speed a player reacts and IF a player can react(in the case of strong armed QB's gunning a ball, sometimes the defender doesn't have enough time to bat it down) to a ball that is thrown. I think this is a modifier btw for play reaction and if that's the case, linemen with a high play reaction should be more likely to time out the snap count and jump it(this would actually bring back the dynamic of offsides, because bad linemen would occasionally try to jump the snap count or get confused by the players cadence).
- Interceptions: How well the defense as a whole can catch balls that hit their hands.
- Man Coverage: How often a player gets beat in man coverage.
- Zone Coverage: How well a player can take away passes in a zone and how often he might blow his coverage.
- Press Defense: How well a player can play the press, jam the receiver, and how often he gets beaten at the line by receivers with a great release.
- Finesse Moves: How well a player uses finesse moves to get to the QB.
- Power Moves: How well a player uses power moves to clog a lane.
Pursuit Defense
- Rush Reaction: Instead of the unrealistic speed boost the player gets to fill the whole or get to the ball before it has passed the line of scrimmage, the player should simply... GASP, react better to the rush. Players very highly rated in this attribute should be able to read the offense and try to take away things that the offense is trying to get(ie the offense has been running to the right a lot, maybe have a defensive player read the run and try to get contain on the outside).
- Block Shedding: How well and quickly a player can shed a blocker.
- Pursuit: Effects how often a player will take a good pursuit angle over a bad one/tendency to over/underpursue.
- Tackling: Effects how often a bad defensive player misses a tackle/how often a good defensive player can wrap up and stop the ball carrier.
Hit Power: Effects how hard players can hit and how often they can force fumbles.
Universal
- Strength: I have no idea what this effects now, but in my opinion it should be the players ability to push the opposing player when no special moves are being utilized/push a pile.
- Speed: Effects the speed at which all players move(and yes, keep differential).
- Agility: Effects the players abiltiy to cut without losing speed or coming to a complete stop/come to a complete stop and start moving again.
- Acceleration: Effects how fast a player can attain his top end speed.
Jumping: Effects how high all players can jump with respect to their ratings.
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As far as I'm concerned, you give me the sliders to work with and I can make the game play like real football within the constraints of this engine. Obviously, you guys can create a slider for each category labeled SUCTION or ASSIST so that there are sliders that govern how much a player should be sucked into something... I mean, you have those sliders already, you just have them labeled as ratings like RBS and PBS and even the catch/int/tackle rating include this logic.
[Reply]
Boregard 02:34 AM 11-11-2009
I agree with a great deal of your post!
Especially the part about adding a QB Awareness slider to offset the QB throwing too quickly or out of sacks they shouldn't feel and to some degree to account for a QBs pre-snap reads in the case of the CPU! Even rookie QBs with low experience and low awareness read overload blitzes really too well making the blitz the "dumb rookie" just as risky as blitzing P Manning and that just should not be!
Some of the stuff in here, while I agree should have sliders available to adjust - need to be seriously tweaked in the gameplay tuning process - Route running for instance - even great route runners never seem to sell the CBs (even mediocre ones) on the deep route when running a hitch, or comeback route - in fact the CB will jump the route even when he has no "over the top" safety help - which is just stupid! So that needs tweaked, along with the speed that WRs or any player runs routes, they are too slow currently!
Slant routes, outs, hooks/hitch routes take way too long. And the players seem to run routes way below their speed ratings - like they are jogging at half speed - so make route running the attribute effect what speed available to that player is used.
IE- you have a 90 spd reciever with 99 route running - he should run his routes at nearly full speed (88- 90) and his cuts should be sharp and precise
- the you have a 90 spd wr with a 80 route running - he should run at a lower speed through his route (open to suggestions here as a 19 point difference in route running should not put him 19 points slower during his route but slower by a significant amount- maybe the "speed during the route" is less affected than the cuts and correctness of depth/ and what he gives away to the defender) and his cuts should be more rounded off, less crisp, and more easily recognized by defenders!
So I guess I am all for the users having more sliders and thus more input to tweak the game, but really I am looking for EA to step up the game some - I mean this is a man's game!!!
Another thing that kills me about Madden currently is the speed of the game, the removal of the old cut moves, and the fact that you see plays every Sunday that you could never recreate in the Madden Game!!! I like that they added the ability to tweak the speed setting to your liking, but really on normal a 5 yd out route should not be a 5 step drop route and it is currently in Madden -
Then take this as far as the cutting, speed, agility deal - go to youtube and find some Barry Sanders highlights, some "ALL DAY" highlights, watch Devin Hester, MJD, Chris Johnson - it doesn't even have to be a great back, but you will see plays that these guys make that you absolutely, under no circumstances, could you ever recreate in Madden 10, because they killed a the quick cut moves, the spin move, and why do we still have no shoulder shudder move or even a double move like from last gen?
I know they toned some of it down cuz of whiny dudes on here who missed too many tackles trying to hit stick everything that moved, the game doesn't seem to give you a better chance to make a safe tackle by either diving or just trying to run into the guy, but fix that and give me back that "WOW! He's got moves on top of moves!" stuff for the appropriate players!
You can create a 99 spd, agi, elu, acc, car, spn, juke, RB in this game and you still can't do some of the stuff you see on Sundays currently, never mind trying a Barry Sanders type run!
And why the heck don't the really highly rated SPC WRs go up for the ball on their own? What happen to players playing like their real world counterparts? I mean i played a game with the Cards recently, I took several shots at Fitz in single coverage, throwing high looking for him to make the play, not one single catch! Heck he only got close to one, and that was against a 82 rated CB all game - doesn't add up at all! And yes I heard everyone complaining about the tall WRs being too much of an advantage in years past and no I still don't buy into that argument at all!!! Fitz, R Wayne, Boldin, and insert your impact WR with height here all give their teams an advantage and that is not reflected in Madden 10 without manually changing the guys route and rocket/jetpacking and that is dumb. I want that challenge if I am playing a guy who is using the Cards, i want to have to keep over the top safety help, and then make a choice while the ball i in the air - do I go up with him as the CB and fight for the ball, do I try to get the safety and Hit stick him, or do I just try to minimize the damage after the catch - obviously where the pass is on the field and the score and all these other factors come into play, but as it is now it is a cheese game to see if you can out maneuver your opponent into rocket catch position by running away and then back to the ball =DUMB!!!!
[Reply]
NCballa05 12:29 AM 11-24-2009
i think madden needs to fig out how to make a game w/ much few glitches....this is ridiculous..i think they should focus on the bigger things and stop trying to fix small non factors in the game
[Reply]
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