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Correlation between Madden and NCAA

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Old 04-19-2012, 04:57 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOACHK
Casey what's good! -Are you coming to NYC next week?

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you on limiting audibles though man; between the basic run/pass/play-action options, plays being signaled in from the sideline (via helmet "headset" or signals being called in ala Oregon), and those nifty arm-bands with the microscopic lettering, QBs pretty much do have access to the entire playbook in no-huddle situations too. Defensive playcalling is done the same way to combat no-huddle offenses too.

The only issues I've ever had with no-huddle in Madden or NCAA is when it was able to be done after incomplete passes, or how the offense hurries to the LOS way before the defense doees every single time in Madden 12. I always assume my opponent will no-huddle alot and use my audibles like a playcalling "Swiss Army Knife" of sorts.
What's good Coach?!? I was planning on it but due to 2 Madden related trips coming up I'm not gonna be able swing a 3rd... Stuff gets expensive! I added it up and NYC would cost me and the wife another $1200 out of my bank account... Can't do it.

As for the audible thing, we have to go for realism. The arm band is just a reference to what the oc calls in through the headset. With the limited time to communicate the calls are presented in coded fashion (for example blue, 13, zum, delta.... Blue being the formation, 13 being the playcall referenced on the arm band which are quite long and usually numbered or lettered, zum being the motion call ...in this case flanker motion, and delta referencing the base line protection.). The rest of the time over headset is used for general info such as watch for: this, this, and this.

We do need to limit user input on these things because then if we don't we are opening things up for exploits. If it doesn't provide realism, then it needs to go. I'm not a "Sim" guy, I'm a realism guy. Sim is a a horrible term that in theory is great but too often removes part of the sport due to lack of basic knowledge. In league play if my opponent comes out in no huddle every play all game (Madden) with the fatigue registering issues then he will be booted from the league before halftime because no huddle is an exploit due to the fatigue application issues.



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Old 04-19-2012, 05:01 PM   #26
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Re: Correlation between Madden and NCAA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Palmer
I might be confusing what you were saying in your previous post, so let me say this. In NCAA when you went to a no huddle, not matter what formation you picked, you were stuck with the same personnel until you did huddle again, or the clock stopped like from an incomplete pass. If that's what you were asking, then disregard the last post with the pics.
Exactly but in real life no huddle, the whole playbook is available because they can still change personnel.

Again, in NCAA and Madden no huddle is the QB deciding what play to run based on the personnel on the field, not having the entire playbook and personnel available from the sideline, like in real life.

I think the current audible system should either represent that limitation or actually expand the no huddle to realistic guidelines, including the penalty for too many defenders on the field.
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:43 PM   #27
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Re: Correlation between Madden and NCAA

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM
What's good Coach?!? I was planning on it but due to 2 Madden related trips coming up I'm not gonna be able swing a 3rd... Stuff gets expensive! I added it up and NYC would cost me and the wife another $1200 out of my bank account... Can't do it.
I hear that; we'll catch up in the next few weeks though man!


Quote:
Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM
We do need to limit user input on these things because then if we don't we are opening things up for exploits. If it doesn't provide realism, then it needs to go. I'm not a "Sim" guy, I'm a realism guy. Sim is a a horrible term that in theory is great but too often removes part of the sport due to lack of basic knowledge. In league play if my opponent comes out in no huddle every play all game (Madden) with the fatigue registering issues then he will be booted from the league before halftime because no huddle is an exploit due to the fatigue application issues.
In real football there are no limits to strategy within the rules of the game though; I think any sports video game should be built on that preimise. Sure, there are some blatant glitches that will be addressed by the dev teams at EA, and addressed with certain rules in competitive play while those issues are being fixed in the game itself; but we can't go down the road of limiting things in the game based off of fears of what might happen.
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:15 PM   #28
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Re: Correlation between Madden and NCAA

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Originally Posted by KOACHK
I hear that; we'll catch up in the next few weeks though man!




In real football there are no limits to strategy within the rules of the game though; I think any sports video game should be built on that preimise. Sure, there are some blatant glitches that will be addressed by the dev teams at EA, and addressed with certain rules in competitive play while those issues are being fixed in the game itself; but we can't go down the road of limiting things in the game based off of fears of what might happen.
If the NFL, like Madden, didn't allow subs when going no huddle, do you think teams would utilize the entire playbook, regardless of the personnel on the field? For example, if a real NFL team went no huddle from the I form, do you think they would audible into a 4 WR 1 RB Shotgun formation, using I form personnel?

Even the plays Senator Palmer was referring to are actual plays with specific personnel packages, not audible adjustments at the LOS using whatever personnel are out there at the time.

What I am saying and I think CR is too, is that no huddle audibles in Madden should be limited to the original plays formations/personnel. Teams should not be audibling into plays with different personnel packages, without that personnel being on the field.
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:21 PM   #29
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Re: Correlation between Madden and NCAA

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Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
If the NFL, like Madden, didn't allow subs when going no huddle, do you think teams would utilize the entire playbook, regardless of the personnel on the field? For example, if a real NFL team went no huddle from the I form, do you think they would audible into a 4 WR 1 RB Shotgun formation, using I form personnel?

Even the plays Senator Palmer was referring to are actual plays with specific personnel packages, not audible adjustments at the LOS using whatever personnel are out there at the time.

What I am saying and I think CR is too, is that no huddle audibles in Madden should be limited to the original plays formations/personnel. Teams should not be audibling into plays with different personnel packages, without that personnel being on the field.
Big those pics I posted are two back to back no huddle plays. Completely different formations with the same personnel.
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:37 PM   #30
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Re: Correlation between Madden and NCAA

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Originally Posted by Senator Palmer
Big those pics I posted are two back to back no huddle plays. Completely different formations with the same personnel.
I get that but do you think they practiced and designed those plays to utilize the personnel shown or they just randomly decided to auidible to those play regardless of the personnel?

You seem to be thinking that I saying teams can't don't utilize different personnel packages within various play formations but I am not. What I am saying is that teams have designed and practiced these plays for those personnel packages.

So like earlier with Percy Harvin in the backfield play I mentioned, that is an actual play in the Vikings and Gators playbook, not them just audibling into a run play and Harvin ending up at RB.
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:13 PM   #31
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Re: Correlation between Madden and NCAA

Of course if you come out in an empty set, if you want to audible down to any other formation, it's best to use an empty set with a package that includes at least a HB and maybe a TE, or even a 2nd RB. Yeah, maybe someone can get away with having a WR at HB for a couple of plays, but the game eventually makes you pay for it with fumbles, and injury, or both. Just because the entire playbook is available to someone in a no huddle situation, doesn't mean every play is good for that particular situation. All I'm saying is that as long as a tactic is allowed within the rules of football, and there's no blatant game-breaking glitch associated with it, people should have the choice to use it for better or worse.

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Old 04-19-2012, 08:14 PM   #32
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Re: Correlation between Madden and NCAA

Okay, I get what you're saying there, but you said this in the other post...

Quote:
What I am saying and I think CR is too, is that no huddle audibles in Madden should be limited to the original plays formations/personnel. Teams should not be audibling into plays with different personnel packages, without that personnel being on the field.
This is the part I'm not getting, because no-huddle in real life has multiple formation options. And in the NFL teams there aren't a whole lot of personnel groupings that are limited by formation.

The Patriots can run a 2TE/2WR offense from under center, and the very next play Brady can get in the Gun and spread the field with those same TE's and 2 receivers and it will look like a 4 wide spread on TV.

In Madden playbooks right now there are multiple personnel packages that come with every formation. In 5 wide empty, you can do anything from base, to 4 wide, to 5 wide. So I don't see the need to limit playcalling based off of that. Even the extreme example of going from 5 wide spread to I-formation. As I pointed out in the previous post, if an adequate risk/reward system that you advocate was in place then that play should get stuffed if it's something like a dive play with a wide receiver as a fullback. Then you would be forced to call the game smarter. The answer isn't limiting what you can call, but punishing you for calling something dumb and/or unrealistic.

Quote:
You seem to be thinking that I saying teams can't don't utilize different personnel packages within various play formations but I am not. What I am saying is that teams have designed and practiced these plays for those personnel packages.
I'm having a slow day, and I''ve been trying to do three things at once, so forgive me here. But what does that have to do with Madden? As I said earlier, there are a multitude of personnel packages available in the playbook in every formation. Those two pics I posted are formations and personnel that are in the Falcons' Madden 12 playbook, they wouldn't be artificially created/exploited with a no-huddle audible.
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Last edited by Senator Palmer; 04-19-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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