RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK - Page 2 - Operation Sports Forums
Home

RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

This is a discussion on RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK within the Madden NFL Last Gen forums.

Go Back   Operation Sports Forums > Football > Madden NFL Last Gen
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-26-2010, 09:41 AM   #11
Banned
 
OVR: 12
Join Date: Nov 2007
Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

This is the reason why the ratings are irrelevant: there are too many ratings which have "overlapping" effects. I do see a difference between RBS and RBF: one is for the power or strength which decreasing the chance or an olineman getting over powered out the line of scrimmage; the other would lessen the chance of the olineman missing a block on a running play.

RBF and PBF may be neccessary, but RBS and PBS really isn't. A strong olinemen is have strength whether he's run blocking or pass blocking.

There are many other examples of "overlapping" ratings, which in my opinion, were put in the game merely to wow users into thinking that the rating system in Madden 10 is more complex than it really is.


Last edited by Tito78; 02-26-2010 at 01:38 PM.
Tito78 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Sponsors (you can remove in-post ad banners by registering or logging in)
Old 02-26-2010, 09:45 AM   #12
Banned
 
OVR: 12
Join Date: Nov 2007
Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

Quote:
Originally Posted by xylocaine
I agree, why EA keeps the rating attributes a secret I have no idea. Please create a guide these attributes.
To me, a lot of the ratings look like smoke and mirrors. Take "elusiveness" and "agility", what's the difference ? They aren't mutually exclusive. I've never seen an agile player that wasn't elusive.
Tito78 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 10:08 AM   #13
MVP
 
OVR: 20
Join Date: Sep 2008
Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito78
This is the reason why the rating are irrelevant: there are too many ratings which have "overlapping" effects. While I do see a difference between RBS and RBF: one is for the power or strength which decreasing the chance or an olineman getting over powered out the line of scrimmage; the other would lessen the chance of the olineman missing a block on a running play.

RBF and PBF may be neccessary, but RBS and PBS really isn't. A strong olinemen is have strength whether he's run blocking or pass blocking.

There are many other examples of "overlapping" ratings, which in my opinion, were put in the game merely to wow users into thinking that the rating system in Madden 10 is more complex than it really is.
If they were properly implemented I would have to disagree. RBF should be how well a player moves to get into position to seal off a hole but this will not matter until they do a better job eliminating suction and making angles matter in the blocking game, also it should determine how well the blocker adjusts to swim, rip, and other moves., RBS should be how well the player is able to push the defender back opening up the hole, it should also help against bull rushes.

PBS should be how well the blocker can anchor down and keep from being pushed back into the qb (this is different from RBS because where as in RBS you are trying to fire forward and gain ground here all the forward firing you really have is a hand punch and you are trying to hold your ground, completely different strength). This should also help anchor against bull rushes. PBF should be how well the player moves laterelly to engage a defender or adjust to moves by the defender.

There also needs to be footwork added for pulling and technique for cut blocking which would be more for backs staying in in protection.

I can see reasoning behind nearly all of maddens ratings and many they don't have. The key is proper implementation.
kcarr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 01:55 PM   #14
Banned
 
OVR: 12
Join Date: Nov 2007
Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcarr
If they were properly implemented I would have to disagree. RBF should be how well a player moves to get into position to seal off a hole but this will not matter until they do a better job eliminating suction and making angles matter in the blocking game, also it should determine how well the blocker adjusts to swim, rip, and other moves., RBS should be how well the player is able to push the defender back opening up the hole, it should also help against bull rushes.

PBS should be how well the blocker can anchor down and keep from being pushed back into the qb (this is different from RBS because where as in RBS you are trying to fire forward and gain ground here all the forward firing you really have is a hand punch and you are trying to hold your ground, completely different strength). This should also help anchor against bull rushes. PBF should be how well the player moves laterelly to engage a defender or adjust to moves by the defender.

There also needs to be footwork added for pulling and technique for cut blocking which would be more for backs staying in in protection.

I can see reasoning behind nearly all of maddens ratings and many they don't have. The key is proper implementation.
If we have PBS and RBS , than what purpose would the strength rating serve for an offensive lineman ? Also, why do we need a pass and run blocking ratings when we already have PBS,RBS,RBF and PBF ? Look at agility, what really is it's purpose ? There are a myriad of attributes that already effect how a player moves : there's route running, zone and man coverage, pursuit, finesse moves and elusiveness. Why is agility needed ?

What's the difference between awareness and play recognition ? Do we really need both? Can one exist without the other ?
Tito78 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 02:56 PM   #15
MVP
 
OVR: 20
Join Date: Sep 2008
Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito78
If we have PBS and RBS , than what purpose would the strength rating serve for an offensive lineman ? Also, why do we need a pass and run blocking ratings when we already have PBS,RBS,RBF and PBF ? Look at agility, what really is it's purpose ? There are a myriad of attributes that already effect how a player moves : there's route running, zone and man coverage, pursuit, finesse moves and elusiveness. Why is agility needed ?

What's the difference between awareness and play recognition ? Do we really need both? Can one exist without the other ?
The run and pass blocking are outdated since the new ones came in, they should be removed within the next cycle or two but still have some effect on simmed games. Strength is no longer really needed for olinemen with these new strength ratings but until they have similar ratings for other positions to replace strength, strength needs to be kept around. It is still needed by dlinemen to counter olinemen's other strength ratings, by tacklers and runners in the gang tackle and stand up tackle animations, etc and if they were to add actual jump ball interaction between recievers and defenders it could be used there.

Play recognition has taken part of what awareness used to be in that it controls the ability to properly read play actions, draws, etc. Awareness still needs to be there until there are other ratings to fill in things like penalties, reaction to the ball in the air, all mental aspects of the game, etc. Awareness is a rating that eventually needs o be phazed out but they are not nearly to that point yet and really probably need several other ratings in place to replace it first.

As for agility, it should be how quickly a player is able to stop and how quickly he can turn while maintaining speed and what speed he can maintain. This is somewhat different from each of these other movement abilities. For instance route running really should be split into 2 ratings, route accuracy and route cuts. Route accuracy would then be how accurately a player ran his routes effecting timing and positioning on the field. Route cuts would determine how well a player performed the cuts and fakes associated with getting open running a route and how much separation they got from those cuts. While agility is also important there and would be used during the cut low or high ratings for agility would effect the cut in much different ways than a low or high route cut rating.

As for the man and zone coverage, zone coverage really shouldn't have much to do with movement so much as how well a player reads their area of a zone, adjusts to people entering and leaving their zone, and reads the qb as they play their zone. Man coverage should effect how well a player is able to anticipate and react to cuts made by a receiver. The man coverage should determine how quickly they react to the cut and start to adjust, the agility should effect how well they actually move when making the adjustment.

As for pursuit, this is more of a mental rating than a movement rating. It should determine the accuracy of pursuit angles taken.

As far as fineese moves goes this is another rating that needs to be split up. There should be different ratings for every move defenders can make, not just the power and finesse moves. However, the ability to make these moves is more of a technique then an agility thing.

Elusiveness should really just be a player's ability to slip out of the grasp of another player, this really has nothing to do with agility. Agility really should be more of an open field movement type of rating.

Last edited by kcarr; 02-26-2010 at 03:08 PM.
kcarr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 10:47 PM   #16
Rookie
 
OVR: 2
Join Date: Apr 2010
Blog Entries: 1
Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

I have a few generated lineman with im looking to trade and to test them i just simmed a couple of games to see pancakes/sacks allowed my #1 lineman is 6'9" 99 str 99 rbs 76 rbf 99pbs 79pbf and he allowes the most sack's and is rated 97 ovr and sucks.


its all bull i have played agaist the colts and they had a ton of injurys so theyer punter was playin center, this happend twice and he held his own with wilfork all over him. EA Sports is not even close to having relistic offensive linemen. example i just played a team in my pats franchise like 5 years in great D, against a poor offensive line and i always blitz at least 4-6 players and a will get a sack every 6-8 times maybe more.

You could convert ur WR and CB to linemen facing the steelers d blitzing everydown and over the whole game they'd prob get around 4 sacks
jtlea7 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 12:28 AM   #17
MVP
 
Palo20's Arena
 
OVR: 21
Join Date: Dec 2006
Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

Ian's explanation a couple years back:

Other ratings, basically rendering RBK, PBK and BTK useless:

Ratings Breakdown?

- Elusiveness: Replacement for "break tackle" rating when choosing what type of broken tackle animations to play. Also modifies the window and success of breaking "elusive style" tackles (jukes & spins) with our new "break out of tackles" feature for 09.*

- Trucking: Replacement for "break tackle" rating when choosing what type of broken tackle animations to play. Also modifies the window and success of breaking "power style" tackles (stiff arm & truck) with our new "break out of tackles" feature for 09.

- Toughness: When injuries are calculated, determines severity of injury (if at all). So higher toughness means less likelihood of severe injuries. Also speeds up recovery of injury in Franchise mode.

- Importance: Used only in Trade Logic...teams are much less likely to trade away "Important" players.*

- Pass Block Strength: Replacement for general "Pass Block" rating when choosing to win or lose while pass blocking. PB Strength determines how well the player performs when the defender is performing power moves against him.*

- Pass Block Footwork: Replacement for general "Pass Block" rating when choosing to win or lose while pass blocking. PB Footwork determines how well the player performs when the defender is performing finesse moves against him. Scales the speed of initial moves at the snap, as well as the distance of kickout pass block initial moves.*

- Run Block Strength: Replacement for general "Run Block" rating when choosing to win or lose while run blocking. RB Strength determines how well they can succeed in locking up a defender while run blocking.*

- Run Block Footwork: Replacement for general "Run Block" rating when choosing to win or lose while run blocking. RB Footwork determines how well they can succeed in pushing a defender while run blocking. Also scales the speed of initial moves.*

- Block Shedding: Defensive rating on how well defenders can "shed" blocks when in the open field (i.e. in pursuit of the ballcarrier)

- Impact Blocking: Offensive rating on how well blockers can pancake (or block normally) when in the open field - mainly special teams, turnover returns, etc
Palo20 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 07:12 AM   #18
Pro
 
carnalnirvana's Arena
 
OVR: 21
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: brooklyn, ny
Posts: 1,945
Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

^ those descriptions from ian i would take those with a grain of salt....

run block strength imo is the ability to drive the rusher back or out the play.

run block footwork when in space or for wide rushers being able to pick them up and maintain technique.....
__________________
NOW PLAYING: COD ghosts, NCAA 14 & , Battlefield 4, Maddeen 25 NBA2K14(myplayer only)

#18 greatest EVA....
carnalnirvana is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 12:47 PM   #19
Rookie
 
falconfansince81's Arena
 
OVR: 3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Youngstown, OH
Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtlea7
I have a few generated lineman with im looking to trade and to test them i just simmed a couple of games to see pancakes/sacks allowed my #1 lineman is 6'9" 99 str 99 rbs 76 rbf 99pbs 79pbf and he allowes the most sack's and is rated 97 ovr and sucks.


its all bull i have played agaist the colts and they had a ton of injurys so theyer punter was playin center, this happend twice and he held his own with wilfork all over him. EA Sports is not even close to having relistic offensive linemen. example i just played a team in my pats franchise like 5 years in great D, against a poor offensive line and i always blitz at least 4-6 players and a will get a sack every 6-8 times maybe more.

You could convert ur WR and CB to linemen facing the steelers d blitzing everydown and over the whole game they'd prob get around 4 sacks
which is precisely why in our online fantasy drafts i pick my oline dead last, AFTER my entire 2nd and 3rd string players. they usually end up around a 70-75 ovr, and i don't bother looking at anything else. and wouldn't you know it? turner ran for almost 2000 yards our 1st season, while guys with the best olines in the leagues didn't produce half that.

i wouldn't do this without concrete evidence, so i edited my rosters so that all my oline had a rating of 12 for every relevant category. ran 30 runs and 30 passes and took note on the average. had around 4.5 ypc and no problems passing.

switched sides and ran the same plays with the colts, actually averaged slightly less running the ball...thats when i decided the ratings weren't exactly affecting the game.
falconfansince81 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 01:02 PM   #20
MVP
 
Palo20's Arena
 
OVR: 21
Join Date: Dec 2006
Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

Quote:
Originally Posted by carnalnirvana
^ those descriptions from ian i would take those with a grain of salt....

run block strength imo is the ability to drive the rusher back or out the play.

run block footwork when in space or for wide rushers being able to pick them up and maintain technique.....

So you think your opinion is better than Ian's descriptions?
Palo20 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

« Operation Sports Forums > Football > Madden NFL Last Gen »


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:39 PM.

Top -