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RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

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Old 02-25-2010, 10:19 AM   #9
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Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

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Originally Posted by kcarr
The worst part is most people at EA don't even seem to know for sure what all these ratings do. I think it was donny last year when we were discussing ratings on here and why there is still a run block and pass block rating even though there are also these new ratings. He, the guy in charge of rating players and therefore someone who should know exactly what the ratings mean, said he was unsure exactly where they came into play but he thought they still had some impact on simmed games but didn't think there was any impact in played games.

If the "ratings czar" at EA doesn't know what all these ratings do and where they all play in it is probably time for atleast somewhat of an overhaul of the system and a true re-evaluation of what current ratings are needed, what can be taken away, what needs to be added, and what exactly the formulas for success/failure of each interaction including what ratings play what part.
I agree with this. Sad that the FAQ we made on OS was never answered. Alot of questions like this were in thread and someone from EA(intern?) was supposed to do a writeup answering questions similar to this.
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Old 02-25-2010, 11:50 PM   #10
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Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

I do acknowledge that these guys inherited a game that has been shocking for 3-4 years on next gen. It never seemed to get built up properly and seems to have had a fair few people take over it and add their flavors to it. So essentially Ian & co would have a hell of a time trying to figure it all out and with the remaining years before a new gen of consoles comes out its prob not worth knocking the whole thing down and starting from scratch. They are doing the best with what they have.

But as we saw with the second patch and the new simmed running stats they can't tweak to much with out the whole deck of cards coming down...
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Old 02-26-2010, 09:41 AM   #11
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Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

This is the reason why the ratings are irrelevant: there are too many ratings which have "overlapping" effects. I do see a difference between RBS and RBF: one is for the power or strength which decreasing the chance or an olineman getting over powered out the line of scrimmage; the other would lessen the chance of the olineman missing a block on a running play.

RBF and PBF may be neccessary, but RBS and PBS really isn't. A strong olinemen is have strength whether he's run blocking or pass blocking.

There are many other examples of "overlapping" ratings, which in my opinion, were put in the game merely to wow users into thinking that the rating system in Madden 10 is more complex than it really is.


Last edited by Tito78; 02-26-2010 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 02-26-2010, 09:45 AM   #12
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Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

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Originally Posted by xylocaine
I agree, why EA keeps the rating attributes a secret I have no idea. Please create a guide these attributes.
To me, a lot of the ratings look like smoke and mirrors. Take "elusiveness" and "agility", what's the difference ? They aren't mutually exclusive. I've never seen an agile player that wasn't elusive.
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:08 AM   #13
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Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

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Originally Posted by Tito78
This is the reason why the rating are irrelevant: there are too many ratings which have "overlapping" effects. While I do see a difference between RBS and RBF: one is for the power or strength which decreasing the chance or an olineman getting over powered out the line of scrimmage; the other would lessen the chance of the olineman missing a block on a running play.

RBF and PBF may be neccessary, but RBS and PBS really isn't. A strong olinemen is have strength whether he's run blocking or pass blocking.

There are many other examples of "overlapping" ratings, which in my opinion, were put in the game merely to wow users into thinking that the rating system in Madden 10 is more complex than it really is.
If they were properly implemented I would have to disagree. RBF should be how well a player moves to get into position to seal off a hole but this will not matter until they do a better job eliminating suction and making angles matter in the blocking game, also it should determine how well the blocker adjusts to swim, rip, and other moves., RBS should be how well the player is able to push the defender back opening up the hole, it should also help against bull rushes.

PBS should be how well the blocker can anchor down and keep from being pushed back into the qb (this is different from RBS because where as in RBS you are trying to fire forward and gain ground here all the forward firing you really have is a hand punch and you are trying to hold your ground, completely different strength). This should also help anchor against bull rushes. PBF should be how well the player moves laterelly to engage a defender or adjust to moves by the defender.

There also needs to be footwork added for pulling and technique for cut blocking which would be more for backs staying in in protection.

I can see reasoning behind nearly all of maddens ratings and many they don't have. The key is proper implementation.
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Old 02-26-2010, 01:55 PM   #14
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Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

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Originally Posted by kcarr
If they were properly implemented I would have to disagree. RBF should be how well a player moves to get into position to seal off a hole but this will not matter until they do a better job eliminating suction and making angles matter in the blocking game, also it should determine how well the blocker adjusts to swim, rip, and other moves., RBS should be how well the player is able to push the defender back opening up the hole, it should also help against bull rushes.

PBS should be how well the blocker can anchor down and keep from being pushed back into the qb (this is different from RBS because where as in RBS you are trying to fire forward and gain ground here all the forward firing you really have is a hand punch and you are trying to hold your ground, completely different strength). This should also help anchor against bull rushes. PBF should be how well the player moves laterelly to engage a defender or adjust to moves by the defender.

There also needs to be footwork added for pulling and technique for cut blocking which would be more for backs staying in in protection.

I can see reasoning behind nearly all of maddens ratings and many they don't have. The key is proper implementation.
If we have PBS and RBS , than what purpose would the strength rating serve for an offensive lineman ? Also, why do we need a pass and run blocking ratings when we already have PBS,RBS,RBF and PBF ? Look at agility, what really is it's purpose ? There are a myriad of attributes that already effect how a player moves : there's route running, zone and man coverage, pursuit, finesse moves and elusiveness. Why is agility needed ?

What's the difference between awareness and play recognition ? Do we really need both? Can one exist without the other ?
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:56 PM   #15
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Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

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Originally Posted by Tito78
If we have PBS and RBS , than what purpose would the strength rating serve for an offensive lineman ? Also, why do we need a pass and run blocking ratings when we already have PBS,RBS,RBF and PBF ? Look at agility, what really is it's purpose ? There are a myriad of attributes that already effect how a player moves : there's route running, zone and man coverage, pursuit, finesse moves and elusiveness. Why is agility needed ?

What's the difference between awareness and play recognition ? Do we really need both? Can one exist without the other ?
The run and pass blocking are outdated since the new ones came in, they should be removed within the next cycle or two but still have some effect on simmed games. Strength is no longer really needed for olinemen with these new strength ratings but until they have similar ratings for other positions to replace strength, strength needs to be kept around. It is still needed by dlinemen to counter olinemen's other strength ratings, by tacklers and runners in the gang tackle and stand up tackle animations, etc and if they were to add actual jump ball interaction between recievers and defenders it could be used there.

Play recognition has taken part of what awareness used to be in that it controls the ability to properly read play actions, draws, etc. Awareness still needs to be there until there are other ratings to fill in things like penalties, reaction to the ball in the air, all mental aspects of the game, etc. Awareness is a rating that eventually needs o be phazed out but they are not nearly to that point yet and really probably need several other ratings in place to replace it first.

As for agility, it should be how quickly a player is able to stop and how quickly he can turn while maintaining speed and what speed he can maintain. This is somewhat different from each of these other movement abilities. For instance route running really should be split into 2 ratings, route accuracy and route cuts. Route accuracy would then be how accurately a player ran his routes effecting timing and positioning on the field. Route cuts would determine how well a player performed the cuts and fakes associated with getting open running a route and how much separation they got from those cuts. While agility is also important there and would be used during the cut low or high ratings for agility would effect the cut in much different ways than a low or high route cut rating.

As for the man and zone coverage, zone coverage really shouldn't have much to do with movement so much as how well a player reads their area of a zone, adjusts to people entering and leaving their zone, and reads the qb as they play their zone. Man coverage should effect how well a player is able to anticipate and react to cuts made by a receiver. The man coverage should determine how quickly they react to the cut and start to adjust, the agility should effect how well they actually move when making the adjustment.

As for pursuit, this is more of a mental rating than a movement rating. It should determine the accuracy of pursuit angles taken.

As far as fineese moves goes this is another rating that needs to be split up. There should be different ratings for every move defenders can make, not just the power and finesse moves. However, the ability to make these moves is more of a technique then an agility thing.

Elusiveness should really just be a player's ability to slip out of the grasp of another player, this really has nothing to do with agility. Agility really should be more of an open field movement type of rating.

Last edited by kcarr; 02-26-2010 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:47 PM   #16
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Re: RUN BLOCK STRENGTH AND RUN BLOCK FOOTWORK

I have a few generated lineman with im looking to trade and to test them i just simmed a couple of games to see pancakes/sacks allowed my #1 lineman is 6'9" 99 str 99 rbs 76 rbf 99pbs 79pbf and he allowes the most sack's and is rated 97 ovr and sucks.


its all bull i have played agaist the colts and they had a ton of injurys so theyer punter was playin center, this happend twice and he held his own with wilfork all over him. EA Sports is not even close to having relistic offensive linemen. example i just played a team in my pats franchise like 5 years in great D, against a poor offensive line and i always blitz at least 4-6 players and a will get a sack every 6-8 times maybe more.

You could convert ur WR and CB to linemen facing the steelers d blitzing everydown and over the whole game they'd prob get around 4 sacks
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