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Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

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Old 09-27-2009, 08:46 PM   #1
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Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

Not bashing either game, franchise, or company.

Just going to express something that's been on my mind.

Alright, first off, every game of Madden feels the exact same. It doesn't matter who the CPU QB is. Whether it's Peyton Manning, Jay Cutler, Dree Brees, or Jarmacus Russell. All of them play the exact same.

Now, let's look at APF2K8. A gold QB can and will light the hell out of you unless you make adjustments, where as a bronze or non-tiered QB will dink and dunk and have a hard time burning you.

The same goes with defense. This is my huge beef with Madden. In APF2K8, I dare you to throw in the vicinity of Charles Woodson or a gold corner. They can totally take your receiver out of the game. That is, you can't sneak any money plays on them. Slant? Nope, they'll jump it and pick it. Over the top? They'll stay step for step with your WR and bat it down. Screen? You'll get rocked.

In Madden, I can spam the same play, game in and game in, pre-patch or post patch, year in and year out, and go 16-0. I can't do that in APF2K8. Why? Their AI is marginally better. Madden needs a system like APF2k8, it's as simple as that. If EA stays on the same track, it just goes to show you how arrogant they are.

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Old 09-27-2009, 09:55 PM   #2
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

I disagree about every game feeling the same. Play a game against the Saints and Drew Brees and you will get burned early and often (unless you have a secondary with all 95+ OVR players), now go play a game against the Raiders and Jamarcus Russell. You might still get burned occasionally, but more often than not Russell will throw into coverage, resulting in INTs or overthrow his WRs. Go play a game against the Steelers and their front 7 will crush your running game, but play against a team like the Browns and you'll be able to run over them all day.

With how messed up the coverage AI is in APF I would have no hesitation throwing towards any Gold CB, but when I play the Raiders I don't dare throw it near Nnamdi Asomugha (1/7 with 3 INTs will teach you that real fast). I'm not trying to bash APF, it was a great game, but the DB coverage AI was sketchy on a good day, and downright horrible on a bad day.
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:07 PM   #3
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

APF players still have more character to me than Madden, but it isn't lifeless like years past. I do notice the difference in teams and I appreciate it. APF does it better, but I also think Madden does it well.

I personally love the ability system.
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:23 PM   #4
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

I will agree that in 2k you really see the difference between great, good, and average players. Part of that is how weak the generic players are but also part of that is in their gameplay and ratings. If you take a generic or even most bronze qbs you will have trouble pushing the ball downfield and unless you have to notch receivers the passing game can be pretty tough. I have put up huge numbers with generic backs but only if I have a great oline, with an average oline any decent defensive front 7 will shut you down. On the other hand a great back can make plays themselves with or without the linemen, although the line can still help. On defense if you have a weak secondary then you had better have a line that can cause pressure, etc. In madden on the other hand, I can take colt brennen, have him throw to malcolm kelly, ramses barden, and chaz schillens and have him put up huge numbers. I can take a ian johnson and make him a great back even with an average line. I can take cliff avril and make him a 25 sack player. Ratings are basically irrelevant, especially if you are controlling the player.
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Old 09-28-2009, 03:37 AM   #5
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

As for people wanting to see a difference in better players, and an 'abiliity' system in Madden? You missed it. It was called the 'Weapons' system.
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Old 09-28-2009, 03:41 AM   #6
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

2K8 and their player range system, non tier to gold, makes that game to me. I just wish there was more substance to that game mode wise.
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:17 AM   #7
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Echopax
Alright, first off, every game of Madden feels the exact same. It doesn't matter who the CPU QB is. Whether it's Peyton Manning, Jay Cutler, Dree Brees, or Jarmacus Russell. All of them play the exact same.
I greatly disagree.

My Ravens franchise and my Raiders franchise and my fantasy Bucs franchise all feel very different in the passing game.

Completing passes with Russell is a nightmare (as is Josh Freeman...), while using Sanchez is more reliable if I call a west coast style game, while Flacco is streaky. Pat White let's me fear the blitz less...though when I escape and throw the ball - pray.

On defense - I feel the difference between fast and slow LBs. I feel the difference between the 3-4 and 4-3 (I hate the 4-3). I feel the difference between having a good D-Line and one that's pretty darn average.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Echopax
The same goes with defense. This is my huge beef with Madden. In APF2K8, I dare you to throw in the vicinity of Charles Woodson or a gold corner. They can totally take your receiver out of the game. That is, you can't sneak any money plays on them. Slant? Nope, they'll jump it and pick it. Over the top? They'll stay step for step with your WR and bat it down. Screen? You'll get rocked.
Wow - sounds like the DBs are too good! Even the best DBs in real life give up completions and occassional big plays. This sounds like they stop anything and everything that comes their way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Echopax
In Madden, I can spam the same play, game in and game in, pre-patch or post patch, year in and year out, and go 16-0. I can't do that in APF2K8. Why? Their AI is marginally better. Madden needs a system like APF2k8, it's as simple as that. If EA stays on the same track, it just goes to show you how arrogant they are.
Heck, I can't go 16-0 in Madden. I guess I suck or have made my sliders too hard for me *shrug* I'm currently 1-2 with my Raiders franchise, 4-2 with my Ravens franchise, and 2-1 with my fantasy Bucs franchise.
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:30 AM   #8
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

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Originally Posted by MattyT
As for people wanting to see a difference in better players, and an 'abiliity' system in Madden? You missed it. It was called the 'Weapons' system.
Weapons system changed nothing, same exact players and ratings, just little icons under them to point them out. Its not about wanting to see a difference in players, its about gameplay changes.

The whole numerical ratings system is off. First off, one person doing it doesn't exactly scream parody. Some NFL players had and have a skill set not found in 1-100 ratings, sorry.

Perfect example is Barry Sanders. How do you rate the guy in a 1-100 attribute wise. He simply did things that no other back could, does that mean he becomes the standard in elusive backs? What he had was more than just a set of numbers, it was a skill set only he has.

Still if you tried to rate him do you give him 100 in Accel / Agility / Vision / Awareness and then hold ever back to a lesser standard? What if you thought Gale Sayers was a better back, what now?

APF made you give players specific abilities that separated them from each other, it was alot more than just numbers swapping around. Take a quick run with Natrone Means and then switch to Eric Bieniemy, two bronze guys with totally different feels. Neither are garbage, but both require different running styles from the player.

Run some pass plays with Jerry Rice and compare him to Steve Tasker. Rice will play better but not just because he is faster, he is quicker in and out of cuts runs cleaner routes and makes adjustments on the ball. You wont see him making the special teams plays that many say should get Steve Tasker in the HOF though.

Want some modern day examples of "clutch" (which is found in APF) that you never seen in Madden. Ray Lewis blows up an inside run to seal a game last week. Brett Favre makes a last ditch Hail Mary look like a play he drew up with no way of failing. Those two guys have been doing it for years, but not in every single game.

In APF your forced to hand pick your team, not have one handed to you. You choose guys that make a difference in your game and then go out and use them accordingly.

Last edited by RMoody; 09-28-2009 at 04:35 AM.
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:41 AM   #9
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

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Originally Posted by RMoody
Weapons system changed nothing, same exact players and ratings, just little icons under them to point them out. Its not about wanting to see a difference in players, its about gameplay changes.

The whole numerical ratings system is off. First off, one person doing it doesn't exactly scream parody. Some NFL players have and had a skill set not found in 1-100 ratings, sorry.

Prefect example is Barry Sanders. How do you rate the guy in a 1-100 attribute wise. He simply did things that no other back could, does that mean he becomes the standard in elusive backs? What he had was more than just a set of numbers, it was a skill set only he has.

Still if you tried to rate him do you give him 100 in Accel / Agility / Vision / Awareness and then hold ever back to a lesser standard? What if you thought Gale Sayers was a better back, what now?

APF made you give players specific abilities that separated them from each other, it was alot more than just numbers swapping around. Take a quick run with Natron Means and then switch to Eric Bieniemy, two bronze guys with totally different feels.

Run some pass plays with Jerry Rice and compare him to Steve Tasker. Rice will play better but not just because he is faster, he is quicker in and out of cuts runs cleaner routes and makes adjustments on the ball. You wont see him making the special teams plays that many say should get Steve Tasker in the HOF though.

Want some modern day examples of "clutch" (which is found in APF) that you never seen in Madden. Ray Lewis blows up an inside run to seal a game last week. Brett Favre makes a last ditch Hail Mary look like a play he drew up with no way of failing. Those two guys have been doing it for years, but not in every single game.
Let me ask this: How would 2k8's system work in a multi-year franchise?

Their system works because it was made specifically to replicate 240 (mostly)well known players. How well would it work on guys that we don't know that much about yet? How do you deal with player progression and new draft classes?
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:51 AM   #10
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

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Originally Posted by RaiderKtulu
Let me ask this: How would 2k8's system work in a multi-year franchise?

Their system works because it was made specifically to replicate 240 (mostly)well known players. How well would it work on guys that we don't know that much about yet? How do you deal with player progression and new draft classes?
Its a one year "all or nothing franchise". In all honesty, the game was built for online play. You build your team, I build mine and we play.

Madden has caused alot of players to lose trust in online gameplay. Most people either play only people they know or run the risk of dealing with cheese. Its sad that game issues cant be held in check enough for people to confidently play random opponents.

In franchise IR doesnt work properly, players turn down contracts with you only to sign for 1/3rd the amount to another CPU team.

The list of "Madden house rules" I most commonly see around here are , only use the "Ask Madden" play. Run out of bounds right after an INT. No passes to the flats. If I have to self govern my gameplay to make up for what the game lacks, then I might aswell not even bother.

Im not saying 2k8 doesnt have its set of issues, the game is very stripped down. Im not saying people dont cheese either. However the issues it has are far fewer and less game impacting than M10.

2k8 has a very good rating system which allows you to quickly assess the person challenging you and if you feel they play fair or not.

Last edited by RMoody; 09-28-2009 at 04:53 AM.
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