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QB Vision Cone - Bring it back (with a caveat)

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Old 09-04-2009, 03:01 PM   #41
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Re: QB Vision Cone - Bring it back (with a caveat)

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe
The problem with the cone is it doesnt represent what its suppose to! One QB's vision isnt better than another. Its not that Mick Vick cant see the field well its the fact that he cant decipher defenses quick enough and his inconsistency as a passer.

I would like to see the progression system(aka double tap). It will force you to make pre-snap reads and whats more sim than that. QB's with lesser AWR will change WR slower making it harder to look off defenders.
Eh, it kinda represents awareness well.

You're right, recognizing coverages is in essence what makes a QB mentally "good", but since the user is controlling the player, he will essentially play the same regardless of what QB he is using.

So you have to represent this in another, more mechanical manner. The cone is perfect. It is a key for programming the game. Give defenders something tangible to look at instead of being psychic.

Your second idea, IMO, is not good, it would essentially make the game feel sluggish or even that the controls don't work.

Being sim should always take into consideration that this is a video game and it needs to reward proper decision making/timing/reflexes of the user.

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Old 09-04-2009, 03:04 PM   #42
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Re: QB Vision Cone - Bring it back (with a caveat)

well said, sois
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:17 PM   #43
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Re: QB Vision Cone - Bring it back (with a caveat)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sois
Eh, it kinda represents awareness well.

You're right, recognizing coverages is in essence what makes a QB mentally "good", but since the user is controlling the player, he will essentially play the same regardless of what QB he is using.

So you have to represent this in another, more mechanical manner. The cone is perfect. It is a key for programming the game. Give defenders something tangible to look at instead of being psychic.

Your second idea, IMO, is not good, it would essentially make the game feel sluggish or even that the controls don't work.

Being sim should always take into consideration that this is a video game and it needs to reward proper decision making/timing/reflexes of the user.
True sim has to be relative to a videogame. I think the double tap will have similar penalties without that God awful cone! LOL
I dont think it will be too sluggish.
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:21 PM   #44
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Re: QB Vision Cone - Bring it back (with a caveat)

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That's EXACTLY what I am suggesting.

I LOVED that implementation.
I actually liked using the Right Stick to survey the field. Seemed more natural to me.
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:28 PM   #45
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Re: QB Vision Cone - Bring it back (with a caveat)

I dont get it, why do we need a flashlight to look off a db, wouldnt just a head rotate via right stick,etc..do the same and look much better? Im sorry but this feature for me is as arcade blitz as it gets. I cant believe we are talking vision cone 2010. I want a sim game of Sunday, not a football simulator.

Anyway, if they make it a option, Id want the option to completely turn it off in the menu, not like before, when you bumped the right stick on accident and the thing pops up!!!! This was horrible!

Last edited by wheelman990; 09-04-2009 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:28 PM   #46
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Re: QB Vision Cone - Bring it back (with a caveat)

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Originally Posted by sois
I loved the cone.

I wasn't a double tapper though. I set the cone looking straight forward, which is where I would be looking if I was really playing.

In my mind I know where the routes are going so all I had to do was look for the appropriate spot to throw the ball, move the stick and fire. It was much easier if you didn't lock it onto a receiver.

Bring the cone back!
That is one of the reasons why I liked using the stick as well. Yes with the double tap method you can get to the receiver you want a little faster, but it made things a little more difficult to play games with the defense.

When I use the Vision Cone, you never knew who I was going to throw to until I actually threw it, because I would make a concerted effort to look all over the field, but not at the person i was gonna throw to until the last second. For me it was easier to just sway the cone around with the Right Stick. After years of FPS gaming it was as natural as breathing lol.
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:32 PM   #47
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Re: QB Vision Cone - Bring it back (with a caveat)

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Originally Posted by Pared
Ahh. Great point. I'd love to see it implemented correctly then, with defense in mind, if this is the case.



Here's what I would do:

Hold LT to pass. This brings up the cone. You can actually eliminate this step if you make it an option.

The first tap brings up the receiver icon. You'd know what they are by reading the play pre-snap. (This may be an issue for head to head two player games on the same TV)

The second tap releases the ball. A tap and HOLD on this method will result in a fake to that specific guy. You can alternatively use LB if you don't like this to fake.

A QB can't just go around faking anywhere, they fake to specific guys. This allows the defender to think the WR is running a short curl/in/out route, bite on the fake, then lead the WR.

You would also need to eliminate the lob/bullet passing mechanic if you went with the tap and hold method. Of course, the game should be "smart enough" to recognize where your WR is running and lead them with the appropriate pass, depending on the route.

All this off the top of my head. Of course if I had to implement this into the game, I'd have to flesh it out much more thoroughly.
Excellent point and one that I am surprised that opponents of the VC don't understand. Without looking at a specific receiver, what is the point of a even having a fake? What you pump faked the entire defense lol?
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:41 PM   #48
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Re: QB Vision Cone - Bring it back (with a caveat)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelman990
I dont get it, why do we need a flashlight to look off a db, wouldnt just a head rotate via right stick,etc..do the same and look much better? Im sorry but this feature for me is as arcade blitz as it gets. I cant believe we are talking vision cone 2010. I want a sim game of Sunday, not a football simulator.

Anyway, if they make it a option, Id want the option to completely turn it off in the menu, not like before, when you bumped the right stick on accident and the thing pops up!!!! This was horrible!
I understand that people would think that the yellow cone is an eyesore to the game. Heck I think so too lol, but you say that they should simulate the QB rotating his head would be better. Ok... how do you represent the QB looking off a DB, or looking period without some kind of cone? It is not going to be possible with this view. You can have the Right Stick rotate the QB's head, but how do you know exactly where he is looking without some kind of indicator?

Unless you go with the idea that Natural Motion has for BackBreaker's passing and change the camera angle, I don't see how you can simulate the QB looking without some kind of visual representation. Maybe they can make one that is less garish, but it would have to have something if it isn't a BackBreaker style camera system.
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