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Ever notice Madden would sometimes seem to "Cheat" or go full "Beast Mode" on you?

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Old 11-17-2014, 12:37 PM   #33
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Re: Ever notice Madden would sometimes seem to "Cheat" or go full "Beast Mode" on you

Quote:
Originally Posted by midero
One thing I wonder about is a play-action I ran a few weeks ago against the Cowboys. Their safety followed my WR Dansby and I had Edelman wide open cuz of that, the moment I pressed the button to throw it to Edelman their safety suddenly switched from Dansby to Edelman and tipped the pass away. I thought this was very very odd so I looked at the replay, could see that their safety switched from Dansby to Edelman before Mallett even started to make the throw……considering that the safety was some 50 yards away from Mallett it was impossible for him to read his eyes.

Now if that isn’t cheating then I don’t know what is...
The AI responds to the button push, not the animations. I've known this for years.
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:07 PM   #34
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Re: Ever notice Madden would sometimes seem to "Cheat" or go full "Beast Mode" on you

As for the Ai responding to the route ran, I've had stupidly obvious times where I'd hot route a guy and the safety playing cover three ran right to the spot where I would have thrown the ball without hot routing and instead I get a guy running by himself down the field

Another question: Is there any code that allows the cpu to realize a game needs to be made closer? I never see it in blowout but if I supersim to the fourth quarter of a game to save time per say, once I come in it seems as if the computer "Cheats" to pull within one score.

I've made a thread on it and just last night I had more cases or DBs facing the opposite way and beating my receiver to the ball after making a cut, passes hitting guys in the facemask on curls and qbs throwing 5 yard spot routes right into the deep safetys chest...
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:43 PM   #35
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Re: Ever notice Madden would sometimes seem to "Cheat" or go full "Beast Mode" on you

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Originally Posted by KANE699
Why can't more people like you work for EA? They always seem to be hiring software engineers/programmers.
What makes you think I'm not a software programmer?

I'm not, but I do have a friend that works for a dev up in WA area that works on a fairly popular multi-platform F2P game. I'm a hardware guy myself, but I know a little bit about a little bit of how some types of games "work" so to speak. And I've contributed on some mods and done some of my own stuff as well. The way I've stumbled upon PLYT function actually has a simple explanation; I'm building a 70+ formation, 800+ play playbook for 08. It only has roughly 15 route concepts though so its really pretty simple to run/use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise408
The AI responds to the button push, not the animations. I've known this for years.
Unfortunately that traces back all the way to SNES. IRL the idea is to make throws that aren't open yet, but will be when the ball arrives; in Madden it is a balance of waiting as long as possible on a route that is already open before making the throw, to increase the distance of other defenders from making the "mystical magic pass defense maneuver", versus waiting too long and watching the window close as another defender enters the area. If the NFL is all about small windows, then Madden is all about barn doors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenbuk75
As for the Ai responding to the route ran, I've had stupidly obvious times where I'd hot route a guy and the safety playing cover three ran right to the spot where I would have thrown the ball without hot routing and instead I get a guy running by himself down the field

Another question: Is there any code that allows the cpu to realize a game needs to be made closer? I never see it in blowout but if I supersim to the fourth quarter of a game to save time per say, once I come in it seems as if the computer "Cheats" to pull within one score.

I've made a thread on it and just last night I had more cases or DBs facing the opposite way and beating my receiver to the ball after making a cut, passes hitting guys in the facemask on curls and qbs throwing 5 yard spot routes right into the deep safetys chest...
Supersim is its own beast entirely. From what I have read about it, it functions differently than regular siming, and also works differently from in-game play as well. I remember on 09 (I think) playing a game and going into supersim to get through the 4th quarter. Well the supersim play-by-play went something like 5 or 6 plays before it froze and the whole game needed rebooted; needless to say I rebooted the save and went into supersim again and low and behold the supersim gave the exact same play-by-play stats the second time as it had the first, except it didn't freeze that time. I tested it again on the next game of the season and it wasn't identical but the results were nearly the same after 3 or 4 sim-then-quit sessions, so I permanently gave up on supersim right then and there. Never used it again. So I wonder if it isn't just something that the supersim script loads at the start of each game and then goes by regardless of score or not?
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:02 PM   #36
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Re: Ever notice Madden would sometimes seem to "Cheat" or go full "Beast Mode" on you

Quote:
Originally Posted by midero
One thing I wonder about is a play-action I ran a few weeks ago against the Cowboys. Their safety followed my WR Dansby and I had Edelman wide open cuz of that, the moment I pressed the button to throw it to Edelman their safety suddenly switched from Dansby to Edelman and tipped the pass away. I thought this was very very odd so I looked at the replay, could see that their safety switched from Dansby to Edelman before Mallett even started to make the throw……considering that the safety was some 50 yards away from Mallett it was impossible for him to read his eyes.

Now if that isn’t cheating then I don’t know what is...
You know this issue has been around forever now, but it could have a very simple fix.

If the Defense is playing zone coverage across the board it is simple, every player facing the QB when the ball releases can immediately begin to change direction and head toward the area where the ball is being passed. So a code of about 0.75 seconds delay after the button is pressed (to allow for the QB throw animation) for all players facing the QB would be pretty easy to implement. Every player in zone who has turned away from the QB would work differently, just like everyone in Man coverage would.

In Man or Zone (not facing QB) the answer is simple. There needs to be a code that introduces a delay to each player based on their AWR rating (lets make it actually do something after 25 years). Players, who can't see the QB of course, need to continue to cover their active assignment for a certain amount of time after the button press for a pass, the AWR rating itself would act as a modifier, lets say >1 second. Meaning a 99 or 100 AWR defender wouldn't begin to break their assignment for exactly 1 full second after the button action is pressed (roughly 1/4 of a second after the ball leaves the QB's hand), and every player with an AWR of less than 100 would continue their assignment longer. Maybe a 0 Awareness player continues his assignment for say, 4 seconds after the button is pressed to begin the QB pass animation. So a 33 AWR would have a 3 second delay, and a 66 AWR would have a 2 second delay, and any other AWR would delay according to the coded modifier.

Not exactly rocket science really, but after 25 years, alas, still a significant gameplay issue.

Last edited by trey31; 11-17-2014 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 11-18-2014, 12:43 PM   #37
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Re: Ever notice Madden would sometimes seem to "Cheat" or go full "Beast Mode" on you

I have noticed that the AI gets much better in two-minute drills and 2nd half. I can have a great first half and then have 3 turnovers in the first minute of the 3rd qtr to bring the game back to a close game. It almost never fails. Granted, some of the ints were my fault, but the number of fumbles in the 3rd qtr is absurd.
Once the half hits the 2 min mark, I have to keep the ball out of the AI hands. I can't stop any pass, even guys in triple coverage, and they get passes off when the QB has defenders all over him. He even gets nailed and doesn't go down. The AI def in the 2 min seems about the same. But since it's impossible to complete a long pass now, I have no ability to run a 2min drill. I have to go short to the sidelines, but the computer can bomb out an 80 pass or have the RB break a million tackels for a 90 yard run.
Playoffs.... don't even think about playofffs!
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Old 11-18-2014, 02:56 PM   #38
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Re: Ever notice Madden would sometimes seem to "Cheat" or go full "Beast Mode" on you

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathteacherct
I have noticed that the AI gets much better in two-minute drills and 2nd half. I can have a great first half and then have 3 turnovers in the first minute of the 3rd qtr to bring the game back to a close game. It almost never fails. Granted, some of the ints were my fault, but the number of fumbles in the 3rd qtr is absurd.
Once the half hits the 2 min mark, I have to keep the ball out of the AI hands. I can't stop any pass, even guys in triple coverage, and they get passes off when the QB has defenders all over him. He even gets nailed and doesn't go down. The AI def in the 2 min seems about the same. But since it's impossible to complete a long pass now, I have no ability to run a 2min drill. I have to go short to the sidelines, but the computer can bomb out an 80 pass or have the RB break a million tackels for a 90 yard run.
Playoffs.... don't even think about playofffs!

I usually only see this in the closer games, although I like the fact the cpu is just in rhythm in 2-3 drives a game like a good qb would be in the nfl, it's just maddening (pun intended) to see throws to checkdowns fly 15 yards downfield for a cheap interception or your 99 carrying le'veon bell fumble on a grazing hit

Although, NOTHING is as bad as NFL Street 1s rubberband AI so thank the dear lord EA hasnt brought that back
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Old 11-19-2014, 12:13 AM   #39
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Re: Ever notice Madden would sometimes seem to "Cheat" or go full "Beast Mode" on you

Yup and it gets real funky when I come out pass audible to a run and see the defense shift and move around to stop the run
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:24 AM   #40
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Re: Ever notice Madden would sometimes seem to "Cheat" or go full "Beast Mode" on you

Quote:
Originally Posted by trey31
Unfortunately that traces back all the way to SNES. IRL the idea is to make throws that aren't open yet, but will be when the ball arrives; in Madden it is a balance of waiting as long as possible on a route that is already open before making the throw, to increase the distance of other defenders from making the "mystical magic pass defense maneuver", versus waiting too long and watching the window close as another defender enters the area. If the NFL is all about small windows, then Madden is all about barn doors.
This is a problem I've always had with Madden. You can't "throw people open" like you would in real life. Very rarely can you throw to a spot and complete the pass without the defenders becoming psychic and responding to your button press. You have to wait until the reciever gets open, and then hope that the window is big enough to where these psychic CPU defenders can't pick it off, even if they are looking elsewhere when you throw it.
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