Will we see something showing the tuning to the lineman and zig zag running?

[rudyjuly2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

EDIT*- Wanted to ask is anybody aware of when zig-zag running became possible in Madden? I have been looking at some old next-gen Maddens on Youtube and can't pinpoint when this became prevalent. Did it originate in M11?

I personally believe this happened on day one for 360/PS3 users. It's been in every next gen EA football game imo. It wasn't like this in the old XBox/PS2 days.

I remember 6-7 years ago thinking about upgrading to next gen and my brother lent me his 360 so I could play NCAA 07. I was immediately turned off by the way the players moved. I didn't like it and after a couple games I just gave the system back to him and passed on upgrading. I eventually upgraded the next year to a PS3 after a price drop hoping the football games would be a lot better but they have never fixed this issue which is why I totally believe it's intentional (and NCAA 08 sucked, bad decision to upgrade for football).

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

I'm trying to figure out a way to accelerate/decelerate by using the speed differences between cover ball, sprint, and normal running along with centering the L-stick for small fraction (sorta stutter-stuff type stuff) Nothing conclusive yet.

Using my speedy HB Easton Reed in my offline franchise, I find that I can do this accel/decel type movement by using the different speeds between L1 (cover ball), R2 (sprint) and nothing. Then when I can combine it with a R2 + juke move in the same direction.

For example, I hit Reed in the flat but he's got two zone defenders with eyes on him, I went normal speed at "2:30", or ENE if compass directions make more sense to you, then hit sprint, turned to NE/2 o'clock, and juke right. That made Reed burst, sort of stutter-step (the juke animation, but sprinting seemed to change it a bit), and then the combo of his speed rating + the defenders stumbling a bit on his juke got him to turn a 3 yard loss into a 6 yard gain.

But I think you need a speed advantage to make it work. If I was using my full back or #2 HB (only 91 SPD), I don't think he would have made the edge or as many yards, even if the juke faked them out. The fact you need to be faster in SPD (and not ACC) is kinda a downer. Though, most of the people in my franchise have 90-something ACC anyway, so maybe that's why SPD was the determining factor.

The other issue might be fatigue. Since I have 100 fatigue, the defenders could have been tiring while Reed was fresher. So I don't know if this works on 50 fatigue. Or 50 speed threshold for that matter (I use 16).

Unfortunately, I forgot about this thread when I did the play or I would have put up a video.

[tazdevil20]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Using my speedy HB Easton Reed in my offline franchise, I find that I can do this accel/decel type movement by using the different speeds between L1 (cover ball), R2 (sprint) and nothing. Then when I can combine it with a R2 + juke move in the same direction. For example, I hit Reed in the flat but he's got two zone defenders with eyes on him, I went normal speed at "2:30", or ENE if compass directions make more sense to you, then hit sprint, turned to NE/2 o'clock, and juke right. That made Reed burst, sort of stutter-step (the juke animation, but sprinting seemed to change it a bit), and then the combo of his speed rating + the defenders stumbling a bit on his juke got him to turn a 3 yard loss into a 6 yard gain. But I think you need a speed advantage to make it work. If I was using my full back or #2 HB (only 91 SPD), I don't think he would have made the edge or as many yards, even if the juke faked them out. The fact you need to be faster in SPD (and not ACC) is kinda a downer. Though, most of the people in my franchise have 90-something ACC anyway, so maybe that's why SPD was the determining factor. The other issue might be fatigue. Since I have 100 fatigue, the defenders could have been tiring while Reed was fresher. So I don't know if this works on 50 fatigue. Or 50 speed threshold for that matter (I use 16). Unfortunately, I forgot about this thread when I did the play or I would have put up a video.

I applaud your patience and persistence in coming up with these insane slider combinactions . I would never be able to sit down and do that.

[JMP]

My guess, sadly enough, is no regarding momentum. I know Big FN Deal has looked back at 10, and I have too, and the degree to which they've sped up the game from 10 to 12 is almost unbelievable. It's only going to get faster, which means that momentum is going to become less and less important, I think, and that's in real terms, not what the company line is likely to be regarding the Infinity engine and its physics capabilities.

KBLover is the man for coming up with a momentum calculus, but I'm getting to the point where I'd almost rather play an old game than make a new one play better. Sounds crazy, I'm sure, but that's where I'm at. If these games get any faster and less tied to real momentum and movement principles, I just won't be able to play them 'cause I'm getting too old .

I'm totally speculating, but I think one reason to continue having almost no restrictions on how you can move in the game is that the company and players alike want to see lots of big plays--big zig-zag runs where you also spin at 100 MPH to make the S whiff and score with a bloated speed rating; big picks where you turn the hips so quickly that they should dislocate to nab a pick on a deep route. That's what makes Madden "Madden" and makes it fun to a LOT of people.

I'm not saying any of it's wrong or right or that the company should do one thing over the other, but by comparing the last 3 games on this issue, and just by thinking about the game experience Madden delivers if you play it without lots of house rules, I think things are not likely to go back to "heavier" player models in future games.

Could be totally wrong, but that's my hunch. The best you can do is enjoy the game for what it is, I think, 'cause we all want it to be something slightly different.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trojan Man

I'm not saying any of it's wrong or right...

Well, I'll say it's wrong because it's not realistic and ignores both physics and football principles.

At least, it's wrong if they are true to wanting to give us a realistic football game.

I agree with trying to enjoy it for what it is if you can, and I will try to make it closer to that for my taste and skill level (it's the modder in me), but still...

[Big FN Deal]

Just for the record, I keep harping on the difference in M10 player movement/change of direction but Illustrator76 is the person that alerted me to it a while back. I actually thought he was talking out his arse when he first told me about until I finally took his advice and downloaded the M10 demo again.

In my defense though, he is a long time Detroit Lions fan so it should be understandable why I initially questioned his judgement. LOL

[Jimi XIII]

You know, they must be doing some serious tweaking still. They haven't released anything besides the stuff they showed during their E3 presentation.

[rudyjuly2]

@SimFBallCritic on Twitter said zig-zag running is still in Madden 13 and will be released that way. I do think we will see an improvement in this next year just as NHL has seen yearly additions to their physics engine but no point in begging for it this year.

[speedy9386]

Quote: Originally Posted by rudyjuly2

@SimFBallCritic on Twitter said zig-zag running is still in Madden 13 and will be released that way. I do think we will see an improvement in this next year just as NHL has seen yearly additions to their physics engine but no point in begging for it this year.

FINALLY a straight forward answer. Sucks that it's still in the game hopefully they fix it next year.

[Illustrator76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Just for the record, I keep harping on the difference in M10 player movement/change of direction but Illustrator76 is the person that alerted me to it a while back. I actually thought he was talking out his arse when he first told me about until I finally took his advice and downloaded the M10 demo again. In my defense though, he is a long time Detroit Lions fan so it should be understandable why I initially questioned his judgement. LOL

Yes, good thing you (being a Redskins fan) can always consult with the great Daniel Snyder before believing or doing something completely stupid...oh wait...

BTW, if you guys are still looking for a Running Back, tell old Danny Boy that I am 35 years old, probably too heavy for the position and that I couldn't outrun a garbage can. I am sure that's worth a least a 2 year deal around those parts.