Chess not checkers/Cleats not iceskates. The problem with player movement

[kingsofthevalley]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

I 100% agree with you guys that I'm sick of the lack of momentum and the zig-zagging and nonsense BUT I'd just like to point out that, as a veteran of these forums, I distinctly recall the PS2 days when momentum was added the OUTRAGE that exploded on these forums from people who complained that their players now were like turning large boats and they didn't feel as if they were controlling their players. The outrage from those folks on here and from casual folks was much more than from folks like us in this thread who supported momentum, realistic running even though it means a bit of loss of user control. It's for that reason that this request of ours, to go back to realistic momentum, is never going to happen...not on this gen or next.... Sorry guys, but that's the truth and it's not a good truth for us...

Have to disagree with you on this one man. I'm under the impression that slowly but surely, they're moving back to that straight sim style with Weber at the helm. I'm going out on a limb and stating that for Madden/NCAA 14.......its coming back, I can smell it. You gotta remember, that Madden/NCAA sold the same if not more with the realistic movement of the PS2 days. Oh, they're gonna buy it.

Same with us, we complain about the arcade movement, but its Madden. You will buy it. So when the realistic movement makes a return (which I believe is in the works) the casual crowd are gonna complain about it and be in the store day one for the purchase period. Sales didn't drop when realistic movement was present, sales aint gonna drop when it returns. Them casual dudes are going to suck it up just like we've been doing for the past 8 years. They'll live.

Dont worry about it, Weber and the team are gonna come through with that real grind time smash mouth football again. I'm standing by.

[kingsofthevalley]

Quote: Originally Posted by kingsofthevalley

Have to disagree with you on this one man. I'm under the impression that slowly but surely, they're moving back to that straight sim style with Weber at the helm. I'm going out on a limb and stating that for Madden/NCAA 14.......its coming back, I can smell it. You gotta remember, that Madden/NCAA sold the same if not more with the realistic movement of the PS2 days. Oh, they're gonna buy it. Same with us, we complain about the arcade movement, but its Madden. You will buy it. So when the realistic movement makes a return (which I believe is in the works) the casual crowd are gonna complain about it and be in the store day one for the purchase period. Sales didn't drop when realistic movement was present, sales aint gonna drop when it returns. Them casual dudes are going to suck it up just like we've been doing for the past 8 years. They'll live. Dont worry about it, Weber and the team are gonna come through with that real grind time smash mouth football again. I'm standing by.

Oh yeah, and I dont recall the dev team EVER saying it wasn't going back to how its supposed to be. Only thing I remember is Ian saying that (blasphemous lol) focus group complained about the movement and they changed it, I never heard em say it wasn't going back. I look at it like this....What goes around comes around....nothing new under the sun. Kinda like these young hogs (young generation) out here sporting flat tops and wearing tight clothes. **** aint new, we talk about them but we have to remember that in the 80's we dressed the same exact way.

Hey man, the sim crowd had our run for a few years during the PS2 days. Then we switched generations and the arcade tourney crowd has had their run for the past 8 years. Time to bring it back home. Lets go.

[CRMosier_LM]

So you are saying let's slow down offensive and.defensive.player movement but still allow.the QB to throw anywhere on the field without repercussions?!? If you do that it will.become a.completely one sided game of nothing but offense. You can take out zig sagging but it affects both sides of the ball and creates the same stalemate we see now, yet the qb doesn't have to "see" the receiver he is throwing at? I'm not even talking vision cone necessarily but SOMETHING in there representing realism. Yes the vision cone was realistic in idea but cumbersome in application. I'm just not understanding WHY one is more important than the other. It shouldn't be really if you think.about it.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by kingsofthevalley

Have to disagree with you on this one man. I'm under the impression that slowly but surely, they're moving back to that straight sim style with Weber at the helm. I'm going out on a limb and stating that for Madden/NCAA 14.......its coming back, I can smell it.

This is one case where I hope to hell I'm wrong and you're right. I've just gotten used to the idea that EA football games will always be an arcade/sim hybrid and that's how it is.

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM

So you are saying let's slow down offensive and.defensive.player movement but still allow.the QB to throw anywhere on the field without repercussions?!? If you do that it will.become a.completely one sided game of nothing but offense. You can take out zig sagging but it affects both sides of the ball and creates the same stalemate we see now, yet the qb doesn't have to "see" the receiver he is throwing at? I'm not even talking vision cone necessarily but SOMETHING in there representing realism. Yes the vision cone was realistic in idea but cumbersome in application. I'm just not understanding WHY one is more important than the other. It shouldn't be really if you think.about it. Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

I'm not really following this argument. Slowing down the player movements doesn't really give the QB a big advantage if the defenders react appropriately.

[Smoke6]

This happens all the time on KR and Punt Returns, the players in pursuit would change direction clearly around a defender to get to the ball carrier and its very unrealistic at how it is in this game.

I remember the "turn radius" video that IAN or someone posted a few years back and it seems it has digressed back to its arcade roots.

Like I have always been saying and wanting to know, What does EA want madden to be, SIM or ARCADE?

Thats it and thats all, I can rest a lot easier and know that I cant get into these types of threads and debates again!

[JMP]

IDK if this jumps to mind for many people when discussing player movement, but I HATE the movement associated with "Big Hitter" players as they tackle.

We all know players launch at ball carriers in the NFL, but in this year's attempt to replicate hard NFL hits, we have animations that make it look like the offensive player has been hit with a missile right in the chest, or hit with a missile in the foot. I'd say I see 20 big hits per Madden game, and if you get a few real slobber knockers in a real game you're getting on Sports Center.

There has to be a way to redo that whole thing so that player movement in the tackling arena looks better. Guys should still be able to make significant hits, but they have to look and move differently imo in order for them to be realistic at all.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

This happens all the time on KR and Punt Returns, the players in pursuit would change direction clearly around a defender to get to the ball carrier and its very unrealistic at how it is in this game. I remember the "turn radius" video that IAN or someone posted a few years back and it seems it has digressed back to its arcade roots. Like I have always been saying and wanting to know, What does EA want madden to be, SIM or ARCADE? Thats it and thats all, I can rest a lot easier and know that I cant get into these types of threads and debates again!

Don't know WHAT happened to this stuff.

[Big FN Deal]

I had been searching for those videos, not hard enough I guess. Nice find Sage.

My hope is that, like they mentioned with read and react being a completion of procedural awareness back from M10, that that other stuff is too. Meaning that M13 will truly be a "perfect storm" of past Madden features with solid NFL premises coming together, like Cam Weber mentioned.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by SageInfinite

This looks like the one I played with in my CD days. If so, it's not showing half of what was there. It's showing TURNS, which I think are good. But it's not showing cuts. If you flipped the stick instead of rolling it, the ball carrier would plant & go. You could jab step, jab step & go. It was beautiful. You wouldn't need the juke button.

This is what had me thinking Madden was on it's way back then. Unfortunately, it never made the cut. I believe Ian said the problem was getting defenders to understand how to use the footwork. They were overrunning tackles because they didn't know when to break down, plant, etc.

Quote: Originally Posted by SageInfinite

This is how ALL players should move. Obviously some have better feet than others and wouldn't be as nimble, and animations would be different when players are carrying the ball or defending.

There's way more planting than turning when I watch football, especially with quicker players.