QB Vision

[Ampking101]

I've seen some posts about things that have been introduced in other games and that they should bring back the vision cone (which I like the idea hated the implement). The one thing I've been thinking of lately that would be interesting and make passing much more of a simulation is instead of being able to see the entire field, if the camera zoomed into the QB as the ball was hiked. Not to a major degree or anything but just enough so that you would see a good part of the field but not the entirety as you do now.

Now I know they have the zoomed camera angle but here is what would make it interesting, instead of the vision cone, you had the right stick move the camera from left to right and even slightly up the field (cause to be honest I hardly ever see anyone use the right stick in the pocket). What it could ultimately do is make it so that you make your reads one by one instead of watching the entire play like a spectator. They could also implement it by adding player movement so that when you turn the QBs head it actually turns to that part of the field and in that sense you could watch the QBs "eyes" so to speak. That way there isn't the arcadey vision cone (which lets be honest it was very arcade like) and it instead turns it to a more realistic QB experience.

I don't know maybe it's just me that thought that way and it may be because I was playing a FPS right before I went to play some football but I thought it would just be an interesting mechanic to add.

What do you guys think?

[HighCmpPct]

I like what your saying here. I was also excited about the vision cone prospect but there really just isn't enough time to use it.

I really like your idea it could open up the possibility of the user actually having to look off a safety and give you the ability to actually read a QB's eyes on defense. (you know getting fooled by a Brady or Rodgers, and catching a rookie eyeing his top WR)

Only thing I would have different from what you said is I don't know about using the right stick. Only reason being you would be using the same finger you have to pass with. What I would like is maybe you use a top button like you do to scramble, then use the left stick to look around so you would have your "Passing Thumb" free. LOL

[moneal2001]

No on using the thumbstick to move the camera, as the other poster said it would get in the way of hitting the pass buttons. I think they could use a modifier button to allow you to move the vision cone to the receiver you are going to throw to: R2 + triangle would move the cone to the triangle receiver if it is not already on him, if he was already in the cone of vision it would just throw to that receiver.

this would give a small advantage to QBs with better awareness like manning and brady. since their cones would be larger and cover most of the field.

[TMJOHNS18]

Only other way I could think of is that they used the R2/L2 or R/L trigger as the throw button. Basically, kinda like in Backbreaker, you have to look at the receiver you're going to throw to and they become shaded or something and it'll mean that your QB can throw it to them. Then, depending on how far you push the trigger down, it will effect the amount of arm strength put into the throw.

Maybe QB's with higher AWR will identify receivers quicker and if there are two receivers in close proximity they will opt for the one with a better chance of a reception.

The only problem with moving the actual camera would be avoiding the pass rush. If I'm looking down the far sideline I will not be able to tell if there's a DE or rusher about to take me out.

What would be best would be to try out new control idea's in the Superstar mode. The mode itself is basically broken and stripped down, why not try out new ideas within it and see get some feedback.

If I was EA, I would experiment with a new QB throwing system in Superstar. Something that was drastically different. Wouldn't matter if it was a flop because all you would have to do is give the choice between Superstar controls and Classic. But, I doubt EA would do this since the only thing Superstar mode does is introduce NCAA player lock to Madden.

[mjhyankees]

I thought the old cone was fine...not perfect...but fine. The Qb's with greater awareness had a much bigger cone, basically simulating the ability to go through a progression. The Tavaris Jacksons of the world had a cone the width of a piece of paper, forcing you to stare down a reciever like he did in real life at the time. I thought it was fine.

[Big FN Deal]

I am very glad to see this topic being rehashed again and hope the Madden developers take note to everyone's ideas since they frequent these forums.

I agree with the OP about bringing the gameplay view down to field level, not just for QB's but every player/position. I think there are many ways to implement the head turning mechanic but it seems like EA wants Madden to innovate, not alienate. So I think a good way to control the head turn while staying true to the traditional passing, is with a revised version of the double tap system from the old QB vision.

Instead of a displayed vision cone in god-view, a User controlled Brady literally would have a wider, more zoomed out gameplay field level view than Grossman, that would have a more zoomed in, locked on one receiver or spot on the field type view.

User controlling Brady, would visually have more potential pass icons in view range and require less double tapping, which is needed to look at receiver's outside his view. So Brady looking down the middle of the field could potentially encompass viewing 3-4 receivers icons at once, depending on their routes and only have to press the corresponding button once, as usual, to pass to any of those receivers. However, Grossman would have a much more limited, zoomed in, tunnel vision like view, needing to progressively tap once to look at each receiver, then a second time to pass as usual.

I would also like to see custom controller button mapping added for the receiver icons so you can assign a specific icon to a specific player if you choose. Like, X-Santana Moss/B-Jabar Gaffney/Y-Fred Davis,etc, so looking and passing would become an easier exercise through muscle memory/repetition like real life. Along with being able to assign a "dumpoff" button that only requires one button press, regardless of where the QB's is looking, for quick screen passes and passes very close to the QB.

To simulate the CPU "reading the QB's eyes" the actual "vision cone" should be internal, "under the hood" for the CPU AI to utilize and react to like this explains; EA's new attempt at replicating player vision.

However, there needs to be an actual QB in-game head turn action that plays out so User controlled defenders in a position to have a gameplay view of the QB, can literally try to read the eyes.

[TNT713]

I don't think it's possible to hate QB Vision more than I do... I actually gave my PS2 away because of QB Vision and didn't play again until getting Madden 08 on the PS3. I vowed NEVER to play another game with a lighthouse throwing the pigskin.

Personally, I have no interest in having a control set just to move the QB's head. From the coordinator perspective, the QB's eyes are irrelevant. I've often said that my QB's head is nothing more than a helmet holder. Your OPPONENT'S EYES are more important (assuming the opponent has eyes). I get a thrill learning my opponent's reads and progressions and don't need my opponent encumbered with 'nodding' to get into his head.

Please, please, please... No more QB Vision - move his head with the stick talk. It sucked before, it's still going to suck.

Later

[HighCmpPct]

Quote: Originally Posted by TMJOHNS18

The only problem with moving the actual camera would be avoiding the pass rush. If I'm looking down the far sideline I will not be able to tell if there's a DE or rusher about to take me out.

This is the kind of things we have got to stop saying guys.

Yes you are right if your looking down the far side and a rusher comes from the other side and crushes you, you won't see it coming.

But guess what? Neither do the real qb's it why the blind side of your o-line is so important. It's why RE generally get more sacks cause qbs are more ofter left handed and can't see them coming as easy as the left end.

[moneal2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

I don't think it's possible to hate QB Vision more than I do... I actually gave my PS2 away because of QB Vision and didn't play again until getting Madden 08 on the PS3. I vowed NEVER to play another game with a lighthouse throwing the pigskin. Personally, I have no interest in having a control set just to move the QB's head. From the coordinator perspective, the QB's eyes are irrelevant. I've often said that my QB's head is nothing more than a helmet holder. Your OPPONENT'S EYES are more important (assuming the opponent has eyes). I get a thrill learning my opponent's reads and progressions and don't need my opponent encumbered with 'nodding' to get into his head. Please, please, please... No more QB Vision - move his head with the stick talk. It sucked before, it's still going to suck. Later

do you just play coach mode? if you are looking at it from a coordinator's perspective, sure it isnt needed but as someone who runs the plays it would add another layer of strategy. you know like: looking off a safety, tricking an other player into jumping a route and burning him deep, destroying a bad player that stares down receivers. this is not for you and making it a toggle for people like you that don't like it or others that don't have the ability to use it.

You ask any DB and they will tell you the best read is not the receiver you are covering but the QBs eyes, he cant throw where he isn't looking(and if he does it would end very badly). in madden that just doesn't exist right now.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by moneal2001

do you just play coach mode? if you are looking at it from a coordinator's perspective, sure it isnt needed but as someone who runs the plays it would add another layer of strategy. you know like: looking off a safety, tricking an other player into jumping a route and burning him deep, destroying a bad player that stares down receivers. this is not for you and making it a toggle for people like you that don't like it or others that don't have the ability to use it. You ask any DB and they will tell you the best read is not the receiver you are covering but the QBs eyes, he cant throw where he isn't looking(and if he does it would end very badly). in madden that just doesn't exist right now.

I 100% agree with you but there are some people that don't want optimum NFL simulation for Madden and those that do, have suffered unnecessarily because of it, imo. I don't begrudge anyone for wanting Madden to play "their way" but that's not simulation or NFL authentic, it's customization. The problem is, Madden keeps being created as a customized NFL game, instead of as a NFL simulation, with custom options.

This is not unique to Madden either because NBA2k, NHL, NCAA and FIFA should have a realistic field level simulation gameplay view options, imo, but this is a Madden forum. Imagine a race car or flight simulation game being created to play from god-view, with no option to have a view from behind the controls, ridiculous, no? Likewise for this entire generation of most sports games.

There was a time when my interest in football gaming had very little to do with how "sim" it was, it was just about playing with my favorite teams and players, against my friends. However, I am now a grown arse man that wants a NFL authentic simulation challenge in my football game, for enjoyment.