Madden NFL 12 Has Twice as Many People Working on Core Gameplay

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thinking Out Loud

With what you have described, in Madden 11, I would call a man LB blitz out of the nickel package, match-up Sheldon Brown on Jennings with play off technique if I double team or press with safety help, match-up Eric Wright on Driver with press technique, and match-up Joe Harden on Finley with auto technique, using the defensive match up menu. Of course there are numerous other possibilities but the point is having this stuff in the match-up menu instead of at the LOS can be effective.

I agree with you here, and your idea of having it in the match up menu at least provides a place to set this up. It's having no option to choose who to press and who to play off that bothers me most.

Quote: Originally Posted by Thinking Out Loud

I am starting to feel like I am trying to convince you to like it but that's not what I want to do. LOL. I am sure you like what you like and that's fine. I just think this is a good way of allowing defensive adjustments while not sacrificing realism.

Sorry, it's just because of how passionate I am about this topic. Take the guys asking for adjustable sock lengths and colored cleats and x1000. I really don't care how it is implemented, I want to at least be able to play press and soft coverage on the same play. I would really love to be able to tell my dbs which way to shade and be able to call my own line stunts as well, but that seems like asking for the moon at this point.

Quote: Originally Posted by Thinking Out Loud

I personally believe part of the reason there is not more realistic football played in football video games is because of the unrealistic way that, even real football features, are implemented and/or can be used.

I don't know. I think there is a group of players who always want to find money plays and exploits. They play every game this way. Imo, the best way to keep those guys from running the same effective play the whole game is to give his opponent more specific ways to counter it. It also doesn't help that just basic defensive play calling is totally unrealistic in this game right now.

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thinking Out Loud

Exactly, the CB decided what technique at the LOS not the coach/coordinator. I think the reason gamers have concerns with even elite DBs being free to make their own adjustments in NCAA/Madden is because of there has not been enough player individuality. Hopefully them adding player tendencies this year will help.

I don't look at it like I'm a coordinator. It's like I'm injecting my own personality into them. It's like I'm thinking if I was that db in that situation I would use press coverage and shade inside, so that's what I want him to do in the game.

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

I would be ok with having the defensive options at the play call screen like Thinking Out Loud suggested, but it wouldn't be my first choice and it's never made sense to just build them into the call imo. In Madden 10 or 11, how do you defend the situation I posed earlier? Your playing your friend using the Browns vs the Packers. He has the ball 3rd and 5. You know he likes to throw short to Driver or Findley in this situation but if you play your defenders close to the wrs, Jennings will be burn his defender deep. Is just trusting the cpu to automatically make the adjustments you want for this situation really better than having some way to tell your players how you want them to react, even if it isn't really realistic?

I feel you. I have been frustrated by this very same scenerio. I've had times where I've looked at a trips set and seen a china play coming a mile away, but I can't tell my corner to shade inside. This is kinda where I go back and forth, because I want as much control in the hands of the players as possible, but I would like to see an emphasis on smart playcalling, instead of button-mashing at the LOS to create a defense.

Of course, the answer to this is more playcall options. Similar to the way that they gave us cover-1 press, or 2 man under press, but didn't take away the ability to press or play off.

Take a look at a simple cover 8 and variations that a coordinator has at his disposal to call.

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[Thinking Out Loud]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

I don't know. I think there is a group of players who always want to find money plays and exploits. They play every game this way. Imo, the best way to keep those guys from running the same effective play the whole game is to give his opponent more specific ways to counter it. It also doesn't help that just basic defensive play calling is totally unrealistic in this game right now.

I agree with everything else but on this part I fiercely disagree! LOL

I think the lack of effective basic adaptive AI and some basic football fundamentals not being represented, allows guys to run the same effective play the whole game. Now I am not talking about someone calling a dime defense and trying to stop a goal line run or something obviously absurd like that. I mean knowing someone is doing a run out of the wildcat for the fourth straight time and not having defensive players AI adjust when in a 4-3 with both safeties blitzing. EA football games should have enough adaptive AI that gamers with at least basic knowledge of offensive/defensive football can have reasonable success.

I look forward to the day there is a football video game that a 65 y/o former football coach can play for the first time and at least reasonably hold their own against a 21 y/o college kid that's been playing football video games for years.

Maybe one day...

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

I don't look at it like I'm a coordinator. It's like I'm injecting my own personality into them. It's like I'm thinking if I was that db in that situation I would use press coverage and shade inside, so that's what I want him to do in the game.

The thing is though, if they let the gamer inject their personality into more than one player, that's not team ball. I am sure coach/coordinators/elite players wish they could inject their personality into multiple guys on the team too but they can only instruct them and watch. In EA football games we are able to instruct our team on the sideline like a coach/coordinator and choose one player to play vicariously through to execute on the field like an elite player.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

I don't look at it like I'm a coordinator. It's like I'm injecting my own personality into them. It's like I'm thinking if I was that db in that situation I would use press coverage and shade inside, so that's what I want him to do in the game.

That's the thing I never understand with sports games.

It's like on one hand you're the coach, then you're the QB, then you're the WR.

It's a really strange mish-mash of things. I'm starting to think it's getting in the way.

We can't have mental/physical errors because people can "user" the player to execute perfectly. We lose individuality partly because of this as well. There is no over-running plays or being too aggressive unless the person at the sticks is, never mind if the real life player is always over-aggressive or he's as dumb as his cleats. The human can take a Derek Anderson or Jamarcus Russell and make perfect decisions, even if their AWR is craptastic. A real life QB that prefers the West Coast style can constantly air it out with no problem, while in real life he shoots high velocity 7-10 yd darts all day, not 40 yd bombs.

The rare good player that does have a critical weakness will get that weakness "usered" away (controlling AP will have you cover the ball so he doesn't fumble like he does in real life, etc). So you just have yet another perfect player doing perfect things.

I guess I want sports games where I see the player's strengths and weaknesses come out in THEIR game, not my strengths and weaknesses at the sticks.

[parrothead]

Things like accuracy or carry rating shouldn't change rather I control a player or not. The vision cone kind of helped differentiate quarterbacks. And If they could implement momentum properly we might see some plays overrun based on some kind of individual "stop" rating. Or maybe a "reaction speed" so even if we controlled a player his rating would determine how quickly he reacts. Oh I would have loved to see the build the CD guys played before Madden 11 went final.

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thinking Out Loud

The thing is though, if they let the gamer inject their personality into more than one player, that's not team ball. I am sure coach/coordinators/elite players wish they could inject their personality into multiple guys on the team too but they can only instruct them and watch. In EA football games we are able to instruct our team on the sideline like a coach/coordinator and choose one player to play vicariously through to execute on the field like an elite player.

This is simply a personal preference thing. Some gamers don't want to control anyone on the field and just call the plays against the cpu, others will only control 1 player the entire play and never switch off and then you have guys like me who like to manually do as much as I can.

From my point of view it's a video game, not a true team sport. I don't want to leave it up to the cpu to control 10 out of the 11 guys on my team. The cpu is ********.

Edit: I didn't know that was a blocked word, lol. I guess I meant to say the cpu is "mentally challenged"

[bukktown]

Correct me if I am wrong. Isn't "core" gameplay the engine/tools that the software engineers write for the designers to use?

[Thinking Out Loud]

I am convinced they know how to make EA football games way more realistic but just didn't. I encourage my fellow OSers, whenever you have some free time, to go back and read some of the old NCAA/Madden threads. It can be kind of hard to pick up on through ALL the stuff but various gamers have actual played pieces of an almost perfect EA simulation football game.

Stop rolling your eyes and bare with me for a moment. LOL

I am not going to go back and put a montage together about it but just reading other posters reminiscing about stuff recently is quite telling. Things like game breaks, rattled QB's, rattled receivers, crowd noise affecting play on the field and countless unbelievably realistic moments achieved through ratings changes and slider sets. There is no way I will believe that they can't make great EA football simulation games. They already have, it's just been broken down into pieces and scattered like some powerful artifact they don't believe the gaming world is ready for. The sad thing is, it's partly my fault and anybody else that cried about Vision cone way back in 2005, IMO.

I have recently come to believe that part of the reason we have went so long without a true simulation football game from EA is because of the Madden 2006 QB Vision Revolt. I HATED QB Vision with a passion at the time but it was the most genuinely realistic NEXT-gen innovation attempt EA has ever tried. Also, that was the first year of the allegedly costly exclusive licenses and 1st next-gen Madden "engine" issues. So, right out the gate EA football tries to give gamers a very strong realistic simulation feature ATTEMPT and most of the community, including myself, just wasn't ready. Not just not ready for QB Vision but not ready to change how we played EA football games and that's exactly what will be required to play a true simulation EA football game. EA even tried to give the community one more chance at change with Madden 2007 by making the QB Vision optional and still most gamers (me too) rejected and ignored it. Then, well, the rest is history and we got what we got from then til now.

Now we have Cam Weber saying he wants to put all the pieces of simulation football together and give gamers realistic EA football video games and I really hope he does. I personally believe I have changed quite a bit since QB Vision and I hope all those gamers that claim they want a change in EA football are prepared to change the way they play it, this time.