More Physics Issues Madden 10 vid vs NFL 2K5

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by dat swag

IMO the evidence is solid...You can't deny the physics when you see the video...There is nothing iffy about a defensive player making an impactive tackle that stands a ball carrier up or stops his momentum only to see the ball carrier mythically and magically plow through the defender seconds later as if he was never there... The running animations are horrid...I just see alot of problems and the weird thing is the more I see NFL2k5 and APF it makes me want to play those games more than Madden 10. Too many people here are simply happy to share the forum with Ian and CO...Its almost like a HS crush...I respect EA, Ian and what they are TRYING to do but IMO what they are doing isn't enough...The game doesn't appear to be making a leap to next gen...Its a calvalcade of Tweaks and band aids on top of an old delapidated engine that has been used waaaay too long. Next gen should have been a committment to PHYSICS and the laws and principles that govern physics through NFL Football. I will buy the game and hope to be pleasantly suprised and flat out wrong..If I'm wrong about this game I'll be the first to give EA their kudos..But as I see it right now the game isn't making the needed changes and too many people are far more into chatting and loving on Ian than they are into holding EA/Tiburon accountable for the last 5 years of next gen that have been an utter failure. Every year t=its an excuse...It was Strauser's or Ortiz' fault...Now its Ian who has the keys to the Ferrari... and all I really hear are exciuses...The running animations were set on slow???...yeah right...I mean I thought I was a huge EA apologist but some of the people on this forum take it to a new level. WE need more ApexBronx and Choof Chasers holding EA accountable and calling out their development teams on the sheer and utter nonsense that we keep getting by way of MADDEN NFL FOOTBALL. I don't want to hear the nonsense about "Just enjoy it for what it is"..Please...that means accepting and approving of mediocrity...If the people at Tiburon can't get it right...Get the game in the hands of people who know what to do with the game and how to move it forward. here we are 5-6 years into next gen and the damn playbooks have not changed since 2002???..Like Apex has said..we have been funding the hell outta this company and this game and every year we get a promise of next year...

Where do you get the notion that the playbooks haven't changed since 02? Do you know something about 10 that others don't?

There was a CD member a few pages back mentioned the playbook had many changes besides Wildcat from 09 to 10.

Also, what has already been explained by the same CD member a few pages back is that 11 will have animations as a priority. I don't recall Ian or anyone from the team saying they will promise to fix all animations for 10.

Also, you can't put all the blame on Ian and company for not doing enough for 10 without playing the game. 90% of the wishlist was put into the game. Also, your barking up the wrong tree with HS crushes on Ian with me. It's just another person on the net that I don't know IRL.

Some people in this thread expectations were set too darn high if they thought everything but the kitchen sink would be put into 10. I don't think I need to list all the improvements with 10. You can burn all you want with 06, 07, 08, and 09, and I don't have a problem with that. My issue is people already hanging 10 out to dry without playing the game. It's all just pure speculation and educated guesses if the game is good or not at this point.

[Cutler2Hester23]

Quote: Originally Posted by totalownership

These replies puzzle me. The guy is telling the truth and bringing something to the attention of the people and you guys really don't think it's important?

The truth? You mean you want the Oline to not block a 300lbs DT and then have him turn on a dime to make a "physically" impossible sack? Okay cool, show one game's physics issues but praise the other games physics issues by calling them answers.

If you like 2k so much why not get out of the madden forum.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by Segagendude

This should be good.....after scoring an exciting, game-winning touchdown when playing the game,people like Apex will not enjoy the moment. They'll spend the next several hours breaking down replays at every angle looking for every single fault and posting them on Youtube..... (Instead of celebrating a major win in The Show, I should do the same........yeah, right!) Whatever floats yer boat.

It's funny you mention this. It is exactly how I feel for those that make Sliders. It's a never ending saga. I know for a fact players need to do their own slider settings. We are all different.

Quote: Originally Posted by dat swag

Then you should never watch his videos..But any good argument or critique needs a comparative anlysis of the topic at hand...With 2K being the only available game to adequately compare to Madden 10 its a necessary evil to compare the two. His videos are not about hyping 2K...I see them more as opening eyes as to what the hell is going on with Madden 10..Its all about Madden 10 for me..I want the game to be good, fun and interesting...Yet everytime I try to apply realistic principles to what I see I get these ugly reminders that Madden just isn't being progressive...Its an old game, using an old engine thats capitalizing on OLD and new money...Its the McDonalds of VIdeogames...McMadden

Very well put, and the mention about 2k being the only other game that can be compared to Madden is a GREAT POINT!

Quote: Originally Posted by mrprice33

lol @ people critiquing the heck out of a HIGHLIGHT video that was done by some marketing people in order to hype the game up for casuals...

What about the gameplay videos that they saw also. I remember perfectly when E3 came we witnessed videos with a Horrible pass rush, and that had nothing to do with a Marketing video, and if it wasn't for those that are critical about what they see in a video.
You would be playing a game with a horrible pass rush.

In the end beefing about the animations isn't a bad thing at all. It's going to be a huge focal point for Madden 11, and that's another problem. Why Madden 11. This should have been solid with Madden 07 or at worst 8. It wasn't and that is frustrating for many

Quote: Originally Posted by KANE699

Looks like you, and a lot of others need to read this blog by Ian. http://www.operationsports.com/Ian_C...-a-new-engine/

I read it but it did nothing as far as explaining why so much trouble with getting the animations right with Madden by now. On last gen they nailed the animations very quickly.

I still feel strongly the animations engine and physics engine is not friendly. I also feel for political reasons they have to back up those engines with positive remarks, and are not in a position to bad mouth it.

Thanks for the link. It was educational , but didn't answer my question.

[WFColonel56]

Quote: Originally Posted by Echopax

I like how every time someone points out a legimate flaw in the game, someone always has to go on a rant about how "it's an early build". Yeah, sure. Players don't move any differently on rookie than they do on all-pro, they just react different with their AI.

Dude read my post

Quote: Originally Posted by mrprice33

where did he say anything about an early build?

Exactly

These vids are nothing morethan what Ian showed in the 1st vid with ARZ and Pitt in the SB....They're just trying to make all the teams look good

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by WFColonel56

Dude read my post Exactly These vids are nothing morethan what Ian showed in the 1st vid with ARZ and Pitt in the SB....They're just trying to make all the teams look good

Again what about all the gameplay videos that were shown in E3. Those videos had nothing to do with marketing. The animations, physics, and pass rush was off. They did fix the pass rush, and till the demo is released we will know nothing about the animations and physics being improved. Lets not forget momentum.

In time we will know the truth.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

In the end beefing about the animations isn't a bad thing at all. It's going to be a huge focal point for Madden 11, and that's another problem. Why Madden 11. This should have been solid with Madden 07 or at worst 8. It wasn't and that is frustrating for many

Agreed with everything you said, but just wanted to add a bit here. I agree it should have been solid with 07, 08, or 09, but it just wasn't the focal point back then in my opinion. Ring builder, weapons, all that arcadey stuff with the casual fans in mind. The thing is, though, no one can change the past. People can still criticize the past all they want, but does that do any good but make people feel better and hammer the point home over and over and over.

I think beefing for animations is too late for 10, but not late for 11.

I just feel that when the wish list comes around again for 11 after 10 drops, everyone in this thread has a chance to vote for animations as a high priority. I'm sure Ian and company will get the picture if there are many votes for better animations for 11.

That's the best we can do at this stage. It didn't have to come to this, I get that, but we need to let Ian and company know how high a priority it is for us for 11.

[WFColonel56]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

What about the gameplay videos that they saw also. I remember perfectly when E3 came we witnessed videos with a Horrible pass rush, and that had nothing to do with a Marketing video, and if it wasn't for those that are critical about what they see in a video. You would be playing a game with a horrible pass rush. .

E3 is diff they put the game out to test so that build was what EA wanted to represent them at E3......Then they got the feedback that the pass rush was lack luster and they fixed it

What we have now are vid just to make all the teams showed look as good as they can.....Thus The game isn't played on "sim" all pro.....Maybe its even played on rookie....But that is why you see all of the broken tackles and such.....

(Apex makes a good observation when he talks about how peppers didnt turn the corner as smooth but the 2K vid he used a an example of how it should be done wasnt any better IMO There is no way in hell a DT could make a cut that swiftly)

[WFColonel56]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

Again what about all the gameplay videos that were shown in E3. Those videos had nothing to do with marketing. The animations, physics, and pass rush was off. They did fix the pass rush, and till the demo is released we will know nothing about the animations and physics being improved. Lets not forget momentum. In time we will know the truth.

IMO the E3 vids looked good to me....Well I guess I am one of the few that liked 09 and played it up until last month

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Agreed with everything you said, but just wanted to add a bit here. I agree it should have been solid with 07, 08, or 09, but it just wasn't the focal point back then in my opinion. Ring builder, weapons, all that arcadey stuff with the casual fans in mind. The thing is, though, no one can change the past. People can still criticize the past all they want, but does that do any good but make people feel better and hammer the point home over and over and over. I think beefing for animations is too late for 10, but not late for 11. I just feel that when the wish list comes around again for 11 after 10 drops, everyone in this thread has a chance to vote for animations as a high priority. I'm sure Ian and company will get the picture if there are many votes for better animations for 11. That's the best we can do at this stage. It didn't have to come to this, I get that, but we need to let Ian and company know how high a priority it is for us for 11.

Thanks for adding to it, you bring up some valid points.

To be honest a lot of members in here whether they are criticizing or not bring up very valid points. I love it when it is done constructively and not disrespectful.

Quote: Originally Posted by WFColonel56

E3 is diff they put the game out to test so that build was what EA wanted to represent them at E3......Then they got the feedback that the pass rush was lack luster and they fixed it What we have now are vid just to make all the teams showed look as good as they can.....Thus The game isn't played on "sim" all pro.....Maybe its even played on rookie....But that is why you see all of the broken tackles and such..... (Apex makes a good observation when he talks about how peppers didnt turn the corner as smooth but the 2K vid he used a an example of how it should be done wasnt any better IMO There is no way in hell a DT could make a cut that swiftly)

I agree. When I saw that DT make a sharp cut like that I was skeptical, but NFL players change direction very sharp and are some amazing athletes.

I'll look at some videos and see for myself if a DT can cut like that

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by WFColonel56

IMO the E3 vids looked good to me....Well I guess I am one of the few that liked 09 and played it up until last month

Graphically the game looks very nice, but the overall animations , physics , and momentum bothered me.

They were decent but nothing more. Anyways many will be please and I would not say anything to them to alter their opinion. They deserve to enjoy the game. I'm just a stickler for animations and I am very picky about it.

I loved Madden's last gen animations, NFL2k, APF, and MLB the show animations. Next gen Madden hasn't done it for me yet.