All Ratings Talk Here Per Millennium

[hiuhyoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by Glorious Arc

@ WFColonel56 I feel ya. There are countless players I have issues with and several facts to back why they are completely messed up but it doesnt seem like we will get an official answer from a dev why certain players got certain stats. Regardless of the new ratings system, some players just got the shaft for reasons that I cant logically figure out. I have no problem with seeing players having lower stats but when you compare other players to each other it raises a lot of questions.

Mmm this topic seems to just be an opportunity to vent with little productivity coming out of it

[Broncos86]

There will always be ratings we disagree with, always. Ratings will never be perfect, and we're always going to want our team to be rated well.

[Glorious Arc]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

There will always be ratings we disagree with, always. Ratings will never be perfect, and we're always going to want our team to be rated well.

To assume I want my teams ratings to be better is completely wrong. I want players to play like their real life counter parts. I have already stated that Williams is going to be overrated to how he really performs IRL and I felt that the panthers were where they were supposed to be with all of their ratings(generally) except for Stewart.

Maybe I am wrong about his stiff arm but when I see him do this to one of the better tackling CBs in the NFL I have to wonder why was he rated the way he was?



And to see his trucking one point higher then LTs and Jones and then looking at Steven Jackson with his 95. I have to wonder what is the determining factor to having a good truck rating. Is it dragging the pile or is it smacking defenders like they are crash test dummies or is it both? Stewart does both on a similar level as Jackson yet he is 7 points lower.



I may know the panthers better then I do other teams and can give a better stat judgement as to what each player should have but that does not mean I want them to be rated unreal. I want players stats to reflect how players play IRL.

[Broncos86]

Even if you don't think this is true, there's some subliminal favoritism that all fans have towards their teams and players.

[Glorious Arc]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

Even if you don't think this is true, there's some subliminal favoritism that Most/Some fans have towards their teams and players.

Fixed

It is a false statement to say all fans because it is impossible/improbable for 100% of fans to always be showing favoritism. I lived in a household of Packers, Browns, and Falcon fans. I started to like the Panthers as a kid because their uniforms look nice. I then became a fan of the play makers on the team but that is about as far as my love and support goes for one team. I dont really have a "favorite" team or player I could pick out but I still feel the Panthers have some great uniforms. I love the game of football and the people who play it. Picking one team and saying that is "my" team was always a stupid concept in my mind.

What is funny is, If I were to change my icon to something different then the panthers you would not have anything to say. When it is a "Panthers fan" complaining about panthers stats people shout homerism. When its a panthers fan complaining about LTs(or any non panther) stats they ignore him. Either way they are legitimate complaints that go unnoticed in the bigger picture. I just enjoy debating about stats because there really is not much else to talk about.

[Broncos86]

I think this back and forth is evidence enough. You see your way as crystal clear, I see it another way. Ratings are subjective. You might say "LT was injured! Of course he had an off year." I might say "The injury was a result of his body breaking down. More to come later."

It's cool to disagree. I thought Elvis Dumervil got chopped hard. But, I also think Elvis is a better player than what last year showed, mainly because of the dire situation that was the Denver defense. You might say that because Elvis isn't all that great, the Denver defense suffered.

That said, it is what it is.

[hiuhyoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by Glorious Arc

To true. I thought the panthers were done fairly solid. My only beef is J Stewart's truck and stiff arm ratings in comparison to other RBs is way to low. Players like LT and Thomas Jones have 87 truck and Stewart is only one point higher then them. LT and Jones are maybe overrated on their trucking because they are very balanced backs/explosive backs and rarely will drag a pile or smack someone silly like other RBs. Stewart(88 truck) and Frank Gore(87 truck) are on the same level(maybe 1-3 points lower then them IRL) to trucking as Steven Jackson(95 truck) and Micheal Turner(97 truck) but they are 8-10 points lower then them. Those are more IMO thoughts then facts but if you watch the footage.... If I played online this would be a really big issue but instead it will just be a really big time consuming fix I will have to do.

Oh that's an easy one, I thought you were arguing Jon Beason's rating.

Jonathan Stewart's season was largely a product of the emergence of DeAngelo Williams, if you look at his performances Stewart only had 6 games with a 4YPC or better. His best performances were probably the first two games of the season against a despondent San Diego defense and a pretty tough Chicago defense.

Ultimately Stewart was no more than a glorified change of pace back, I'd take the 85 OVR and be happy with it considering that means he is supposedly better than Leon Washington, Kevin Smith, Chester Taylor, Pierre Thomas and many more proven complementary backs. Whether or not his running techniques are rated correctly is debatable but honestly highlight reels can make any player look decent and it's somewhat counterproductive to try argue with individual plays.

Honestly though you could be forgiven for thinking Stewart and other 2nd year running backs are rated correctly or should be rated higher considering the amount of hype surrounding each of them.

[Glorious Arc]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

I think this back and forth is evidence enough. You see your way as crystal clear, I see it another way. Ratings are subjective. You might say "LT was injured! Of course he had an off year." I might say "The injury was a result of his body breaking down. More to come later." It's cool to disagree. I thought Elvis Dumervil got chopped hard. But, I also think Elvis is a better player than what last year showed, mainly because of the dire situation that was the Denver defense. You might say that because Elvis isn't all that great, the Denver defense suffered. That said, it is what it is.

You gave no reason or point as to why Stewart should be rated differently other then homerism(or ratings are subjective) I cant have any type conversation about stats if that is all that is to be said. I enjoy talking about players ratings that could be different and why they should be. If you dont want to talk about them then fine, dont post.

My only real beef for LT is his carry rating is very underrated and there is no reason why it should be as low as it is compared to other RBs and what LT has done. Those are simple facts and there is nothing subjective about it. LT is one of the least fumbling backs ever.(Many of the greats averaged 80 touches per fumble and LT has averaged 120+ touches per fumble)

I dont know much about Dumervil besides he is a fast under sized pass rushing DE(that is from Head Coach 09 lol) It would be improper for me to try and judge him because I can only use his stats and stats dont mean everything all the time.

Quote: Originally Posted by hiuhyoi

Oh that's an easy one, I thought you were arguing Jon Beason's rating. Jonathan Stewart's season was largely a product of the emergence of DeAngelo Williams, if you look at his performances Stewart only had 6 games with a 4YPC or better. His best performances were probably the first two games of the season against a despondent San Diego defense and a pretty tough Chicago defense. Ultimately Stewart was no more than a glorified change of pace back, I'd take the 85 OVR and be happy with it considering that means he is supposedly better than Leon Washington, Kevin Smith, Chester Taylor, Pierre Thomas and many more proven complementary backs. Whether or not his running techniques are rated correctly is debatable but honestly highlight reels can make any player look decent and it's somewhat counterproductive to try argue with individual plays. Honestly though you could be forgiven for thinking Stewart and other 2nd year running backs are rated correctly or should be rated higher considering the amount of hype surrounding each of them.

I like the thought of the "emergence of Williams". If he was given the ball more in 07 though I think we would have said he had come into his own then. He was already a talented back and producing. Once he became the #1 back in 08 his stats simplely multiplied accordingly.

As far as the 4.0 YPA goes, I find it as good of info to use as 40 yard dashes. Sure it tells you that the RB is getting good yards per carry but even Turner(7 games) Portis(8 games) Thomas Jones(7 games) Slaton(8 games)Forte(6 games)Steven Jackson(5 games) there may be more in a 1-2 game radius but I think I have made my point with a few of those names.

Its hard to say that any one game could be a best performance when you average less then 12 attempts a game.

I dont know how the "overall" rating works with RBs and frankly I dont care. Overall is nothing more then eye candy. Maybe its his catching and blocking skills that bump his overall up. Honestly if you look at all of Stewart's stats you have to question how is he rated 85 overall. Besides his physical stats(also excluding return, jump, injury ect ect) he has 0 stats in the 90s and has 5 stats in the 80s and 3 stats in the 70s.

If you include physical stats(exclude ratings that dont effect overall like return injury ect ect) then he has 1 stat in the 90s, 8 in the 80s, and 4 stats in the 70s. Does that sound like a player who should be rated overall 85?

Just a small look at Reggie Bush in the same nature. (exclude physical stats) He has 4 90s(all but one are 97+) 4 are in the 80s and 2 are in the 70s. Doesnt it sound like Bush should be a high "overall" then Stewart.

With Bush's physical stats its looks even more one sided. 7 90s(all but one are below 97+) 5 80s and 2 70s.

For those that say well you are not including Bush's bad skills but my point is that if you look at their overall best skills that relate to playing on the field(running, catching, blocking) Bush has many more stats extremely higher then Stewart yet Stewart is 6 points "overall" higher. The bigger potential weapon in the game is Bush overall yet the overall rating does not show this. It shows overall what the devs thinks make a good RB.

Back to point, Pierre Thomas's main running skills are all in the 70s and that is how he runs IRL. He can do everything at an average NFL pace. Kevin Smith is an up and coming solid back as well that does everything at an average-above average back.(he may deserve a few more points in some of his stats but it is a somewhat fair rating because he is slightly better then Pierre)

I have not seen much of Chester Taylor's running ability and any judgement I make about his abilities would be solely based about his production which is not a completely fair way to measure someone. I cant say anything about Leon Washington because I obviously dont know any of the specifics of his stats.

Stewart in the minds of the dev is a better "overall" back then some players but he is still not as physical(truck/stiff arm) in the game as he is IRL. People that place so much weight into overall are being lazy when it comes to players. Overall should not matter. If LT is a better overall then AP then so be it. LT is the better overall back and AP is the better runner. To have the thought process of his overall is nice and high therefore he is portrayed correctly is wrong.

You are kinda right though. Stewart is a change of pace back but so is/were Jacobs and Turner. Jacobs has yet to really be healthy and I can not deny how hard it is to take him down so he deserves his 99 truck. When Turner finally became the starter he put up similar numbers as to when he was a back-up. Like Williams once he got the main load of the carries his numbers multiplied accordingly. Stewart runs with similar power to these fairly one dimensional RBs yet because he does not get the same amount of carries they lower his abilities from what they should be in the game just to make his overall look pretty.

BTW, great point about the highlight reel and one play being counter productive. Its a beautiful yet ugly truth.(Thinks about starting the "down with Brady's arm strength" again...And I also mean to raise his accuracy to similar/ better on some ratings then Manning's so dont think its a pure bash Brady movement)

[SuperNoVa27]

What is up with DeSean Jackson he should be atleast an 84 with a 97 speed and 80 spectacular catch and Eddie Royal should also be atleast an 83.5. Looks like I will be doing some updates come Madden 10

[WFColonel56]

Quote: Originally Posted by Glorious Arc

To assume I want my teams ratings to be better is completely wrong. I want players to play like their real life counter parts. I have already stated that Williams is going to be overrated to how he really performs IRL and I felt that the panthers were where they were supposed to be with all of their ratings(generally) except for Stewart. Maybe I am wrong about his stiff arm but when I see him do this to one of the better tackling CBs in the NFL I have to wonder why was he rated the way he was? And to see his trucking one point higher then LTs and Jones and then looking at Steven Jackson with his 95. I have to wonder what is the determining factor to having a good truck rating. Is it dragging the pile or is it smacking defenders like they are crash test dummies or is it both? Stewart does both on a similar level as Jackson yet he is 7 points lower. I may know the panthers better then I do other teams and can give a better stat judgement as to what each player should have but that does not mean I want them to be rated unreal. I want players stats to reflect how players play IRL.

Is that Ronde in the video.....lol... If it is I something to say to him when he comes back to VA....(his old HS is 15 min away from where I live)...This is going 2 be fun