Full game w/ EA Designers (Colts vs. Vikings)

[cowboysfan440]

Quote: Originally Posted by 2krules

I agree with you that the changes this year are marginal as far as those two area are concerned. Collinsworth is good, but Tom Hammond is a big bore, and I don't understand how EA can be satisfied with him. I actually prefer the Radio Guy - at least he had excitement in his voice. Presentation has not made many improvements, either. The lack of presentation is the main thing that made Madden of little replay value to me. I didn't like Madden 08 becauseof all the crazy turnovers. However, I played the heck out of 07 at first. But a few months later, I was getting bored because of lack of presentation. But I've been playing ESPN 2K5 since day one, and it just doesn't get old; the presentation is a big factor in me continuing to come back to it. I don't think that in order to contribute to this thread regarding things that we think need to be improved, we should be pressured to post a certain amount of things we do like. If I were a developer for a game due to be released in two months, I would be more interested in hearing how I could improve the game than hearing Kudos. I would figure that if I worked to improve the game based on gamers' recommendation, the Kudos would come later.

look it might not be up to standards yet but i dont know how you can sit there especially if you played 07 and 08 and say presentation hasnt made a big step forward ive been on "next gen" since 06 and this is by far the biggest leap they've made now i agree it needs to be even better but give credit where its due they are making strides in the right direction

[JagerMichael]

Quote: Originally Posted by 2krules

I agree with you that the changes this year are marginal as far as those two area are concerned. Collinsworth is good, but Tom Hammond is a big bore, and I don't understand how EA can be satisfied with him. I actually prefer the Radio Guy - at least he had excitement in his voice. Presentation has not made many improvements, either. The lack of presentation is the main thing that made Madden of little replay value to me. I didn't like Madden 08 becauseof all the crazy turnovers. However, I played the heck out of 07 at first. But a few months later, I was getting bored because of lack of presentation. But I've been playing ESPN 2K5 since day one, and it just doesn't get old; the presentation is a big factor in me continuing to come back to it. I don't think that in order to contribute to this thread regarding things that we think need to be improved, we should be pressured to post a certain amount of things we do like. If I were a developer for a game due to be released in two months, I would be more interested in hearing how I could improve the game than hearing Kudos. I would figure that if I worked to improve the game based on gamers' recommendation, the Kudos would come later.

I don't agree with this at all, and I am a developer. Of course you want to hear what you can do to make your product better, but constant criticism with no reinforcement of whats good can wear a person down.

Not to mention, in an instance like this the compliments can help further the game. They aren't just empty comments of praise, it's telling them what people really like about the game which gives them input on where to put some focus for the future.

Criticism is key in making a product great, but praise is just as important if you want your product to be well rounded.

[noplace]

I just saw this...Ok

Things I liked...

1. Graphics...Look great! Player models are great!
2. Animations...Look smoother
3. Plays....Theres alot more...Like the changes at the LOS

Things I didnt like

1. Play by Play is horrible...Almost no names being called. ex. "Takes the snap, tackled for a lose" thats it? Nothing between the plays just at the beginning & end?....Play by Play should be alot more descriptive. Ex. "Vikings comes to the LOS, Jackson looks over the defense, TE name in motion. Jackson takes the snap, good protections, looks over the middle, throws...finds his man Rice for a 15 yrd gain & a 1st down." Also play by play seems recorded & not part of the game... There is NO emotion in the play by play guy...
2. Almost no crowd emotion. Very Dull presentation
3. Still the OL/DL interations are bad...Better but not by much...


All in all it seems like a good game but presentation & play by play will make this game boring as hell. Play by play really needs to be filled in from beginning to end of a play. On kick offs its like. "Takes the ball.............................................. ..........Tackled at the 40 yardline" Just a long silence between plays....

[Flamehead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Flamehead

Hardly any penalties called? This is huge, IMO, that's a basic part of football. Most NFL games average 12 +/-

Ian, are you able to respond directly to the lack of penalites? Could there have been a specific reason we weren't seeing any? Is this something that needs to be fixed, and if so, will you guys be able to do it before release?

[TwoHeadedDog]

Good:

1. The return of "formation subs." Long overdue . . . very essential. Moving it to the playcall menu was a good idea, as well.

2. The offensive playbooks look very deep. I saw a lot of plays that I didn't recognize from previous Maddens. Are there really 32 different defensive playbooks this year? It has been claimed in previous Maddens but not delivered.

3. The single kick returner formation. I'm glad to see that it made it into the game. I just hope that CPU teams with pro-bowl caliber returners use it.

4. Collinsworth is very solid. . . and I don't have any major issue with Hammond.

5. We didn't see a ton of it in the video, but it looks like the ability to run (and make moves) after the catch is much improved.

Also. . . This wasn't in the video, but I've noticed a few screenshots that had rookie pictures for late-round picks. I was impressed. Is it fair to say that we'll see a higher number of rookies with photos than last year?


Bad:

1. Certain tackle animations seem to make players slide above the ground in an awkward manner. I also noticed this post-play when players bump into each other.

2. There is an improved pocket and the Colts QB used it very well, but the interaction between D and O line still needs work. . . bumping, shoving, ect.

3. The huddle and kickoff need some variety. The huddle's "perfect circle" is just way off, and the kickoffs could use some deceptive pre-kick formations.

4. I'm not sure what to say about presentation. I'd like to see a video example of what the game looks like when someone just playes a quarter without hurrying or skipping any cut-scene.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by JagerMichael

I don't agree with this at all, and I am a developer. Of course you want to hear what you can do to make your product better, but constant criticism with no reinforcement of whats good can wear a person down. Not to mention, in an instance like this the compliments can help further the game. They aren't just empty comments of praise, it's telling them what people really like about the game which gives them input on where to put some focus for the future. Criticism is key in making a product great, but praise is just as important if you want your product to be well rounded.

Well said.

This philosophy is also used with our son's baseball coach. It doesn't matter if they won or lost, after each game, he will ask the team what areas did they do right and what areas do they need improving on.

It's a great tool to measure both ways.

[Nza]

I'll try and stick to 3 for each.

My likes:

- A lot of nice animations. Tackling is looking sharper. Love that big hit on Clark across the middle. There is finally a half decent tackling engine in Madden - one that does appear to reward swarming most of the time.

- I personally think the passing game isn't looking too bad myself. Some animations look a little odd, but I get a better feel from QB deliveries relative to the power than in some previous Madden's. WR play looks pretty nice as well, and DB play isn't too bad itself.

- It's nice to have commentary back. It's not perfect but it's a start. It helps bring some level of atmosphere back to the game.

And my dislikes:

- Still plenty of examples where a 2nd defender should have made an impact but didn't. Granted, it seems to mostly be on really quick tackles, but regardless even just something like a shoulder being driven in would be nicer than bouncing off. In general, I think there should be a greater focus on adding late gang tackle animations that aren't necessarily spectacular. As I said, just throwing a shoulder in to jar a tackle backwards or sidewards would be nice to see sometimes. Subtle things rather than spectacular things are what make up most of football (this could apply to a lot of other things in Madden though too).

- Blocking looks identical to Madden old gen, particularly pass blocking. I think it stems from defenders being able to twitch move in any direction as they please without momentum consequences. On a sack by Mathis, he just darts past the RT on the inside and the RT does absolutely nothing. Firstly, Mathis is fast but can't defy physics, and the RT should at least try and push him. A bump in the direction Mathis was going and that may just knock him off his course and prevent the sack. In general, OL just don't use their arms when they should it seems.

- The running really needs a dosage of realism badly. The way RB's dart around, the way Bob Sanders returned that int, ugh. It looks and must feel very unrealistic. It comes back to the subtle details I guess. Even the slight changes in direction need foot planting and weight shifting to achieve, but Madden doesn't acknowledge this. It stands out like a sore thumb unfortunately.

BTW, I haven't read most of this thread yet but I assume the bug in the Rice catch being challenged has already been pointed out? The one in the 4th Q video where the commentary etc suggests it was a bad outcome for the offense when in fact it was ruled a catch.

[ba11innnnn]

What I Liked

1. Graphics looks so much better and players look way realer

2. I love the new anamations and you can tell that gang tackling has been much improved

3. Tackles look better & realer and i didn't see the same tackle once

4. While game speed might not be exactly right, it looks much improved from last year

5. I love the whole feeling of the game when you start the game and you see the stadium and Madden talks. It really add a lot to the presentation

6. Collingsworth sounds great and fluid. WAYYY improved over the radio guy from last year, this really is great.

7.I love the new stat overlays and the play call screen. It great that i do not have to go to the start menu to see my stats.

8. This is the madden we have all being waiting for. It might not be perfect but it is MUCH better than last year. Compared to 08 to 09 i do no think you guys have to make as much changes for 2010 as you did this year (damn that was wordy).

Improvements

1. OL/DL interaction. I want to feel as there is a mini-war going on. If seems like the OL either breaks down immediately or the DL is not realistic in getting to the QB or makes an improper decision and move. I also want to see the DL be aggressive. These guys are BEASTS. I want to see them get frustrated and throw their hands up. Also, what about if you are controlling a Defenseive Lineman and you know you are not going to be able to get to the QB, you can press a button to put in position to try to batt the ball.

2. QB animations need to be improved. The QB don't feel smooth with their deliveries although they do look a lot better from last year. The leg kick has to go. Maybe you could add a sense of QB turning his head and reading the field.

3. Awareness - the players do not seem aware of their surroundings. They feel very robotic and they seem to just look foward as they run.

4. CB/WR Interactions - i have a huge giants fan, when you watch Plaxico he is constantly fighting for position with the DB and is for a better way to put it "fighting" overall.

5. This is hard to explain: i feel like that the game, although it looks awesome, just does not feel real. When i'm watching the game, there is a sense of excitement and nervousness. When I play Madden, it is fun but there is no sense of excitement. For example during the Super Bowl, there were huge up and downs throughout the game. Another example is when you get a huge run or deep ball, it just feel like "oh he caught it" instead of "oh my god what a catch".

6. Tackles - the tackles do look great, ,but it seems like every hit is either a huge hit or a broken tackle. I would like to see wrap up. For example (yes pardon my giants addiction), when Brandon Jacobs is running, you do not see guys trying to "hit-stick" him and making big tackles; rather you see guys trying to go at his knees.

Overall Madden 09 is a huge improvement over 2008. I mean, there is no comparison. You guys did a GREAT job improving the game. But, i feel if there were more programmers that the game could be more improved and more of the features and little details that might not be very high on your list could possibly be fulfilled. I really gotta say, you guys put in a lot of effort and although sometimes it doesn't seem like it, WE ALL appreciate you guys coming onto the boards and trying get our opinions and ideas put into the game. I love how you guys are open with your ideas and us talking back and forth about ideas. I think this is another reason why everyone is so excited. We know that you do not want to reveal features and stuff about that game so that it creates excitement, but for next year i think we should know what you guys are thinking. I feel this will make us much more excited then us not knowing about ideas. Ian and Phil i gotta hand it to you, tou turned this franchise around this year. You definetly have my "vote" as i will buy this game.

One question: Do you think next year, you guys will be able to include more of our ideas and stuff than this year? Not that you guys did not include our ideas but i'm wondering if our ideas will be on your priorities of things to add to the game.

[JagerMichael]

Quote: Originally Posted by ba11innnnn

One question: Do you think next year, you guys will be able to include more of our ideas and stuff than this year? Not that you guys did not include our ideas but i'm wondering if our ideas will be on your priorities of things to add to the game.

They've stated that they will be around throughout the offseason getting out input. And even saying how excited they are to see how much can be done in a years time with direct contact to the community.

I honestly think in the right setting (and the guys here at OS have done it well) that this could revolutionize game development.

[mudtiger]

Most of my likes/dislike have been mentioned but I'll still hit a few that are important to me.

Like

Bad passes from low THA qbs.
Throwing into double coverage resulting in incomplete passes.

Dislike
Ball carrier too agile.
Not necessarily part of the vids, but no accelerated clock which means 90% chance of no purchase for me.

What's up with all the east/west running? Are you guys just ingrained with always trying to get to the outside from previous maddens? Or is there some reason to avoid the middle this year? Like are all the big runs to the outside? Or are you just looking to get into space and out juke defenders? Just curious because of all the holes passed up in the middle.