Followup on the Gang Tackling Response

[Ian_Cummings_EA]

What's up everyone - I'm back with an update as promised.

Our guys got all the fixes in and I tweaked a bunch of animations to allow "adding on" much later, so I then played a full game against one of the other designers (which I won in OT). I thought I'd show off a drive (actually it's two drives) full of replays. Note this is with the new saved replay stuff that NCAA had last year )(one of my favorite features ever that's been long overdue):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ41mC15rvg
(for some reason it's not embedding)

I am very pleased with the results now, and again I can't thank you guys enough for the help and feedback.

Back to the original question, is our implementation the same as 2k's tackling? I'd say without a doubt the answer is a yes, but with a few asterisks:

* I think we're both on the same level with "consistency" (with our most recent fixes). Meaning, when a guy is in position to "add on", now we have around 75-80% success rate. That seemed about right on with what 2k had (at least from playing 2k8 and watching a bunch of youtube vids).
* I think they may have more gang tackling variety. This sucks to have to admit, but the more videos I watch the more and more stuff I see that we don't quite cover. Especially in 2k8, where they had "late hit" gang tackles (we can't have those obviously)
* I like our momentum matching a lot better in terms of not having to match a tackle from an exact angle...but matching tackles based on momentum. If you look at the 2nd clip in the video I sent yesterday, you'll see that McAlister was approaching from the front of the player, but since he had a bad pursuit angle, he aligned to the ballcarrier more towards his back. This is something no other game has had to my knowledge - interactions have always been slave to incoming angle (regardless of over or underpursuit) - which lessens your variety a lot.
* We have much more robust branching - once a tackle starts in Madden 09, you can spin, stiff arm, juke, and truck out of them. Not just some tackles too...EVERY tackle. The depth is really cool here too because based on what side the defender is on and your strengths as a ballcarrier (i.e. Spin Move Rating, Stiff Arm Rating, Juke Move Rating, Trucking Rating), you have to choose wisely on how you want to try and break out of the animation. This is what they just put on the Gamespot blog as the "Total Control Animation System". I always get a laugh at the tag lines marketing comes up with.

(A side note and funny story, our old marketing guy wanted to call Playmaker Control "On The Fly AI" for like 3 months before we finally sold him on Playmaker. And then I crack up because NHL 08's big tagline is "On The Fly AI". Awesome.)

Anyways, I hope you guys are enjoying this stuff...I sure am.

I also wanted to quote a post I put over at MaddenMania. This was in response to guys saying that we are still behind 2k in the animation department.

"You won't hear me refute that yet. I posted this elsewhere - games have their strengths and weaknesses. Historically, EA has nearly always won in the depth, logic, and AI departments, and 2k won in the animation and presentation departments. A big reason I've jumped into these lions dens is to get the real feedback from you guys on what exactly made 2k so special to you, and see how we can address those concerns by implementing similar features or hopefully one-upping them.

I literally have seen dozens of posts along the lines of "wow how sad is it that EA is just catching up to a game that's 4 years old"...a) that doesn't really help anything but b.) that just rolls off my back because again I'll admit we are behind in some areas, but they were too. It's just part of game development...now that we've been the only NFL game in town for a while Phil and I were just sick of being so disconnected from you guys - we want you to help us guide the direction of this game moving forward.

Hope that helps you guys understand my perspective - I'm not here to convince you to buy the Madden that I want to make. I'm here to get you guys to help me build the Madden that you want."

I am very appreciative of you guys policing the trolls so far...but again just know, I welcome all feedback - negative or positive (though preferably constructive).

Peace
Ian
(lead gameplay designer)

[Ian_Cummings_EA]

Oh yeah, also if you see any weirdness or bugs in any of those replays, send me a PM or post it here. I didn't take a hard look at any of those plays because I was just kind of rushing to get you guys a look at the new stuff now that it's in.

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

I also wanted to quote a post I put over at MaddenMania. This was in response to guys saying that we are still behind 2k in the animation department. "You won't hear me refute that yet. I posted this elsewhere - games have their strengths and weaknesses. Historically, EA has nearly always won in the depth, logic, and AI departments, and 2k won in the animation and presentation departments. A big reason I've jumped into these lions dens is to get the real feedback from you guys on what exactly made 2k so special to you, and see how we can address those concerns by implementing similar features or hopefully one-upping them. I literally have seen dozens of posts along the lines of "wow how sad is it that EA is just catching up to a game that's 4 years old"...a) that doesn't really help anything but b.) that just rolls off my back because again I'll admit we are behind in some areas, but they were too. It's just part of game development...now that we've been the only NFL game in town for a while Phil and I were just sick of being so disconnected from you guys - we want you to help us guide the direction of this game moving forward. Hope that helps you guys understand my perspective - I'm not here to convince you to buy the Madden that I want to make. I'm here to get you guys to help me build the Madden that you want." I am very appreciative of you guys policing the trolls so far...but again just know, I welcome all feedback - negative or positive (though preferably constructive). Peace Ian (lead gameplay designer)

I hope that everyone takes the time to read and pays close attention to this part of the post.

[JohnDoe8865]

Thanks for the quick reply and the new video. This kind of interaction is unprecedented and everyone here really appreciates it.

[countryboy]

The Raiders!!!!!!

Ok, now that thats out of the way, I liked what I saw especially the momentum changing tackle at the end. Good stuff.

And I noticed the Pats wearing throwbacks.

[SageInfinite]

This dude is THE MAN. The tackling is looking good to me. Only 1 thing bothered me about the video and that was the replays were too far away, I had to squint my eyes to see some things, lol. Great video and thanx again Ian. This means alot to someone like me. Just knowing that we exist over here at OS means alot man.

[beau1221]

thanks Ian for your quick responsiveness and dedication to what you're doing..

not to rush you but are we still going to see a list (hopefully with pictures) off all the uniform edits/changes/tweaks/fixes you guys have done that you had mentioned?



ps. are those New England's old-school red throwbacks?

[poster]

Thanks Ian. Very much appreciated and looking good. Hopefully like you said you can get more variety in the future. Hopefully that variety includes more than 2 people engaging and holding on at once when gang tackling. Still looking very nice and like others have said, we appreciate you asking and listening to us hardcore football fans.

[yamabushi]

lets critic;
out of the whole vid I only saw 4 of what I would consider a gang tackle.
0:17 the 2nd man comes in, then just kinda drops off before the tackle is done.

0:39 same as above, 2nd man doesnt seem to be affecting anything. Like the animations there just to be seen, not affect. (and before the tackle, whats that little spin thing the tackler does?)

0:58 that 1 looked good.

1:24 again, like the others the 2nd man comes in, interacts (to some effect this time), then falls off.

just my quick impressions.

[Hurricain]

Wow, great stuff. This open relationship with the Devs is amazing. Thank you for the video, I'm looking forward for more.