Followup on the Gang Tackling Response

[Deltron]

The last two tackles on the video were beautiful to see!

And it looks like the issue of uninvolved defenders slowing up upon the initiation of a tackling animation has been fixed?

It's great to see this progress being made and that last momentum changing gang tackle really says it all. I really appreciate this.

[Ian_Cummings_EA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nza

Which is why a pure physics engine where animations aren't pre-recorded and loaded, but rather animations are real time displays of movement made on the fly based on various influences, has got to be the holy grail here. What you describe is a big reason why the gaming world is shifting towards animation systems that place complexity and importance in the generation of the animation itself, not the code determining the right animation and the man work making the right animation. I believe you guys have already somewhat started - unless I read wrong, Madden 09 will feature catch animations that track hands (and hence arms) to the ball, no? In other words, player arms are now moving in (hopefully) realistic ranges based on the human body freely to go after the ball rather than produce a static animation which occasionally sees the ball "merge" to the hands like in previous Madden's. This animation concept is what needs to be applied to all aspects - not static, but dynamically generating animations that are produced for the exact specifications and requirements of the situation at hand. Now THAT is "next gen" animation, but perhaps too much so for today's hardware.

Great point...but this is a fine line here with what's achievable. You can kind of see from our animation director (Simon Sherr) is that pretty much his whole reason for being is to find ways to reduce the amounts of animation to make features "work", and let the tools and code figure out the rest. This makes it so we can spend all our time on variety instead of on "coverage". The new tackling and catching systems are very good examples of this. But in the example I stated above about blocking, there isn't really anything close to a solution that could procedurally generate the movements needed for blocking animations - and honestly that'd be a LONG way out. Just think of all those subtle movements of edge rushing or hand fighting or pancakes or what have you...where we'll be able to attack procedural / runtime animation in that situation is with a new tech we're working on implementing for '10 called "interaction scaling", that will work to match up interactions based on player heights and scales. NBA Street had this so that a 5'11 guy and a 7'0" guy could use the same dunk animation and then scale at runtime to match their hands to the rim. You'll also see this a LOT in Facebreaker because their player sizes are so diverse...the punch animation may be the same but the GAME moves his fist to make contact with the other guy at the right spot, whether he's 3 feet tall or 7 feet tall.

[Ian_Cummings_EA]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeetaa6

1. I thought I had read early on regarding Madden 09 that there would be more "continuation of the play"? Does that mean we'll have late hits available to us right after the whistle? That'd be great. Had a blast with them in 2K8. Dive on a guy when he's down and he gets up all pissed off.

We haven't found a way to put this in yet without jeopardizing our relationship with the NFL.

Our idea for next year is to be able to still dive and hit stick players within like a really tiny range as they go out of bounds...kind of like you did it on accident...and it would be a chance at a penalty - i.e. not called every time.

Quote: Originally Posted by jeetaa6

2. Is the game fixed where the players will not "go through/morph through" sideline players, personnel, and walls after they go out of bounds? That's kind of disturbing both on and off the field.

This isn't really all that great yet. I didn't work on any of the sideline stuff, but do I know that the tech needed to add a lot more players while still getting PS3 to 60fps meant that they weren't going to have time to have them interact with onfield players. You shouldn't see them walk through walls anymore though.

[Ian_Cummings_EA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Foosball39

Hi, Ian. Thanks for responding to many of people's questions and concerns. I had a few things I was wondering if you could address based on what I had seen in the vidoe you posted in this thread with part 2 of gang tackling. The first run, it appears the safety seen on screen goes before the handoff even happens and then when the replay is shown again from the other angle, the other safety just runs to sideline and stands there. My guess is that he's in some type of zone coverage. The second run, the one safety runs toward the line, but away from the running back. Then the other safety again appears to be in some type of zone and just goes to his spot which is the opposite way where the running back is going and that leads to a huge gain until he can finally make the tackle. At the 1:12 mark theres a toss play and one corner seems to go in right away, but maybe that's a corner blitz. Not sure if you guys know what play is called for each replay to know if thats the case. Then the safety that is at the bottom right hand of the screen drops back and never goes after the running back once he cuts back and goes towards the middle. It seems maybe that these guys in zone just drop back into there area instead of going to the back when it's a run. I wonder what it might be like against an all zone play. Thanks again for feedback!

Good points...I'll take a look at these today.

[Ian_Cummings_EA]

Quote: Originally Posted by PacMan3000

Hey Ian, At any point, now or in the future, will you also want suggestions for improvements in other aspects of the game (franchise mode, atmosphere, presentation, etc)?

Maybe soon. Not yet though.

[JagerMichael]

Wow, early bird gets the worm eh Ian?

Just wanted to drop my thanks for your interaction with the community.

One of the questions I've seen asked has been about some of the features in NCAA making it over to Madden. Specifically the sideline tip toe runs and the convoy blocking.

And as a request for a next video, I know using the athletic backs is a blast for animations, but could you show us some bruising runs to see how the new tackle and animation system works with them. Maybe a Marion Barber or Brandon Jacobs...anyone that runs up the gut becaus they like it.

Thanks again Ian,
Jager

[vabeachboy19]

Ian

First off you are doing a great job.Thank you for all of your feedback. This game is a definate buy for me after 3 years of me being disappointed in the Next Gen Madden. I have been a Faithful madden fan since Sega Genesis in 91.but anyway...2 things that i think will help the overall flow of the game.

1. When the offense breaks the huddle the linemen should walk to the line and once they get to the line they should take a few seconds to point out they're assignments and get situated. And at the same time the QB should be looking over the defence and checking his players to see if they are all situated. Basically. the whole pre snap procedure should take at least 5 - 10 seconds once the offence gets to the line of scrimage. And this gives the defence a chance to make adjustments.

2. The QB drop back animation is way too fast. I believe if you slow down that animation drastically it will create a more natural packet and a smoother pass flow. Its far too many times when the qb drops back and instead of taking 5 steps and throw you have to wait on your reciever to make they're break. This is because he is dropping back too fast. The dropback should be smooth. Not fast and jerky. And if you watch the "user" controlled QB in some of the posted videos you will notice the user is controlling the qb drop back and overall it makes a much better looking drop back result.

Thanks again for all your work. Hopefully these are some things you will consider.

[callmetaternuts]

Again, a big thanks to Ian and his crew. This is awesome feedback and interaction, exactly what we as a community need. We are obviously a passionate bunch about Madden and NCAA (and all sports games.......heck, all games period). To be able to hear the reasoning, the logic, and what goes into this is amazing. IT doesnt mean we get everything we want, but these little tweaks that are being done, you think anything like this would be fixed for 09 without this kind of interaction (that prolly sounded worse than i meant it to).

Thanks for the interaction Ian.

Is there a huge risk/reward in using the stutter or break tackle (window) feature? i.e. increased fumbles? I dont want a fumble fest, but i dont want to go online and see someone 360'ing down the sideline.

[The Autumn Wind]

I just want to chime in with a thank you, Ian, for taking the time to address the community's issues and post videos. Accountability to the sector of the gaming public (admittedly not your largest revenue base) is something I've been wanting, and you're delivering in a huge way. First, like countryboy, I am loving that my Raiders made it on the vids. But more importantly, this game looks like it has the right feel in the tackling department. The dynamism of the "total control" system comes out clearly, but it doesn't appear overdone (i.e. you can't just break out of any tackle by hitting a button, but you can interact with the tackle sequence in ways previously not possible). The two tackles that really stood out as impressive to me were the momentum changing tackle and the play that Harrison made in tandem with another defender at the line. I have played APF nonstop since release, and these videos have shown that your claim to be roughly on par with their tackling system holds water. In fact, these two tackles seem to surpass the capacity of that system because your system doesn't force you into a lurch animation when hit from the side with a stronger or faster player and it appears that a wider range of outcomes is possible.

One thing I would like to see down the road is reach tackles. This is an element that APF has implemented somewhat nicely and I think that having that ability in Madden would further improve the dynamism of the running game.

Also, on a side note, the pocket dynamics look improved--a very good thing. Thanks again for the feedback.

[michigan21]

Ian, will there be any presentation at all? For example, some kind of halftime show or postgame show? And do the playoffs have a different feel than the regular season. Thanks.