Followup on the Gang Tackling Response

[jeetaa6]

First of all, thanks, Ian...for taking the time to banter with us here at OS. Totally unexpected from EA to be honest. But you've changed many an attitude it appears. Thanks.

Couple questions:
1. I thought I had read early on regarding Madden 09 that there would be more "continuation of the play"? Does that mean we'll have late hits available to us right after the whistle? That'd be great. Had a blast with them in 2K8. Dive on a guy when he's down and he gets up all pissed off.

2. Is the game fixed where the players will not "go through/morph through" sideline players, personnel, and walls after they go out of bounds? That's kind of disturbing both on and off the field.

Thanks again, Ian.

[buttsakk]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

We've had it in and out since 07, but it finally works well and is set for more careless DB's in 09. One of my favorite little features actually...we've been wanting it forever.

OMG thats sweet, i want to see if i can get a Leon Lett like situation to happen!

[P2K]

Last two tackles tell me that gang tackling really is in the game. Great work, Ian and the guys. Like you said, it's just the variety that needs to be changed up.

[bison160]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeetaa6

Couple questions: 1. I thought I had read early on regarding Madden 09 that there would be more "continuation of the play"? Does that mean we'll have late hits available to us right after the whistle? That'd be great. Had a blast with them in 2K8. Dive on a guy when he's down and he gets up all pissed off. Thanks again, Ian.

Hey man. I know im not Ian, nor do I work for EA. But I am a developer of a current licensed racing simulation, and from my experiences in licensing Im 99.99% sure madden will NEVER have late hits. The league will just not allow it. Just like you will never see actual fights break out, and probably why helmets no longer pop off on big hits.(I loved that feature) That stuff is just not supposed to happen. In the simulation i have worked on...The car manufacturers would not even let the cars start on fire. So Ian can probably give you a more definitive answer, but that is my thoughts on the situation.

On the other hand, Ian, I would like too say good job man. As part of a dev team that also stays in direct communication and draws feedback and answers community questions through forums, I know the stresses that it can cause and all of the crap you sometimes have to wade through to get to the real constructive information. And heck, your community is exponentially larger than ours! So again, congratulations on what you have been able to do.
Untill I got on these forums and read countless posts the last few days, i was planning on skipping on madden this year. And thats saying something considering ive bought every football game available for around 15 years now. Ive even found myself putting in madden08 and ncaa08 to disect the issues that have bugged me for the past few years on next gen consoles.

Anyways, just wanted to let you know you are doing a great job of balancing the professionalism and personal attitude it takes to make the community happy. Its a fine line...and your right on course. Thanks again, and Goodluck.

[CowherPower]

Ian,
I want to thank you for being open and honest about Madden this year.
I will admit though.....not being able to fully disengage from the offensive player kinda saddens me...(hopefully I'll be able to remember to hit the bumper BEFORE I get engaged...lol) but I feel I can trust you when you say you cats have it working pretty good now.

Hopefully with your continued interaction with us here,this issue can be completely resolved in the future.

I do believe I've read enough to warrant a purchase...(said I was going to rent first)...but with your continuing interaction,and posts I've read from respected members here,I feel pretty good about Madden this year.

Thanks again....your efforts are very much appreciated

[mrnoobie]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

Our current blocking AI is ridiculously complex. If we told LBzrule to just post basic rules of pass blocking it'd probably take up 4 pages...so now imagine converting that into C++ code. To answer your question, it's mostly all handled algorithmically instead of situationally - the reason for that is that it has to be flexible for user input (i.e. a user-controlled guy on defense blitzes 9 guys from one side or whatever). But moving forward, we do need to have specific situation stuff like the drop back and specific stunt / twist handling. The other big wrinkle is in animations...the best AI does nothing if the animations aren't there to back it out...which I think is actually a lot of our problem - the logic isn't perfect but it isn't bad, but we don't have adequate animation support for it.

im looking forward the the implementations of the OL/DL animations

[kcxiv]

They need to make the game feel more alive. Have a soul. Madden seems dead. Just look at the APF/NCAA comparison on youtube and you will see what i mean. I want to play a NFL game as much as the next person, but that game has to top at least NFL2k5. IT hasnt.

Year 4 with no NFL football game and seriously wanting to get back. We will see.

[Nza]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

The other big wrinkle is in animations...the best AI does nothing if the animations aren't there to back it out...which I think is actually a lot of our problem - the logic isn't perfect but it isn't bad, but we don't have adequate animation support for it.

Which is why a pure physics engine where animations aren't pre-recorded and loaded, but rather animations are real time displays of movement made on the fly based on various influences, has got to be the holy grail here. What you describe is a big reason why the gaming world is shifting towards animation systems that place complexity and importance in the generation of the animation itself, not the code determining the right animation and the man work making the right animation.

I believe you guys have already somewhat started - unless I read wrong, Madden 09 will feature catch animations that track hands (and hence arms) to the ball, no? In other words, player arms are now moving in (hopefully) realistic ranges based on the human body freely to go after the ball rather than produce a static animation which occasionally sees the ball "merge" to the hands like in previous Madden's. This animation concept is what needs to be applied to all aspects - not static, but dynamically generating animations that are produced for the exact specifications and requirements of the situation at hand. Now THAT is "next gen" animation, but perhaps too much so for today's hardware.

[FlyingFinn]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

It should be in there - assuming they get builds that are the "latest" version...our stuff was checked in today. Also, in case anyone doesn't know, the community day is here at Tiburon and I'll be there for a lot of the time.

Can I swing by? J/K (well only kidding if the answer is no...)

[Steeler99]

Quote: Originally Posted by ch46647

First off, I just want to thank you for taking your time and doing this for us Ian. I really think this game is coming along geat. I dont know how far along you are in the development process but I really wish you guys could make the crowd noise/interaction better. The pre, post, and halftime show would be great but if you could just make the crowd more realistic I think that would do wonders. Is this something that could be worked on before the release of 09? Once again thanks so much for everything.

Great point ... PLEASE make it so the HOME crowd does NOT cheer after visiting team scores, etc. On the flip side, let's hear some emotion from the crowd when the home team makes a big play, score, etc.

As the others have stated, thanks for taking the time to interact here. That will go a long ways towards enhancing EA's image with the masses.