Gang Tackling Challenge Response (from Ian Cummings)

[J-Unit40]

Quote: Originally Posted by grunt

Wow. I will buy your game just because your no bull**** approach.

Co-sign. I'm not much of a fan of the NFL (love college football), but I will support this product this year because of this guy and his efforts. If producers listen to us and try to make a game better, I have no problem spending $60 for a good game that wants to be great or a great game that wants to be even better.

[Ian_Cummings_EA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ram209

Ian Can you please please please answer my question buddy Why in the heck does Madden have so many of those damn WWE style shoulder tackles, those take away so much from the realism. If Madden could eliminate those type of "over the top NFL Blitz" style tackles that would be great. Also there is to many of people just grazing each other resulting in a tackle. There are far to many situations where these two type of tackles happen. Very rarely in football if at all will you see the defensive guy make a tackle with out going to the ground, in Madden this happens WAY to much. I hope Im explaining this the right way, if Im not please let me know so some how we can get a video example. If you could let us know if these types of tackles have been toned down or hopefully removed altogether

We've tried to tone those down a lot, but there's a few still existing in the library. One thing I've definitely seen in these forums is that they agree with you - they want a lot more textbook wrap ups. We have a ton of these captured in our library
but I'd like to get a whole new suite for next year.

So to answer your question, yes, they've definitely been toned down a lot...I don't know of any tackles that we have remaining (other than maybe 1 or 2 hit sticks) where the defender doesn't go to the ground with the ballcarrier. But I would like to get a lot more long wrap up animations now that our gang tackling system is working quite splendidly.

[Ram209]

Thank you very much for answering and again we CANT THANK YOU ENOUGH!!!!!!!!

[Ian_Cummings_EA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sigma4Life

Ian, I'd like to know what you guys think of this idea to utilize the QB awareness rating. (sorry this is OT but important) Great idea to replace the vision cone

I LOVE this idea...someone actually brought it up over on the EA forums and I was totally into it. We've been discussing this a bit at work - glad to know who to give the kudos to.

- Ian

[Kev5890]

Atleast the worst WWE style tackle is gone. The one where the defender jumped on the ball carrier and flung his hands up..and the ball carriers head snapped back haha

I absolutely HATED that animation

[Sigma4Life]

Quote: Originally Posted by TombSong

LB on top of things !! Now I gotta be a squeaky wheel.....If you got video, show a WR running a post route and throw the ball before he makes his cut and watch what happens in 2k. The WR will not look for the ball because he dont know its suppose to be thrown that early. Why would he...the play called for him to run a post. When a WR can react to a ball before he makes his cut on the route he is suppose to run, this negates the defenses play call because I could have called the right deep coverage to stop the post, but since the ball was thrown early by the user, the WR is still able to make a play on the ball underneath and that aint exactly fair, and it from a design pov I would think force a programmer to give the DB AI unrealistic abilities.

Very good point I had forgotten about. This is one of the best features of the 2K passing engine. It rewards good defensive playcalls without forcing the game to rely on superhuman abilities by the DBs.

In addition, I think this could be tied into the AWR rating. A high AWR QB & WR should be able to connect at any point during a route, just as it works now. For lower AWR players you should be penalized for throwing a post or out route early.

[DONF]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Not the best video for it because it's not extensive. I already had this captured but here ya go.

Watching that vid brings tears to my eyes. True gameplay! Found like a fossil at a dig site.

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by DONF

Good deal. I looked at the other vids from Madden 08 gang tackling and it showed the BEST of Madden 08 gang tackling. But, when the game hit the street you rarely witnessed gang tackling and the animation for the pancake style tackles were terrible. Ian will this happen again? So far the previous Vids of 09 do not show off the tackling you displayed in the vids. (pretty much the same as 08 in some respects). Am I to assume the programming logic has the gang tackling frequency very low like 08?? The short Vids of two to three gang tackles was also done for 08. So WOW me by showing actual game footage (a full quarter) that displays your gang tackle enhancement and also the new animation. 2k5 had gang tackling thru out the gameplay and a very next gen animation. So put your dukes up and lets see if this is the BEST of 09 gang tackling like the BEST of 08 gang tackling vid. But when the game ships and we have it in hand we are all confused and let down!! Thanks

the earlier gameplay vids were done before Ian and the others involved, started tweaking the gang tackling.

At least I think I'm right.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by stiffarmleft

So you think that motion capture is better than NaturalMotion in the context of a football game? Wouldn't NaturalMotion make life a bit easier for the animators. Thanks for all your responses, much appreciated.

Ian's fielded this over on MM, so I'll try to explain what he said (don't feel like digging for the post)...

The trouble with ragdoll physics in a football game is that when everyone basically goes limp on contact, it creates very little variety in tackles. It's great for dead bodies in some games rolling down hills and stuff, but for football, it's so dynamic it creates no dynamic.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

I LOVE this idea...someone actually brought it up over on the EA forums and I was totally into it. We've been discussing this a bit at work - glad to know who to give the kudos to. - Ian

Very hot idea actually. I got one for you but for next year though. Tagging certain Defensive Linemen as two gap players. Let me see if I can explain in brief. I will use Ace - Singleback Big in the game and I Formation as examples. Let's put them up against a 43 defense. Ehh what the heck chalk board.


ACE

TE T G C G T TE

D C B A A B C D


Now here I have to defend 8 gaps. With the I formation we intuit a ghost gap on the weak side so even there I have to defend 8 gaps. Two of A-D. In the standard base 43, 34 I only have seven players up front. So what this means already is if someone does not draw a double team, or if we are not run blitzing, then we are going to get killed on the ground. I think just by adding 2 gap Dlinemen in would help alot. Maybe have it as a weapon or something. Of course not every team is going to have one, but I think that's good. It opens up the play style. Some people would have to blitz more than others. Maybe just have all the brickwall Dlinemen be two gap players?