Gang Tackling Challenge Response (from Ian Cummings)

[NEW_ORLEANS]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ram209

Ian great job, I had a quick question about tackling in the last thread not sure if you saw it. So here it is again! Ian if your still looking at this thread I have another question/comment. Why in the heck does Madden have so many of those damn WWE style shoulder tackles, those take away so much from the realism. If Madden could eliminate those type of "over the top NFL Blitz" style tackles that would be great. Also there is to many of people just grazing each other resulting in a tackle. There are far to many situations where these two type of tackles happen. Very rarely in football if at all will you see the defensive guy make a tackle with out going to the ground, in Madden this happens WAY to much. I hope Im explaining this the right way, if Im not please let me know so some how we can get a video example. If you could let us know if these types of tackles have been toned down or hopefully removed altogether

I hated when I watched the Madden challenge show on ESPN they dudes would go you got popped. Damn thats geeky.

Thanks. You gained a fan today.

[Ian_Cummings_EA]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Not the best video for it because it's not extensive. I already had this captured but here ya go.

Yeah, I'm not going to make a video to match this one.

Seriously, I could watch their WR's run routes all day. Everything from the stance to the chucks to the routes...it's all done amazingly well. I think APF was even better...their slips and stuff off the line were really really good.

Next year I'll have to make sure we have a thread to knock that off the platform.

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

Yeah, I'm not going to make a video to match this one. Seriously, I could watch their WR's run routes all day. Everything from the stance to the chucks to the routes...it's all done amazingly well. I think APF was even better...their slips and stuff off the line were really really good. Next year I'll have to make sure we have a thread to knock that off the platform.

Madden is coming to

[Nza]

The tackling is looking better now. Thanks for the effort, Ian. As I suspected though in previous threads, it isn't quite 2K as admitted but the groundwork is there. I think the biggest gap is just making sure these "collection" gang tackles that change momentum late are happening whenever it should - I.e. possibly from any starting tackle animation. I'd hate to give up a TD because a fellow defender got to the ball carrier first and instigated a tackle animation that didn't allow other defenders to join in and put a stop to the forward momentum. So it's encouraging to see this is being addressed for 09 and not simply left on the to-do list for 2010.

Hopefully this also means those "stolen" tackles are being addressed too. I get the idea - defenders coming in and knocking other defenders off, which happens (John Lynch calls it "friendly fire") - but the thing is most I've seen seem to be happening randomly and not where the 2nd defender's body is actually knocking the first defender off. This is IMO where the physics code should be implemented. I can understand not wanting to shift to a pure physics engine in the Madden series yet (although hopefully it is on the agenda down the line, perhaps the next consoles?), but I think physics can still make an appearance in some aspects. In the mean time though, if you made all the times where defenders stole a ball carrier instead be times where they join in on the tackle to form a proper gang tackle, then you're on 2K's level for sure.

[Ian_Cummings_EA]

Quote: Originally Posted by TombSong

LB on top of things !! Now I gotta be a squeaky wheel.....If you got video, show a WR running a post route and throw the ball before he makes his cut and watch what happens in 2k. The WR will not look for the ball because he dont know its suppose to be thrown that early. Why would he...the play called for him to run a post. When a WR can react to a ball before he makes his cut on the route he is suppose to run, this negates the defenses play call because I could have called the right deep coverage to stop the post, but since the ball was thrown early by the user, the WR is still able to make a play on the ball underneath and that aint exactly fair, and it from a design pov I would think force a programmer to give the DB AI unrealistic abilities.

This actually might fall under a much bigger design debate - would you mind starting a new thread about it? Thx.

[Ram209]

Ian

In regards to 2k cant you just "use there code" Let me explain, Say for instance Toyota comes out with this great car that get you 70miles to gallon and does 0-60 in 4sec.. etc etc etc.... Honda would buy the car and dissect and see how Toyota made the engine and such. So couldn't you guys do the same and just take the same "code" that determines Gang tackles... WR/DB interaction Oline/Dline interaction from there game and implement it? Or is it apples and oranges? Hope you know what Im asking

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

Next year I'll have to make sure we have a thread to knock that off the platform.

Now if LBRule can just make a demo showing 2Ks pocket/QB vs Maddens :-)

[Ian_Cummings_EA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sigma4Life

Ian, there are 3 huge problems that need to be resolved with Madden's pass blocking. 1. Suction blocking - this is obvious and needs no more explanation 2. The o-linemen are psychic and always know which direction to block. In real life linemen block to protect a certain spot where the QB is supposed to be. In Madden they ALWAYS know where the QB is in relation to the defender and provide perfect protection no matter where the QB moves. This is why pass protection doesn't break down when the QB drops back 20 yards or rolls out play after play. 3. Defensive linemen should not get pancaked on pass plays. Far too often pass plays are extended because 2 or 3 d-linemen are knocked to the ground while all 5 o-linemen are still standing. D-linemen are superior athletes than most o-linemen and this needs to be represented in the game. At the 2:00 minute mark you'll see a perfect example of a D-lineman getting pancaked on a pass play. new madden gameplay vid: Cowboys vs Eagles Hopefully all of these issues can be tweaked in time time for the 09 release.

Can you start a new thread about this? It's great feedback so I don't want it to get lost.