KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

[KBLover]

Based on ideas and concepts from dfos81 and Playmaker, I'm going to try a second experimental set.

Here's the sliders so far. I will present "Hard All-Pro" and All-Madden level sliders. I have dedicated franchises for each of these sets so I can test independently and with the same teams/league environments.

I added a 100 Fatigue Set for All-Madden level play.

Coaching and Scheme sliders (optional, but they do make a difference):
Examining Franchise's Elephant in the Room: Coaching Schemes


(Game Options: 27-Dec-2011)
Quarter Length: 12 Minutes
Accel Clock: 20 sec (to match the forced 20 sec of franchise mode)
Injuries: 44
Fatigue: 73
Game Speed: Normal or Very Fast (haven't tried other speeds yet)
Speed Threshold: Normal/33, Very Fast/16

Coach Mode Speed Threshold: Very Slow/15 (thanks to coach42201 for testing this and reporting findings - he uses 73 fatigue with the auto-subs that go with it)

Very Fast/16 is what I primarily use. I may need to make an adjustment for Normal/33. I know Jdoug and crazyman play on Normal. If anyone else does, let me know how it's playing now.

Coach Mode: Off (haven't tested coach mode yet, feel free to try if you'd like)

Any option not listed is Your Choice and shouldn't have any real impact, though I do encourage dabbling in custom playbooks, especially on defense if you have a favorite overall scheme.

(Coaching Sliders: 16-Feb-2012)
Offense:
Run/Pass: 50
Aggression: 100
HB Carries: 20

Positional Priorities/Style:
QB: 100/1, HB: 0/0, FB: 0/0, WR: 0/0, TE: 0/1, T: 0/1, G: 0/2, C: 0/2, K: 100/1

Defense:
3-4/4-3: Your choice
Run/Pass: 10
Aggression: 100

Positional Priorities/Style:
DE: 0/0, DT: 40/2, OLB: 0/0, MLB: 0/0, CB: 0/0, FS: 0/0, SS: 0/1, P: 100/1

3-4 Positional Priorities/Style (BETA):
DE: 80/2, DT: 80/2, OLB: 0/2, MLB: 0/0, CB: 0/0, FS: 0/0, SS: 0/1, P: 100/1

Injury & Fatigue
Injury		44
Fatigue		73
Subs
QB Out		1
QB In		2
RB Out		85
RB In		87
WR Out		66
WR In		73
FB/TE Out		66
FB/TE In		73
OL Out		24
OL In		29
DT Out		66
DT In		76
DE Out		66
DE In		76
LB Out		14
LB In		19
CB Out		24
CB In		29
S Out		24
S In		29

Penalties:
(Updated: 4-Dec-2011)
Offside: 85
False Start: 0
Holding: 56
Facemask: 56
DPI: 0
OPI: 0
KR/PR Interference: 50
Clipping: 52
Grounding: 0
Roughing Passer: 54
Roughing Kicker: 50

Starting with v3 Beta, the listed value is for Very Fast play. Any differences for Normal speed play will be noted in brackets -> [ ]


(Updated: 13-Jan-2012)
100 Fatigue Injuries and Subs

They are Very Fast/16 threshold, with Normal/33 threshold settings in [ ] - developed by AndrewGW88

Injury & Fatigue
Injury		7
Fatigue		100
Subs
QB Out		1
QB In		2
RB Out		81
RB In		84
WR Out		1
WR In		2
FB/TE Out		15
FB/TE In		25
OL Out		1
OL In		2
DT Out		30
DT In		40
DE Out		30
DE In		40
LB Out		1
LB In		2
CB Out		1
CB In		2
S Out		1
S In		2

(Positions that are mostly packages get low sub rates, which are most of them, really. DL and HB are about the only fatigue subs in most cases. If you want HB to stay in longer, try 80/82 - by AndrewGW88)

100 Fatigue Slider Settings (Front Seven Emphasis) (Updated: 24-Apr-2012) User CPU QB Acc 7 55 Pass Blk 0 5 WR Catch 20 55 Break Tkl 0 10 Run Blk 0 85 Fumble 5 30 Pass Reaction 20 85 Ints 20 35 Pass Rush 55 80 Run Reaction 85 90 Blk Shed 5 55 Tackles 60 66 FG Power 38 FG Acc 40 Punt Power 41 Punt Acc 32 KO Power 50

All-Pro 100 Fatigue Slider Settings (Reactions + Pass Rush Emphasis) (Updated: 1-Mar-2012)
	User	CPU
QB Acc	8	55
Pass Blk	0	0
WR Catch	30	55
Break Tkl	0	14
Run Blk	15 [7]	64
Fumble	20	30
Pass Reaction	75	85
Ints	35	35
Pass Rush	85	85
Run Reaction	75	85 [92]
Blk Shed	5	5
Tackles	50	50
FG Power	38
FG Acc	40
Punt Power	41
Punt Acc	32
KO Power	50

100 Fatigue Slider Settings (Reactions Emphasis) (Updated: 27-Feb-2012)
	User	CPU
QB Acc	8	55
Pass Blk	0	0
WR Catch	30	55
Break Tkl	0	14
Run Blk	10 [7]	64
Fumble	9	30
Pass Reaction	55	85
Ints	20	35
Pass Rush	30	40
Run Reaction	75	85 [92]
Blk Shed	5	5
Tackles	50	50
FG Power	38
FG Acc	40
Punt Power	41
Punt Acc	32
KO Power	50

100 Fatigue Slider Settings (Updated: 13-Jan-2012)
	User	CPU
QB Acc	8	15
Pass Blk	0	0
WR Catch	40	40 [45]
Break Tkl	0	0
Run Blk	24 [22]	55 [60]
Fumble	22	35
Pass Reaction	45 [40]	45
Ints	20 [15]	20
Pass Rush	25	25
Run Reaction	57 [47]	60
Blk Shed	5	5
Tackles	45	45
FG Power	38
FG Acc	40
Punt Power	41
Punt Acc	32
KO Power	50

100 Fatigue Slider Settings (Block Shed Emphasis) (Updated: 15-Jan-2012)
	User	CPU
QB Acc	8	15
Pass Blk	0	0
WR Catch	30	45
Break Tkl	0	0
Run Blk	20	83
Fumble	10	40
Pass Reaction	30	50
Ints	20	20
Pass Rush	0	20
Run Reaction	40	40
Blk Shed	80	80
Tackles	40	45
FG Power	38
FG Acc	40
Punt Power	41
Punt Acc	32
KO Power	50

(27-Dec-2011) [Normal Game speed settings in brackets] All-Pro Sliders v3 (beta)
Slider Settings
	User	CPU
QB Acc	20	37
Pass Blk	0	0
WR Catch	50	50
Break Tkl	0	0
Run Blk	37 [20]	90
Fumble	30	40
Pass Reaction	85	85 [85]
Ints	25 [25]	25
Pass Rush	30	50 [52]
Run Reaction	85	85 [85]
Blk Shed	40 [30]	50 [55]
Tackles	50	50
FG Power	38
FG Acc	40
Punt Power	41
Punt Acc	32
KO Power	50

(27-Dec-2011) [Normal Game speed settings in brackets] All-Pro Sliders v3 (beta)
Slider Settings
	User	CPU
QB Acc	20	37
Pass Blk	0	0
WR Catch	50	50
Break Tkl	0	0
Run Blk	37 [20]	90
Fumble	30	40
Pass Reaction	85	85 [85]
Ints	25 [25]	25
Pass Rush	30	50 [52]
Run Reaction	85	85 [85]
Blk Shed	40 [30]	50 [55]
Tackles	50	50
FG Power	38
FG Acc	40
Punt Power	41
Punt Acc	32
KO Power	50

(Updated 27-Dec-2011) [Normal Game speed settings in brackets] All-Madden Sliders v3 (beta)
Slider Settings
	User	CPU
QB Acc	10	15 [33]
Pass Blk	0	0
WR Catch	45	45
Break Tkl	0	0
Run Blk	15 [14]	55
Fumble	30 [20]	40
Pass Reaction	50 [45]	50 [75]
Ints	15	15 [26]
Pass Rush	30	40 [35]
Run Reaction	50 [45]	50 [75]
Blk Shed	5	5 [45]
Tackles	45	50 [45]
FG Power	38
FG Acc	40
Punt Power	41
Punt Acc	32
KO Power	50

(17-Nov-2011) All-Madden Sliders v2
Slider Settings
	User	CPU
QB Acc	20	27
Pass Blk	0	0
WR Catch	45	45
Break Tkl	0	0
Run Blk	36	36
Fumble	13	13
Pass Reaction	40	40
Ints	15	15
Pass Rush	20	20
Run Reaction	40	40
Blk Shed	0	0
Tackles	35	35
FG Power	38
FG Acc	40
Punt Power	41
Punt Acc	32
KO Power	50

All-Pro v2.0 (26-Nov-2011)
Slider Settings
	User	CPU
QB Acc	27	70
Pass Blk	0	0
WR Catch	45	45
Break Tkl	0	0
Run Blk	54	69
Fumble	28	28
Pass Rea	67	67
Ints	30	30
Pass Rush	30	30
Run Rea	70	70
Blk Shed	40	40
Tackles	40	40
FG Power	38
FG Acc	37
Punt Power	41
Punt Acc	32
KO Power	50

(31-Oct-2011) All-Pro Sliders
Slider Settings
	User	CPU
QB Acc	19	85
Pass Blk	19	19 (or 81)
WR Catch	45	45
Break Tkl	0	0
Run Blk	39	69
Fumble	28	28
Pass Reaction	15	56
Ints	40	40
Pass Rush	84	84
Run Reaction	40	58
Blk Shed	14	19
Tackles	21	26
FG Power	38
FG Acc	37
Punt Power	41
Punt Acc	32
KO Power	50
(31-Oct-2011) All-Madden Sliders
Slider Settings
	User	CPU
QB Acc	15	30
Pass Blk	0	0
WR Catch	45	45
Break Tkl	0	0
Run Blk	42	47
Fumble	23	23
Pass Reaction	15	15
Ints	40	40
Pass Rush	20	20
Run Reaction	40	40
Blk Shed	14	14
Tackles	21	21
FG Power	38
FG Acc	37
Punt Power	41
Punt Acc	32
KO Power	50

[Chedapalooza]

Isn't there a trucking rating which could be used for brk tackle?

Impact block included in pass block?

Strength maybe should be included in fumbles (stringer players fumble less)

Pass rush shouldn't include blk shed as there is a separate block shed slider..

These r all IMO..

[Chedapalooza]

What's ur reasoning for finding every team as well as the league average?

Mind u- I spent 3 hours on ONE team.. And achieve essnektally the same numbers (+ or - 1 to 2 clicks legit) as the other guy doing this by just using overalls.. So the overalls are basically giving us the same
Numbers as
Doing it this way :/

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chedapalooza

Isn't there a trucking rating which could be used for brk tackle? Impact block included in pass block? Strength maybe should be included in fumbles (stringer players fumble less) Pass rush shouldn't include blk shed as there is a separate block shed slider.. These r all IMO..

For Truck rating - I didn't know if that was for the move (i.e the R-stick move) or for running through/fighting for yards during contact. If it's the R-Stick move and success is determined by ELU then I think ELU is best - but if it does use TRK for actual break tackle success - no problem sticking it in there. Have you noticed either way? Good TRK backs doing better fighting for yards/shedding tackles without using the actual trucking move?

I think IBL is for run blocking only? Could be wrong...

I like the idea for including STR for Fumbles.

Good point with the BSH. I'll make that change too.


As for league average vs team-by-team, I think going team-by-team is having the sliders doing what the player ratings should be doing. I admit I have a "OOTP mindset" but in that game, you set the league averages, which determine the base success rates of players getting hits or striking out, etc, then the player's ratings take the probabilities from there to sim out results.

I'm thinking that if I can find a "league average slider set" that would then allow the individual player ratings to split off from and express/create production differences, there won't be a need to change team by team/game by game/injuries, etc. If my QB goes down, the backup has to use the slider compared to league average just like the starter did, so if I'm the Colts, I'm feeling the difference big time from Manning to Painter instead of adjusting my sliders because I don't have Manning.

And just like I don't change the league averages year by year, yet OOTP still generates realistic variations and stats both player and league-wide, I think if I achieve what I'm going for, I won't need to change due to drafts, player progression, etc.

So far, I've finished the User sliders for passing offense (though I took the average of starters on the OL for pass blocking and will do the same for run blocking - after all, if there's one position where going from starter to backup can kill you, other than QB, is OL - ask the Jets tonight) and am going to take a break for the night. For QBs I took all the QBs, for WR (and probably for LBs and CBs and S's, and HBs) I'll did the team average, then averaged that.

Took me...2 hr, 13 min and that's with typos and distracted by the Ravens playing. So about 50 min a slider - not terrible, and if I can streamline (by using calculator do averages and then sticking that on Excel...like duh), I might get faster.

Right now, I'm going to go 100 - [Weighted Result] for each slider and see how it goes. I think I'll do the same for CPU, except for QB Acc, which will get 100 - User. Might make the sliders difficult, but that might not be a bad thing, especially if the CPU can play largely on the same set.

If you're curious, I came out with 29 QB Acc, 19 Pass Blk, 39 WR Catch for the User. Right now, I'm probably setting CPU on 71 QB Acc, 19 Pass Blk, 39 WR Catch.

[Chedapalooza]

Ok. Elusiveness is for spins, jukes, avoiding contact at all costs. Truck is for taking contact and saying " f you " to the defender.. BOTH r separate ratings n need to ne combined for a total break tackle slider. Small backs sill use it onthr elusive end, big backs on trucking end.. None the less, they both need to be used in determining break tackle slider.

Edit: n everything else looks good imo

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chedapalooza

Ok. Elusiveness is for spins, jukes, avoiding contact at all costs. Truck is for taking contact and saying " f you " to the defender.. BOTH r separate ratings n need to ne combined for a total break tackle slider. Small backs sill use it onthr elusive end, big backs on trucking end.. None the less, they both need to be used in determining break tackle slider. Edit: n everything else looks good imo

Thanks. Made the change with Break Tackles. It's ELU/TRK + AWR now.

Speed is going to be annoying. I might just take the fastest player (I know that's DJax as he's the only one with 100 SPD) and whoever the slowest guy is, average, then do 100 - Average and set that as the threshold.

Slowest guy is like, what, 35 or something? So the average is likely around 65 or so, putting the threshold in the 30s, which sounds reasonable. It's going to be lower than 50 since there's no 0 speed player. Even if the lowest guy is a 20, that's 120 divided by 2 = average 60 = Thresh. 40

[Chedapalooza]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Thanks. Made the change with Break Tackles. It's ELU/TRK + AWR now. Speed is going to be annoying. I might just take the fastest player (I know that's DJax as he's the only one with 100 SPD) and whoever the slowest guy is, average, then do 100 - Average and set that as the threshold. Slowest guy is like, what, 35 or something? So the average is likely around 65 or so, putting the threshold in the 30s, which sounds reasonable. It's going to be lower than 50 since there's no 0 speed player. Even if the lowest guy is a 20, that's 120 divided by 2 = average 60 = Thresh. 40

That sounds food for thresh.. 50 isnt right, neither Is 0.. So 30s-40s def.. Whatever # u get...

I was thinking, for specials... Can the CPU operate from a low end? We see so many eradicate kicks, shank punts, etc.. It would offer more realism for the CPU nmore chsllegne for the human.. Idk what formula / ratings tho.. At the gym lol then have class later.. Won't be on til about 930-10 :/

[Chedapalooza]

Kick power maybe - strength + kpw
Kick acc- awr + kac

Pupwr- same but for punter
Punt acc- same but for punter

Kickoffs- same as kick power, maybe add awr and/ or acc...

Injury slider- take highest n lowest inj..

Fatigue- highest/lowest stamina... Set auto subs based off that #

Nice...

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chedapalooza

That sounds food for thresh.. 50 isnt right, neither Is 0.. So 30s-40s def.. Whatever # u get... I was thinking, for specials... Can the CPU operate from a low end? We see so many eradicate kicks, shank punts, etc.. It would offer more realism for the CPU nmore chsllegne for the human.. Idk what formula / ratings tho.. At the gym lol then have class later.. Won't be on til about 930-10 :/

Yeah, I was wondering about that too. It's so ridiculous they combined the special teams sliders (WHY, EA...WHY?!), so there's definitely some trading off to do...I'm trying to get a feel for it little by little. I haven't seen a missed field goal from the CPU in a while, and now I'm working my way down to 30 in FG Acc. Last I played was at 35, but there were no really difficult or intermediate FGs (the AI had one of 20-something yards, pretty simple to hit). Of course, I booted one from 59 with Janikowski - heh. He's fun to use


Injury and fatigue are another interesting area. They both play off each other (more fatigue = faster tiring players = more injury chance), and I see a LOT of players around 80+ in both. 20 Fatigue, 20 injury would be basically iron man players. 80 injury, 80 fatigue would be fragile, quickly tiring guys.

That said, maybe take 100 - Average for one, just the plain average for the other. Something like:

Injury 100 - Average
Fatigue: Average

So if the average for both is 80, Injury: 20, Fatigue: 80. For sub-in/out...Hmm...

In might be Average - 5 (don't want it too high or they might not come back at all after a while), Out maybe Average% of that. So going with 80 again:

Out: 60
In: 75

Use that for a lot of positions. QB/OL don't sub, typically, and CB/S rarely do. So some positional adjustments for realism are probably needed.

That would be interesting...

[KBLover]

Updated first post with the main 12 sliders.

Feel free to try them. Use whatever game speed you want (but please mention).

Also, if you mix and match the CPU sliders, please mention what you used, and if you used the USER catching at 69 or 31. I really don't know if 31 can work...but maybe it can.

Only ones I need to do are the S.T. sliders - will get to those later on I hope.