Why GP with Feedback Ruins Multiplayer Games

[bfindeisen]

I know many have posted about this before, but I don't think anyone has discussed the biggest issue with it. The problem isn't so much that the Hitter gets a bonus for guessing correctly (and vice versa), the problem is the way the Feedback is given on the guess. With the current default iteration being used, the hitter can use a combination of Guessing the pitch and the location to gain a significant advantage on the pitcher. Using this method often allows the hitter to determine roughly the pitch speed and location BEFORE THE PITCH IS THROWN. That is the key that no one is talking about. I don't think anyone would care that much if there wasn't any feedback pre-pitch that allowed the hitter to basically figure out what is coming. What you see now are people who will guess Down and Fastball on every single pitch; by doing this, they can instantly get a bonus if it is a fastball, OR if its a breaking pitch, they'll have that covered in the lower zone (Who throws breaking balls up in the zone??). It's a stupid exploit that is completely ruining online games. I just don't understand why it is so hard to understand that giving someone feedback pre-pitch is so anti-baseball. It's not in the spirit of the game.

[baseballsim]

I don't care for GP either but I think the guesser is penalized if they guess the wrong pitch so this brings down their hitting success a bit to some extent.

At my rating level, GP hasn't been much of an issue. I can't ever recall a situation where my opponent was ever able to drive a ball very far on a correctly guessed pitch.

As a pitcher, I can almost always get a free strike when I throw a fast ball in the dirt over the plate.

Quote: Originally Posted by bfindeisen

giving someone feedback pre-pitch is so anti-baseball.

Good point but GP is been around for so long I don't think they can dump it. Also, adding a GP option will make the matchup wait times too long.

[bfindeisen]

Quote: Originally Posted by baseballsim

I don't care for GP either but I think the guesser is penalized if they guess the wrong pitch so this brings down their hitting success a bit to some extent. At my rating level, GP hasn't been much of an issue. I can't ever recall a situation where my opponent was ever able to drive a ball very far on a correctly guessed pitch. As a pitcher, I can almost always get a free strike when I throw a fast ball in the dirt over the plate. Good point but GP is been around for so long I don't think they can dump it. Also, adding a GP option will make the matchup wait times too long.

Thanks for the response. The point I think you're not focusing on is the ability for the batter to determine what pitch is coming and where based on the GP. If you guess Fastball and Low every time, unless the pitcher throws a breaking ball up in the zone or completely out of the zone, the hitter almost always gets a bonus. If you get the pitch bonus, but not the zone bonus, and vice versa, they cancel each other out, but the hitter still knows basically what is coming and where. It's a huge exploit for anyone that realizes how to manipulate it. I'm currently ranked in the 500's, and it seems like 90% of the people I've been playing lately (mostly the DS Division) have been using some form of this to pre-determine the pitch.

I've been forced to use this to compete in some games. I've played very skilled players like you, and was able to adjust to the dirt balls quite easily. By manipulating GP, I could either get great contact or work walks by figuring out what he was gonna throw (basically).

[BrandH]

I don't use GP often, but I find it way to easy to pitch against GPers. I just looked at my game log and I have played 34 DD games online and I have given up more than 3 runs TWICE. I gave up 5 one game and 7 another and still won both. All of the games haven't been with GP on, but I would guess than 75% of them where since I wasn't playing much the last time GP was off. I know it isn't pure baseball, but from my experience it dosen't make the game unfair. It makes it easier.

[cardinalbird7]

It isn't baseball. I don't care what anyone says. I wouldn't mind having it with no feedback, but the way it is used online is not how it was intended on being used I can only assume. It slightly punishes you for guessing wrong, but you'll still know roughly the location and pitch type and you won't strikeout much if you are decent.

MVP had a fair way of implementing picking up pitches, albeit was not perfect, but it made sense and tied in with the gameplay pretty well and did not make hitting too easy.

I don't really play anymore, since I kind of lost that will to play. I am not sure if it is just the NBA finals, I got busier and played games less, GP being turned back on, or other games have grabbed my attention. I am not sure, but maybe it is a combination of everything.

[pokerplaya]

Quote: Originally Posted by cardinalbird7

It isn't baseball. I don't care what anyone says. I wouldn't mind having it with no feedback, but the way it is used online is not how it was intended on being used I can only assume. It slightly punishes you for guessing wrong, but you'll still know roughly the location and pitch type and you won't strikeout much if you are decent. MVP had a fair way of implementing picking up pitches, albeit was not perfect, but it made sense and tied in with the gameplay pretty well and did not make hitting too easy. I don't really play anymore, since I kind of lost that will to play. I am not sure if it is just the NBA finals, I got busier and played games less, GP being turned back on, or other games have grabbed my attention. I am not sure, but maybe it is a combination of everything.

I'm also an MVP veteran, and I had almost 100 games in for DD this year. I consider myself a quality player, though of course not on your level...

That being said, I've quit playing for the last 2-3 weeks myself and just dedicated myself to offline franchise play and looking for leagues (including joining HustlinOwl's Fictional Diamond Kings)... not necessarily because of guess pitch and more because of the horrible "win-awarding" system for plug-pullers and the like.

I played against GP'ers/non-GP'ers... my biggest problem is the plug-pullers, and I've given it some time and will probably return.

However, I would return to play, as I feel you probably will -- but I felt I must speak out in support of you and the others, that this is NOT baseball.

SCEA has lost a good chunk of change from me not playing, not that this should matter to you, but I felt I should bring it up in case devs read this. I know $20 here and $20 there isn't a ton in the grand scheme of things, but I spent probably $140 in real cash to get my "minor league" system started... and was LOVING it until I hit a rash of babies in the DS...

Yeah, I'm older than a lot of gamers at almost 34, but -- it should say something to SCEA that I was excited enough for this mode that I basically spent over 2 additional game purchases to "catch up" and try to be competitive in the mode, and was singing its praises to all that would listen. (Please review my post in the 13 DD Wishlist to see me and the lovefest it was initially!)

It should say a lot that I have $10M in budget, and 23 Platinum cards ready to enter, with an all platinum team fielded -- and won't even load the mode until I hear some fixes being made.

[bfindeisen]

Quote: Originally Posted by BrandH

I don't use GP often, but I find it way to easy to pitch against GPers. I just looked at my game log and I have played 34 DD games online and I have given up more than 3 runs TWICE. I gave up 5 one game and 7 another and still won both. All of the games haven't been with GP on, but I would guess than 75% of them where since I wasn't playing much the last time GP was off. I know it isn't pure baseball, but from my experience it dosen't make the game unfair. It makes it easier.

Not to take away from your experience, but I felt this way early on, too. However, in my experience, once you get ranked upwards of 1550, the skill level of the players rises significantly and it seem like most people I play have some plan or process in place they use to to "game the system" and abuse the GP mechanic to pre-determine pitch type and location.

[Mike Lowe]

It's so easy to manipulate GP. I've been ranked between 70-100 consistently and I get nervous when my cash drops below $300M.

I have well over half the cards collected as well and typically spend money training some, but mostly buying MLB packs. I have a "system" of cards that's deep as well.

GP doesn't bother me one bit...it just tells me early on that I have an easy win coming and to just stay within my game.

With that said, I do agree SCEA could implement it better, even if it was just to turn feedback off. That would eventually make for better players which is either good or bad depending on how you look at it haha

Sent from my Android device

[baseballsim]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

It's so easy to manipulate GP. I've been ranked between 70-100 consistently and I get nervous when my cash drops below $300M. I have well over half the cards collected as well and typically spend money training some, but mostly buying MLB packs. I have a "system" of cards that's deep as well. GP doesn't bother me one bit...it just tells me early on that I have an easy win coming and to just stay within my game. With that said, I do agree SCEA could implement it better, even if it was just to turn feedback off. That would eventually make for better players which is either good or bad depending on how you look at it haha Sent from my Android device

You have a 300M spending money? Thats impressive. I hardly ever have more than 4M in my budget. I feel I need to train my guys to the max in order to compete with those top teams.

GP doesn't really bother me either but I prefer no GP if i had a choice.