The grisly demise of Tresselball

[lonewolf371]

Quote: Originally Posted by jts20

Well that's just my opinion that alot of people would agree with. ND was over rated that year they made it to the Fiesta Bowl and tOSU killed them. And when they beat Texas in Austin was the year they had Wells, Troy Smith, Ginn and co. correct? That was also the year after VY left and Colt McCoy was starting as a freshman. It was a very senior OSU team against a Texas team in transition from the VY era.

Wells was a back-up; the starter was Antonio Pittman who I think was pretty good. Also, they had Anthony Gonzalez; Roy Hall (check his combine stats) was a 3rd string wide-out. The defense had Vernon Gholston, Quinn Pitcock, James Laurinitas, Malcolm Jenkins, etc. Looking back now, I'm a little puzzled at how that team got blown out by Florida, and same thing with LSU. tOSU was easily more talented than both of those squads, yet they pretty much got dominated in both title games.

[Psyblast]

Quote: Originally Posted by lonewolf371

Wells was a back-up; the starter was Antonio Pittman who I think was pretty good. Also, they had Anthony Gonzalez; Roy Hall (check his combine stats) was a 3rd string wide-out. The defense had Vernon Gholston, Quinn Pitcock, James Laurinitas, Malcolm Jenkins, etc. Looking back now, I'm a little puzzled at how that team got blown out by Florida, and same thing with LSU. tOSU was easily more talented than both of those squads, yet they pretty much got dominated in both title games.

No, they were not more talented. Don't care about Roy Hall's combine numbers, he was entirely average as a college receiver. Gholston was not good in 2006 and only better as a pass rusher in 2007. Laurinaitis was one of the most overrated players in recent memory, the media shoving him down the nation's throat was obscene. Jenkins was decent, but those OSU teams were not "more" talented than Florida or LSU. Florida's front seven tore Ohio State's offensive line to pieces. LSU's did much of the same, and their wideouts outclassed OSU's DBs by far.

[davin]

Quote: Originally Posted by lonewolf371

Wells was a back-up; the starter was Antonio Pittman who I think was pretty good. Also, they had Anthony Gonzalez; Roy Hall (check his combine stats) was a 3rd string wide-out. The defense had Vernon Gholston, Quinn Pitcock, James Laurinitas, Malcolm Jenkins, etc. Looking back now, I'm a little puzzled at how that team got blown out by Florida, and same thing with LSU. tOSU was easily more talented than both of those squads, yet they pretty much got dominated in both title games.

Hall was never an elite WR. Always a mismatch but never able to exploit it. Hall was that guy on your team who was a freak but for whatever reason never put it together on the field. Gonzo was not a #1 WR and once Ginn went down that showed. Pittman was legit. Gholston was good for rushing the passer in 07, but was not as good in 06. Laurinaitis made his reputation off of his early games, but so far this year I haven't really thought OSU has missed him. Jenkins was great, but in 06 still young and played half of 07 at safety in key situations, which was an exercise in failure as the other CBs weren't good enough. OSU was not easily more talented. Did they have some serious talent? Yes. But it wasn't at the OL and DL. Their failure to realize their weakness and gamplan against it cost them game after game, coupled with a team that was an emotional trainwreck after Ginn went down, is why this team lost big game after big game. Also, 2007 OSU was a team lead by a fragile QB with no strong senior leaders vs a more talented, senior laden team, playing at home. OSU was overmatched.

Anybody who watched that game Saturday though and thinks OSU is getting worse compared to a year or two ago is kidding themselves. I haven't seen an OSU team actually try anywhere near as hard, and haven't seen a Buckeye team with that kind of talent at DL since 2003. USC's offense was straight up confused and dominated by OSU much of the game. OSU was supposed to be blasted by USC in the trenches and OSU won that battle much of the game, and if a couple plays go the other way, OSU wins big. True Tressel has made some really dumb calls, but you can't fault Tressel entirely for that loss. If Pryor and this offense evolve, this team will be a serious threat to anyone.

[lonewolf371]

Quote: Originally Posted by davin

Hall was never an elite WR. Always a mismatch but never able to exploit it. Hall was that guy on your team who was a freak but for whatever reason never put it together on the field. Gonzo was not a #1 WR and once Ginn went down that showed. Pittman was legit. Gholston was good for rushing the passer in 07, but was not as good in 06. Laurinaitis made his reputation off of his early games, but so far this year I haven't really thought OSU has missed him. Jenkins was great, but in 06 still young and played half of 07 at safety in key situations, which was an exercise in failure as the other CBs weren't good enough. OSU was not easily more talented. Did they have some serious talent? Yes. But it wasn't at the OL and DL. Their failure to realize their weakness and gamplan against it cost them game after game, coupled with a team that was an emotional trainwreck after Ginn went down, is why this team lost big game after big game. Also, 2007 OSU was a team lead by a fragile QB with no strong senior leaders vs a more talented, senior laden team, playing at home. OSU was overmatched.

How was tOSU not more talented? Was Troy Smith better than Chris Leak? Yes. Were Beanie and Antonio better than the Florida RBs? Yes. The WRs and talent on defense were relatively even, except tOSU had the edge at linebacker. There's no way that Ohio State should have been blown out by as much as they were.

Against LSU there was an even bigger difference in overall talent, but Todd Boeckman vs. Matt Flynn tilted the field.

And don't kid yourself about Gonzalez. He was your third down guy; all Ginn could do was return punts and run fly routes at the time.

[Kriech23]

Quote: Originally Posted by lonewolf371

How was tOSU not more talented? Was Troy Smith better than Chris Leak? Yes. Were Beanie and Antonio better than the Florida RBs? Yes. The WRs and talent on defense were relatively even, except tOSU had the edge at linebacker. There's no way that Ohio State should have been blown out by as much as they were. Against LSU there was an even bigger difference in overall talent, but Todd Boeckman vs. Matt Flynn tilted the field. And don't kid yourself about Gonzalez. He was your third down guy; all Ginn could do was return punts and run fly routes at the time.

Ohio St. laid a huge egg against Florida. I'll admit it. They flat out outplayed us. We were the more talented team I believe but that doesn't mean anything, as that game showed why.

The LSU game gets tricky. LSU wasn't as bad as everybody made them out to be. Yes, Ohio State still probably should of beat them. LSU had 2 losses which makes them look worse than what they really were.

Your right on with the bolded part. Gonzo wasn't so much a factor except on third down and inside the redzone. On those downs he was money. Ginn was a great returner and speedster but was never a real #1 receiver.

[davin]

Quote: Originally Posted by lonewolf371

How was tOSU not more talented? Was Troy Smith better than Chris Leak? Yes. Were Beanie and Antonio better than the Florida RBs? Yes. The WRs and talent on defense were relatively even, except tOSU had the edge at linebacker. There's no way that Ohio State should have been blown out by as much as they were. Against LSU there was an even bigger difference in overall talent, but Todd Boeckman vs. Matt Flynn tilted the field. And don't kid yourself about Gonzalez. He was your third down guy; all Ginn could do was return punts and run fly routes at the time.

OSU had talent, sure. My point was, they were not easily more talented than both teams their respective years. Gonzo was great as a possession guy, but the reason he was open was you had to watch Ginn every play. Ginn was the deep threat, the guy who could hurt you every play. He could hurt you on a return, he could hurt you on a screen, on a slant, on a fly. If that guy caught the ball in space, look out. If you wanted to beat OSU, you had to take him out of the game, had to double cover him or do something. Robiskie was a bigger threat than Hall.

I guess I don't see the argument for the 2007 team. OSU did not clearly outclass LSU in any sort of way that would make that gap appear. Did OSU have some great players, oh yes. But it wasnt to where the talent gap was huge, LSU had some really great players too.

Should OSU have been blown out? Not at all, in either game. Florida was a debacle, lose a huge key to your offense and try to win a national title. Especially with a defense that is getting shredded left and right, using a scheme designed to kill them...

Should LSU have blown out OSU? I don't consider that game a blowout. OSU killed themselves with dumb penalties and missed opportunities on offense and special teams. LSU was the better team, but OSU had moments to shine and messed them up. Same stupid defensive gameplan put the game out of reach.

Basically: OSU was not easily more talented, they had a couple of advantages but either did not put their talent into positions to win, messed up those chances, or faced a unit that was better. Now put 06 OSU vs 07 LSU and I think we have a different ballgame there, but 07 OSU was just not national title caliber.

[Cebby]

Quote: Originally Posted by lonewolf371

How was tOSU not more talented? Was Troy Smith better than Chris Leak? Yes. Were Beanie and Antonio better than the Florida RBs? Yes. The WRs and talent on defense were relatively even, except tOSU had the edge at linebacker. There's no way that Ohio State should have been blown out by as much as they were.

OSU had an edge at RB and a slight edge at QB.

However Florida had 3 WRs better than anyone OSU had aside from Ginn, and an advantage everywhere on defense, especially on the line and the DBs.

Quote:

Against LSU there was an even bigger difference in overall talent, but Todd Boeckman vs. Matt Flynn tilted the field.

Again, you are WAY overrating your defense.

Aside from maybe (and it's a big maybe) Lauren and Jennings, I'll take the LSU defenders. The only position OSU had an advantage on defense was running back, and for what LSU used their backs for, it wasn't a huge advantage.

[bkrich83]

This is where OSU is. In a game where they (USC) bring 9 new starters on defense, a freshman QB in to the Shoe, on a night where USC does not play very well at all, OSU still loses to the Trojans at home.

If OSU wasn't going to beat USC the other night, they'll never beat USC.

[J0nnD0ugh]

I don't get how Tressel ball suffered a demise. His offense has always been bland, boring, uninspired, mediocre, dull, pedestrian, plodding, uninspiring, vanilla.......

Its been what its always been. If you play a rope-a-dope style & never put the pressure on, you're going to risk being out-pointed. Or worse, recieve a punch across the jaw you can't shake off.

[Olson-for-Heisman]

Quote: Originally Posted by J0nnD0ugh

I don't get how Tressel ball suffered a demise. His offense has always been bland, boring, uninspired, mediocre, dull, pedestrian, plodding, uninspiring, vanilla....... Its been what its always been. If you play a rope-a-dope style & never put the pressure on, you're going to risk being out-pointed.

Replace one name and you'd exactly describe the offensive system/mentality of a certain coach at a prestigious basketball school.