Mayweather vs. Cotto

[marq]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

I know that this is all hypothetical but 5 rounds? Come on man. What about Floyd's chin makes you think anyone would take him out in 5.

Objectivity a lost art in message board sports debates. Personal feelings tend to cloud any reasonable discussion.

IMO, Hearns would definitely give Floyd problems because of his reach. However, Hearns wasn't great defensively, had a very suspect chin, and little balance. Emmanuel Steward has often said Hearns' lack of balance was the difference between he and Leonard/Hagler (George Kimball's "Four Kings"). Duran may be "Hands of Stone" but what does it matter if he couldn't land many punches? Out of the three, Leonard had the best chance (skill set wise) to beat Floyd. He had the speed, great balance, power, and elusiveness to cause a lot of trouble for Floyd. Besides, Judges LOVED him.

[JayBee74]

Quote: Originally Posted by marq

Objectivity a lost art in message board sports debates. Personal feelings tend to cloud any reasonable discussion.

Yeah, real unreasonable to think the Hitman could KO Floyd in 5 rounds. I think he'd fairly easily dispatch PacMan too. The most powerful welterweight ever, with unfair reach and height dimensions, great jab and great hand speed. Ray had to fight the fight of his life to beat Tommy, who got caught in round 6 and then outboxed SUGAR RAY LEONARD for several round before wilting late.

If Sugar Ray Leonard did not exist Tommy would have gone down as the greatest welterweight ever.

[marq]

Quote: Originally Posted by JayBee74

Yeah, real unreasonable to think the Hitman could KO Floyd in 5 rounds. I think he'd fairly easily dispatch PacMan too. The most powerful welterweight ever, with unfair reach and height dimensions, great jab and great hand speed. Ray had to fight the fight of his life to beat Tommy, who got caught in round 6 and then outboxed SUGAR RAY LEONARD for several round before wilting late. If Sugar Ray Leonard did not exist Tommy would have gone down as the greatest welterweight ever.

The issue here is that assumptions are being made that have very little evidence to back up. Hearns is of course an all-time great. A few problems here: Floyd doesn't get hit and rarely takes a clean shot, Hearns' lack of balance against a technical marvel like Floyd doesn't bode well for your assumption that Floyd would be KO'd early, yes Hearns outboxed Leonard for a portion of the fight but he ran out of gas and was ROCKED leading to his TKO. We know Floyd doesn't get tired, doesn't get hit, and he is deadly accurate...
all of those are the very reasons Hearns faced defeat throughout his career. So then, how would you or could you assume that he would shake all of those issues against a guy who, in his prime, mastered all of those skills? That's what I meant by objectivity.

We've got guys in here, I think you included, who say Duran would run through Floyd when we've seen his struggles against slick boxers in his career. That seems to stem from personal dislike rather than objective evaluation of skills. IMO, of course

[JayBee74]

Quote: Originally Posted by marq

The issue here is that assumptions are being made that have very little evidence to back up.

The most powerful welterweight ever, with unfair reach and height dimensions, great jab and great hand speed.

That's not good enough to be submitted into evidence? ^^^^^^

Your argument is that Floyd is a "technical marvel" who doesn't get tired and that Hearn's has "balance issues".
My argument is that Floyd wouldn't have time to get tired.

Remember we are talking about Tommy as a welterweight, a guy that is arguably the greatest "pound for pound" puncher of ALL TIME.

Just tell me how Floyd wins this fight? He's going to get through Tommy's jab? He's going to be aggressive against this monster puncher? Does he have the heart, skill and power (yeah, Sugar hit harder!!) to gut it out like Leonard did? NO HE AIN'T.

Give me a break-if I don't agree with you I'm not being objective!!! LOL

Hearns, 6'1", 78" reach, Mayweather, 5'8", 72" reach

[marq]

Quote: Originally Posted by JayBee74

The most powerful welterweight ever, with unfair reach and height dimensions, great jab and great hand speed. That's not good enough to be submitted into evidence? ^^^^^^ Your argument is that Floyd is a "technical marvel" who doesn't get tired and that Hearn's has "balance issues". My argument is that Floyd wouldn't have time to get tired. Remember we are talking about Tommy as a welterweight, a guy that is arguably the greatest "pound for pound" puncher of ALL TIME. Just tell me how Floyd wins this fight? He's going to get through Tommy's jab? He's going to be aggressive against this monster puncher? Does he have the heart, skill and power (yeah, Sugar hit harder!!) to gut it out like Leonard did? NO HE AIN'T. Give me a break-if I don't agree with you I'm not being objective!!! LOL Hearns, 6'1", 78" reach, Mayweather, 5'8", 72" reach

No, I don't think you are being objective because you are saying a boxer who has never been knocked down by a punch officially as a professional, and who rarely gets hit, would be KOed in 5. Leonard was able to withstand Hearns' power for 14 rounds as a welterweight and wasn't knocked down. As far as heart is concerned, Floyd beat Carlos Hernandez with a broken hand in a title fight, the Castillo battles, etc.

If you think Hearns would win, that's cool, but given the history, footage, and knowledge of the two,etc., it just doesn't seem reasonable to predict a 5th round knockout. But whatever

[Complex]

The connect % against Floyd is something like 16%. That is bonkers.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by JayBee74

The most powerful welterweight ever, with unfair reach and height dimensions, great jab and great hand speed. That's not good enough to be submitted into evidence? ^^^^^^ Your argument is that Floyd is a "technical marvel" who doesn't get tired and that Hearn's has "balance issues". My argument is that Floyd wouldn't have time to get tired. Remember we are talking about Tommy as a welterweight, a guy that is arguably the greatest "pound for pound" puncher of ALL TIME. Just tell me how Floyd wins this fight? He's going to get through Tommy's jab? He's going to be aggressive against this monster puncher? Does he have the heart, skill and power (yeah, Sugar hit harder!!) to gut it out like Leonard did? NO HE AIN'T. Give me a break-if I don't agree with you I'm not being objective!!! LOL Hearns, 6'1", 78" reach, Mayweather, 5'8", 72" reach

Thats fine. Can I submit into evidence that Floyd is perhaps the greatest defensive welterweight of all time?

[Complex]

Quote: Originally Posted by JayBee74

The most powerful welterweight ever, with unfair reach and height dimensions, great jab and great hand speed. That's not good enough to be submitted into evidence? ^^^^^^ Your argument is that Floyd is a "technical marvel" who doesn't get tired and that Hearn's has "balance issues". My argument is that Floyd wouldn't have time to get tired. Remember we are talking about Tommy as a welterweight, a guy that is arguably the greatest "pound for pound" puncher of ALL TIME. Just tell me how Floyd wins this fight? He's going to get through Tommy's jab? He's going to be aggressive against this monster puncher? Does he have the heart, skill and power (yeah, Sugar hit harder!!) to gut it out like Leonard did? NO HE AIN'T. Give me a break-if I don't agree with you I'm not being objective!!! LOL Hearns, 6'1", 78" reach, Mayweather, 5'8", 72" reach

You are not being objective. Reach Matters in the case of technical masters, as Hearns was not one. He gave up his reach advantage at times because he had good power.

[JayBee74]

I'm glad you guys are being objective to make up for me not being objective-at least we have a balance.

I'm sure when Floyd looks across the ring at Tommy's 5 inch height advantage and 6 inch reach advantage, knowing that he could have his head taken off with one booming shot, he's saying, "Damn, I'm sure glad I'm a technical master, and this,....whatshisname...Tommy Hearns isn't!"

[King_B_Mack]

Quote: Originally Posted by JayBee74

I'm glad you guys are being objective to make up for me not being objective-at least we have a balance. I'm sure when Floyd looks across the ring at Tommy's 5 inch height advantage and 6 inch reach advantage, knowing that he could have his head taken off with one booming shot, he's saying, "Damn, I'm sure glad I'm a technical master, and this,....whatshisname...Tommy Hearns isn't!"

Well he sure as hell isn't thinking "welp, I'm getting knocked out tonight. Just gotta figure out how to make sure it happens after the fifth round."