Please get rid of the rating caps of weight classes

[Krucialist]

They are crippling fighters and not giving them their due respect. I understand why they were done and they have a reason for being there. But seriously, you can't take away a fighter's strength just because of their weight class.

What I mean is someone like Manny Pacquiao has at most a 55 hand power. He should have power in the 80s because that is what he has. He has the ability to get you out of there with a few well placed punches. 55 is the punching power of someone like cory spinks or paulie malignaggi.

I know they countered the cap on power with a cap on toughness but that doesnt make sense either. Marvin Hagler has a 72 head toughness which ties him with Roy Jones Jr. Are we going to actually say that Roy takes punches as well as Marvelous?

We need a better way of translating size differences than just capping weight classes. I scoff at the notion that cory spinks and sergio mora punch as hard as Kermit Cintron just because they are a weight class heigher.

[JayBee74]

Quote: Originally Posted by Krucialist

They are crippling fighters and not giving them their due respect. I understand why they were done and they have a reason for being there. But seriously, you can't take away a fighter's strength just because of their weight class. What I mean is someone like Manny Pacquiao has at most a 55 hand power. He should have power in the 80s because that is what he has. He has the ability to get you out of there with a few well placed punches. 55 is the punching power of someone like cory spinks or paulie malignaggi. I know they countered the cap on power with a cap on toughness but that doesnt make sense either. Marvin Hagler has a 72 head toughness which ties him with Roy Jones Jr. Are we going to actually say that Roy takes punches as well as Marvelous? We need a better way of translating size differences than just capping weight classes. I scoff at the notion that cory spinks and sergio mora punch as hard as Kermit Cintron just because they are a weight class heigher.

You're right.

[Krucialist]

Man I wanna be Kermit so bad but everytime I get ready to pick him I just think of his punching power and I realize it would be a waste of time. Might as well pick Mosely who is apparently stronger....

[IStillDoWhatIDo]

The weight class scales are scaled correctly. it takes a wholistic approach. where they do not excell in power it can be made up in quickness or speed. stop being obsessed with numbers and focus on the product.

[Krucialist]

Quote: Originally Posted by IStillDoWhatIDo

The weight class scales are scaled correctly. it takes a wholistic approach. where they do not excell in power it can be made up in quickness or speed. stop being obsessed with numbers and focus on the product.

So Roy Jones having the same head toughness as Marvelous Marvin Hagler is scaled correctly?

Im not saying that what they were going for was wrong but I am saying that their approach is lacking.

If you use modifiers on the ratings to factor in weight and height then you dont need to just cap ratings. A hard punch from a 147 lber is not the same thing as a hard punch from a 225 lber. I know this but apparently the game doesn't and so we have the ratings caps. Its not even like you can have welters fighting heavys anyways so why cant all classes have their ratings judged on the 100 point scale they have set up?

Back to Cintron. The man's game may be lacking in some areas but punching power just isnt one of those areas. He bombs on dudes and gets them out of there. You can say he doesnt like to take punches and his body toughness is questionable but you cant say that he wont sit fighters down if he gets some good clean shots in there. As of right now, I feel no difference fighting with him than any other welterweight except that his stamina is questionable, head movement is iffy, and not the best hand speed. All of which would be acceptable if I knew that I dont have to hit you with many clean punches because he throws bombs. Unfortunately, he throws a very middle-of-the-pack punch to go along with his middle-of-the-pack everything else.

[taiketsu]

Please don't. The ratings are correct. I just can't see how Pacman's punches can compare to, say, George Foreman.

If you don't believe me, ask a 130lb athlete to punch you, and then have a 200lb athlete do the same. I would wager the latter will hurt much much more.

[parker002]

Quote: Originally Posted by taiketsu

Please don't. The ratings are correct. I just can't see how Pacman's punches can compare to, say, George Foreman. If you don't believe me, ask a 130lb athlete to punch you, and then have a 200lb athlete do the same. I would wager the latter will hurt much much more.

The problem is that by using a single, unified scale for all weight classes, the only way to accurately portray the real world situation you described is to put in ratings caps for each weight class, just like they did.

But that limits how much VARIETY you can have within each weight class. The ratings may be correct when you compare one class to another, but the ratings when comparing two fighters within the SAME class aren't always accurate. Kermit Cintron is a perfect example.

The logical way to fix it would be to add a class modifier. Use a percentile system to rate the fighters and then add a multiplier for each weight class. That would give you the most variety within each class while still preserving the accurate representation of the different weight classes.

[Krucialist]

Quote: Originally Posted by taiketsu

Please don't. The ratings are correct. I just can't see how Pacman's punches can compare to, say, George Foreman. If you don't believe me, ask a 130lb athlete to punch you, and then have a 200lb athlete do the same. I would wager the latter will hurt much much more.

Either this person didnt read my post or missed my point.

I am well aware Manny doesnt punch like Foreman. My point is that the cap is limiting his punching power to a dumb level because they didnt bother to factor in another modifier on punch power. Weight would make the most sense here and I cant believe that it would be that hard to set that up.

I would ideally like to see height and weight factored into power and toughness. People wouldnt be so ready to make these long armed, scrawny, 210 lbs 6'8 fighters if they crumpled from body shots the way they are supposed to.

[Krucialist]

Quote: Originally Posted by parker002

But that limits how much VARIETY you can have within each weight class. The ratings may be correct when you compare one class to another, but the ratings when comparing two fighters within the SAME class aren't always accurate. Kermit Cintron is a perfect example.

Kermit Cintron punches harder than Cory Spinks. Period.

Not getting on you, just pointing out that the bolded statement doesnt even always hold true.

Also, Roy Jones cannot take a punch as well as Haglar.

[parker002]

Quote: Originally Posted by Krucialist

Kermit Cintron punches harder than Cory Spinks. Period. Not getting on you, just pointing out that the bolded statement doesnt even always hold true. Also, Roy Jones cannot take a punch as well as Haglar.

You're trying to compare two individual fighters. You simply can't do that. The statement of mine that you highlighted in bold was a generalization on weight classes, not a comparison of individual fighters. Furthermore, Cory Spinks and Kermit Cintron have both fought the majority of their fights between 145 and 155, so I obviously wasn't talking about them.

I ABSOLUTELY agree with you, so let's get that out up front.

If you want Kermit Cintron to punch harder than someone legitimately a weight class above him, a multiplier is how to do it.

Let's assume Cintron is a welterweight at 147. If he has 95 punching power and welterweight carries a 1x modifier, his punching power is 95. The 160 lb. middleweight class carries a modifier of 1.1x. Therefore, a 160 lb. middleweight with 85 punching power would be about equal to Cintron in punching power (85 * 1.1 = 93.5) but a middleweight with 75 punching power would be significantly weaker (82.5).

However, if you then go up to heavyweight, it would carry a 1.3x modifier. So, a heavyweight with just 75 punching power would punch with an equal strength to Cintron (75 * 1.3 = 97.5).

This allows for an accurate portrayal of power not only between the weight classes, as it is now, but also WITHIN the weight classes, which is what you want.