APF Players' Response to Madden 10 News

[Fox1994]

New Question 1: 7/10; They've really doen a good job hyping this game, I'm just jaded about the way things have been. It looks phenomenally better than NCAA 10. Don't know if it will be, but they undoubtedly have a better hype/PR team than NCAA. NCAA's adverts make it seem like they don't care about all the stuff we've asked for. Not to mention the roster thing. I know I'm going off on a tangent, but just comparing those two, I can't see why anyone would even consider buying NCAA 10.

New Question 2: The newest videos make it look like a much better game than last year, though it's still not quite perfect. The secondary looks to be playing better, the running game looks nicer. Aside from the major presentation overhall, it just looks like they've improved the game. The injury system looks great and the blocking for running and passing looks much improved.

[baa7]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fox1994

New Question 2: The newest videos make it look like a much better game than last year

I honestly don't know what it is people are seeing with these vids. The game looks identical to Madden name-any-other-version-the-past-several-years. At the very least, the animations in APF are still light years ahead. And we all know the gameplay in Madden wasn't even close, so how could it possibly be so much better, given they're still using that same Madden game engine?

[sb24]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Autumn Wind

--Where's your hype meter at with Madden 10 at present? --What have the latest run of vids suggested to you about what's changed and what's stayed the same on the field and in terms of core game play?

Well i dont have any faith in madden. That being said, i will play 10 to ensure i know whats its about. Nothing worse than trashing a game that you admit to never playing.

I dont watch the videos. Based on responses to the videos, im concerned. Now to be honest, i dont go to the madden forums anymore at all. The fanboys and anti-ea guys are so heavy, you cant find the good info.

I will give it a try but not a buy.

[spankdatazz22]

Glad you bumped the thread. Was wondering why I have this huge disconnect with Madden compared to the joy some appear to be feeling with it's impending release. My thoughts:

Quote: Originally Posted by The Autumn Wind

--Where's your hype meter at with Madden 10 at present?

I'm interested in trying it out. That said there isn't anything that's been announced that I look at and say "that's impressive". And it's disheartening to see people gushing appreciation for things being implemented (or should say attempted to be implemented) that were done by older games awhile ago. That and the dev team breaking their arms patting themselves on the back - really for accomplishing nothing I'd qualify as praise-worthy, or at least worth "taking a bow", as they seem to be doing a lot of - also is kind of grating. Unfortunately they can do it given the situation they've put themselves in.

They do seem to have done a good job with the variety of cutscenes in the game, even though I think they should've had the vision to implement realtime presentation. Or something that's innovative in it's own right. For things like tackling and cutscenes, it seems like they looked at 2K5 and said "let's do more of that". I'm sure Visual Concepts would've likely tried implementing something newer rather than simply giving more of what they had 5yrs ago. And sad to see some saying the game will be worthy of a 9+ rating then out of the other side of their mouths say "they're implementing [whatever] next year". Ridiculous.

Quote: Originally Posted by The Autumn Wind

--What have the latest run of vids suggested to you about what's changed and what's stayed the same on the field and in terms of core game play?

The most impressive thing I saw was the change they made to the pass rush - after Ian complained that OS was being too harsh on the E3 videos. Still are obvious issues with the DE play and the lack of OL doubleteams, but the practice videos he released showed much improvement. But the pass rush doesn't seem anywhere near as pronounced in the subsequent gameplay videos they've released with the changes. One had the Titans in it (I think versus Oakland) and the other was the recent Online Franchise video, which also didn't impress (OL/DL play and overall).

The hype vids have been alarmingly bad imo. Poor physics, stiff animations/movement, etc. really stand out in all of them. Players seem to have zero distinction between them; no personality. The defense still seems to exist mostly as a prop; I never get the feel that a Ray Lewis is on the field. Or a Troy Polamalu. Or a Demarcus Ware. One thing APF did a fairly good job at was making some of the players seem distinctive; it was easy to tell a Jerry Rice from a James Lofton from a Rocket Ismail - not just because of the uniform or number on their back. Same w/other players at other positions. It was no where near perfect, but for a 1st year effort it was very good.

To me individuality is something that's stayed the same from Madden '09 to Madden '10. I think the QBs will have some sense of distinctive behavior because they have unique throwing anims. But lacking signature drops, unique running styles, etc. makes them seem more cookie cutter than they should be this far into next gen. Overall I think the game will be an improvement over '09, but it'll be more along the lines of the previous year's versions from one season to the next rather than some redefining moment/reimagining of the game that some want to make it out to be. It's not a MVP-like makeover - they're building on what came before it. The best thing I think I'll be able to say about it is it'll be better than '09; the worst that it's still disappointing (so far)

[DocHolliday]

I think it looks better, but the engine is flawed and all the window dressing in the world wont make up for it.

The game will be praised by the first people that get it, hyping up the community. Then the first few days of public release will have very nice things to say.

Then it will all fall apart and the glaring issues that are always in Madden will resurface....Stale gameplay, everyone seems the same, etc.

After that Major bugs will pop up out of gameplay in drafts, free agency and trades that will make us shake our heads.

Finally there will be MAJOR issues with online franchise that will render the mode almost impossible to play with a full league.


In the end we will come back here and play some season of online APF leagues and have fun.


That's my call. Mark it.

[elgreazy1]

As hyped as I was to finally be able to get a new game of football, I'm starting to step away from purchasing Madden for yet another year. Don't get me wrong, I think the devs are doing a fine job in getting the game where it SHOULD HAVE BEEN many years back, but as stated by many people, the game engine is still majorly flawed. And as stated in the post above, there WILL be countless game-breaking bugs, glitches, exploits, etc that will surface within a month (heck, maybe even days) upon the release.

I'll just rent it, sit back and probably buy it (used) down the line if it turns out okay and/or when the necessary patches are implemented.

[s38s38s]

I look at it like this do I still own and play 2K5, as well as 2K8, but I've gotten to a point to where it isn't even fun to play either of those games reguardless of how good they are. Something alot of 2K followers forget are there are flaws this game has that Madden doesn't and Madden has flaws that 2K doesn't. Kepp in mind I know as much about this game as the next guy....


2K-Pros/Cons

Pros-

Animations/Player Momentum

Customization (Playbooks/Organization)

Online Community for the most part

Presentation to date

Ratings System(Even though its not perfect it works well enough)

Timing exists in the passing game sort of

Good Pass Rush

Audible/Defensive Assignments pre-snap/Defensive Matchups

Cons-

92% of the Generics
One route can beat any zone (corner route)

DB's live in la la land themajority of the time(Played a game vs ICETHOR, all he did was drop back launch it as far as possible and got either a catch or Def Pass Int call 6+ times, I don't care what the excuse is thats broken)

No zone guards outs/drags to wide side of field

Only man defense that works is bump (on top of that people complain about a DEF that works decently)

Deep Post/Corner or Double Cross is almost guaranteed money even when the appropriate defense is called

D-Lineman/LB's walking down Speed WR's and HB's (I don't mean being close to or having the angle, I mean out of the play then all of a sudden WTF)

No real speed to the game, it's sooo slow

Several Money Plays (Fades,Corners,Deep Corners,Deep Outs etc)

Focus Bug, yes it exists and can kill zone coverages because it activates randomly

Lack of Int's on throws directly at DB's/LB's/S's

Blitz plays are broken (re-assigning blitzes help at times)

Madden 09 Pros/Cons

Pros-

Most noticably the Graphics

DB's hold their assignments in zone consistently/and Int bad passes more consistently (as in they play where assigned they don't always make the play which is fine but no focus issues here)

I like the defensive pre-snap menu idea (but its a little time consuming, I prefer APF's)

Speed to the ball on passes and runs

Blitzes actually work

Team Specific Playbooks/Styles (though they lack depth)

WR Screen passes

The sim community (maddensimplayers.com)

The fact that the only real cheese is not punting when applicable(what I don't have to restrict playcalling b/c of a broken defense)

Speed matters (though to many players are faster than they should be)

Don't have to wonder will this play make this guy think I'm not SIM, will I get neg feedback

Cons-

Online lag in the menus

Most of the online Community

Lack of Animations/Momentum

Lack of Customization in Playbooks

Presentation

The original glitches (which were all patched to my knowledge)

The avg age of the gamers (I estimate is pretty young and immature...see Maddenation)

Over-whelming amount of "Tourney" style players

No legit feedback sstem

No D-Line pass rush (guys just running all around)

Granted those only name a few, but when it comes to the year 2009, the 2010 season for gaming I think I've gotten all there is to be had from the 2K titles outside of "one for old times sake" so I'll be moving on, because to me when playing a SIM player in Madden I actually enjoy the game because to me APF is just too damn easy.

[sportyguyfl31]

I have a strict ignore until I play policy with EA games forthe most part. NCAA is playing well, and The Madden team usually has more resources to play with, so that is positive sign.

[sportyguyfl31]

There is one major thing that NCAA/Madden has over APF.

If I want to play a Tampa 2 scheme...my LB's and DB's will take the drops that they are supposed to take, every single time, and my opponent will have to SHOW ME, that he can break down that defense, in order to get me out of it.

The game doesnt bail him out with the focus bug, or a ridiculous animation or non responsivness of your defender.

on the flip side, EA has some gimmick defenses, and hyper blitzes that work in situations where they should not: 1-5-5 prowl vs goalline offense for example.

Although legend DL's do not man handle generic OL's 1 on 1 near enough in APF...the interaction along the LOS is far far superior.

On the other hand, the classic MLB position, in APF is essentially uselss, if not user controled. I never feel like LB's are reading keys, and reacting. Often time's the simply stare and watch what is happening around them. In Madden/NCAA, the LB's attack the LOS much better.

One of the things I like about APF the most, is that the game has personality. To this day, I'm still seeing plays Ive run a million times, play out in different ways, and I see things I havent seen before in the game.

Players feel different. Chris Spielman is effective between the guards, but feels blocky when he has to move laterally, or change direction. Nick Bouniconti is super responsive, and can flow sideline to sideline, but doesnt hold the point of attack well.

In Madden, Ray Lewis, is Brian Urlacher, Is Patrick Willis. They are the same guy, for all practical purposes.

In APF, certain players can play well in a 4-3, and absolutely suck in the 3-4, and vice versa.

In Madden/NCAA, I can run any type of scheme..with any personnel. I can run the Pats defensive playbook with the New York Giants, with pretty much the same overall results.

Both are good at different things, and bad at different things

[Djwlfpack]

I've decided to stay with the PS2 09 versions of both Madden and NCAA this year. I think Madden 10 is taking steps in the right direction, but I don't think it's at a "must-buy" point yet.