APF Players' Response to Madden 10 News

[teambayern]

1) Do you think APF will remain relevant after Madden drops; i.e. will it still get serious gaming time from you.
In a word, yes. Part of the reason is that I've gotten used to 2k football, and when the two games do things differently in areas reasonable people can disagree, I prefer the 2k style. These would be things like having to tap the button to speed burst, taller player models, the visual style of the playbook. The other part is that I still think this game is a huge work in progress. I'm still seeing random hiccups like the defense breaking on sweeps before the running back has taken a step, QB's dancing around the pocket like they're figure skaters, and stiff non-locomotive animations. I don't care about ANY of these things on their own to put me off this game, but I fear that if they pile up enough, the chess match won't take place. And without the chess match, it's boring, and APF slides back into my system.

2. What have you seen from Madden 10 that makes you say "they moved the sport forward" just like you saw APF and said "they moved 2k5 forward"?
There are a ton of things I could put on this list, but none of them have reached their potential yet. Pro Tak is awesome, but there are still many tackles and interactions that feel very soft (it's like the tackler is helping the ball-carrier slowly fall to the ground or like he's trying to give him a hug rather than a hit). The DB interaction is a great innovation that could finally best the coverage in APF, but in the videos I've seen it hasn't had the impact I expected. The AI looks much smarter, but it still seems slanted unrealistically to the offense.

Then there are things that look amazing right now, like the injury system, the graphics, the parts of online franchise that work, and the presentation.

3) What still seems to stand out about APF from the evidence we have so far about Madden?

The smoothness of the animations, the weight and locomotion of the players, the believable randomness of player performance on a given play, and the depth in terms of incorporating intangibles seamlessly into the more obvious benefits of a given player.

More than anything else though, the individuation of the players. It's easier with fewer players to worry about, but each APF guy has his own strengths and weaknesses, his own sets of animations, and his own feel. Madden sorely lacks this for me, and I'm not seeing that changing this year.

4) Are you planning on spending serious time with Madden 10?

Yes. I desperately want to love this game. I want this league to take off. I don't want to have to play APF for football. But that said, other than fulfilling my obligations to this league, if it's the same old madden, I'm not going to keep on eating without glacing down at my plate.

5) This one is purely for self-interest: how many would be interested in an online franchise with APF players--in other words, playing online in Madden with guys who play APF whom we know are real football-heads?

This is where Madden could shine for me. If we don't exploit the random Madden bugs, and bring the studied laid back approach of the APF community to this league, I will be having a blast. I'm already signed up as my Ravens, so get ready to see what the non-CAP ray ray can do!

[tazdevil20]

After having every madden up to 2001, The last 7 years haven't impressed me much. Mostly because I discovered 2k football in 2002. Ever since then I was sold. I used to refer to Madden as the kiddy game. It seemed to me that Madden players just wanted to play against the cpu, set the price of their hot dogs and run up the score against a predictable and easy to beat AI. However, this year I actually think this Madden game has the potential to be great. 2k5 was the best football game ever made and 2k8 s a fantastic non-NFL alternative. It wasn't just the gameplay that made them great, it's the fact that you need to understand real football to play them. I'm all about the chess match, not the ability to move the hit stick better. I'm not biased towards any one publisher. I will admit that I was angry for quite some time about EA taking the license because all of the current gen maddens have been absolute ****. I think this new team gets it though, and they are creating something that we will all enjoy. I see a lot of people on here having a negative attitude towards madden (understandably) because of years past, but this one def does look better. I agree the animations need work, but they aren't as bad as some say. APF has similar issues in some areas. The jumping interceptions by LBs really can kill it for me, along with a crappy passing engine. The poor passing system in Madden has made it completely unplayable in previous years so I am hoping it's now been fixed. Although not perfect, it certainly looks much better. Online franchise is something I have been waiting for for years and years. I'm pretty excited about that and I have a good group of guys who I used to play 2k5 leagues with all in our 30s.

[TombSong]

1) Do you think APF will remain relevant after Madden drops; i.e. will it still get serious gaming time from you.

It will get some time but not like it used to. Not because of Madden per se, but because of all the other games I want to play and the ones I have that I want to finish.



2) What have you seen from Madden 10 that makes you say "they moved the sport forward" just like you saw APF and said "they moved 2k5 forward"?

Right now looking at the current vids, madden has done nothing to move the sport forward. Pro Tak is an advancement of an existing feature that we have in Ap2K8 and Gang tackling still looks better
in Ap2k8. For Madden its a nice improvement but for football games overall, its not an advancement. Outside of that everything Madden is bringing to the table this year, we have already been doing the last 2 years with Ap2k8.


3) What still seems to stand out about APF from the evidence we have so far about Madden?

Animations, Oline/Dline interaction, Passing, player ratings, commentary, running game.


4) Are you planning on spending serious time with Madden 10?

If it plays decently and can find a good group of people to play with it will get a good share of time.


5) This one is purely for self-interest: how many would be interested in an online franchise with APF players--in other words, playing online in Madden with guys who play APF whom we know are real football-heads?

I would play.

[Sven Draconian]

Really surprised how many people like APF's momentum. Obviously this is a bit skewed since most of us are 2k die-hards, but I always found 2k8 way to "heavy". I definately want more momentum than the twitch games EA has put out before, but these are top level athletes afterall (and, we play defense in reverse).

[The Autumn Wind]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

Really surprised how many people like APF's momentum. Obviously this is a bit skewed since most of us are 2k die-hards, but I always found 2k8 way to "heavy". I definately want more momentum than the twitch games EA has put out before, but these are top level athletes afterall (and, we play defense in reverse).

Yeah, I feel like APF can be "heavy" at times, but I think it's overall closer to reality than Madden. In APF, I think the momentum could be sped up 10-15% and probably be absolutely perfect. With Madden, you'd have to slow it down like 200% or more to get to the right spot, so it's a matter of relative proximity to the ideal.

[CreatineKasey]

I love the momentum. It makes us follow football rules. We can't sprint blindly in circles with our FS and cover every deep ball. We have to square up, keep our weight centered... it's awesome. I appreciate it when someone makes an exceptional user play on me. It is possible, but along with skill physically - it takes that mental anticipation. That combination is very respected by me.

Big hits are super hard to do and only apply in certain situations... just like real football! It is SO gratifying to lay someone out because it is HARD to do. In madden you can make the screen shake every play and it just doesn't feel that intense when you tip a ball then hitstick a guy... nope not cool.

I love when passing that I need to time things perfectly and I can throw routes before they are open. It is very gratifying to use a QB like Marino and snap throw into holes before they open. I like juking people out with a ballcarrier. It is awesome because it is hard to do and realistic. I love how you can branch tackles because you made a cut or move that created an offbalanced defender... weight, momentum, and position actually matter!

[elgreazy1]

Seems Madden is going to be the same ol' stuff again, which is a major shame. The only reason I'm considering buying M10 is due in part that a lot of fellow APF players are going to be in Madden leagues. That alone can undo the crappiness that is Madden gameplay.

I've had a 2-or so week exile from APF and I can tell you, I'm itching to throw around the virtual pigskin.

[Sven Draconian]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Autumn Wind

Yeah, I feel like APF can be "heavy" at times, but I think it's overall closer to reality than Madden. In APF, I think the momentum could be sped up 10-15% and probably be absolutely perfect. With Madden, you'd have to slow it down like 200% or more to get to the right spot, so it's a matter of relative proximity to the ideal.

Agreed, though, I think Madden took a step in the right direction this year by adding some. It certainly isn't enough to be realistic yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by CreatineKasey

I love the momentum. It makes us follow football rules. We can't sprint blindly in circles with our FS and cover every deep ball. We have to square up, keep our weight centered... it's awesome. I appreciate it when someone makes an exceptional user play on me. It is possible, but along with skill physically - it takes that mental anticipation. That combination is very respected by me. Big hits are super hard to do and only apply in certain situations... just like real football! It is SO gratifying to lay someone out because it is HARD to do. In madden you can make the screen shake every play and it just doesn't feel that intense when you tip a ball then hitstick a guy... nope not cool. I love when passing that I need to time things perfectly and I can throw routes before they are open. It is very gratifying to use a QB like Marino and snap throw into holes before they open. I like juking people out with a ballcarrier. It is awesome because it is hard to do and realistic. I love how you can branch tackles because you made a cut or move that created an offbalanced defender... weight, momentum, and position actually matter!

I would agree, if the AI didn't screw me up constantly. One of the main issues with momentum is what the AI takes over your player at the snap, making you undue what they've done. The most obvious example is playing LB. The AI drops you're guy into coverage on the snap, so when you see run you get those weird stutter/delay/tripping animations and end up standing in place. I hate having to overcome the AI.

The other issue is that the Xbox controller isn't really built for these subtltities (I have no idea if the PS3 is or not). Couple that with some missing animatinos (Defensive Backs need the speed turn/baseball turn, open hips animations and a few others) and I feel like the game is too sensitive.

Madden has no penalty for changing directions at full speed, APF has too harsh a penalty for changing directions at 1/4 speed.

(I LOVE APF's full speed physics and momentum, I just hate the early play overblown momentum).

[Grydnt Vektr211]

truly to be honest, 2k has always been relevant since they started making football gms. AllPro is still one of the best football gms ever( gameplay wise) besides( to me) 2k5 and madden 02( best madden ever to me). i don't think that this yr madden will knock it out the box for one reason and one reason only. THERE WILL DEFINITELY BE PROBLEMS WITH THE GM AND CONSTANTLY THIS GM WILL HAVE TO MEASURE UP TO 2K5 AND ITS NOT!!!!!!!

[thejackal25]

1) Do you think APF will remain relevant after Madden drops; i.e. will it still get serious gaming time from you.

Depends on if Madden is better than APF or not. I play the better game, not the newer game. I've been happy with APF for the past couple years, so I don't see why I can't be content with it this year if Madden isn't up to par.

2) What have you seen from Madden 10 that makes you say "they moved the sport forward" just like you saw APF and said "they moved 2k5 forward"?

While no single feature makes me say that Madden 10 is definitely moving forward, I feel the Madden team's approach this year has me feeling like they're moving forward. Ian and company have made great strides in getting feedback from the hardcore gaming community. Their presence in forums makes it seem like we finally have a voice, which in itself is much appreciated. Whether or not they execute their plan in implementing the changes and adding the features the fans wanted is a different story and will ultimately determine whether or not they have actually move forward from a product stand point.

3) What still seems to stand out about APF from the evidence we have so far about Madden?

Animation and player interaction, simply still look better in APF. The upgraded presentation in M10 also demonstrates how amazing NFL 2k5's presentation is and how no football game has been able to match it.

4) Are you planning on spending serious time with Madden 10?

As is my approach with every game that comes out, I won't purchase it until I read the reviews, read gamer opinions, and do the appropriate research. Madden 10 has the potential to never be played by me as much as it has the potential to be my new favorite football game. I am hoping for the latter, but you never know. I feel no obligation to play or not play the game.

5) This one is purely for self-interest: how many would be interested in an online franchise with APF players--in other words, playing online in Madden with guys who play APF whom we know are real football-heads?

This is truly one of the best communities of sports gamers, and it's been such a pleasure matching wits on the virtual gridiron with all of you. If M10 lives up to its billing and potential, then yes, I would love to play against all of you sim players. Armchair QB's was the best online experience I have ever had, and getting something like that going with NFL franchises would be amazing. Of course if M10 isn't what it should be, you'll see me playing APF for at least the next year, and I'll be looking for some more great games of 2k8 with all of you.