Werewolf XCVII - Labyrinth II (GAME OVER - COMMONERS WIN!) - Page 21

DaddyTorgo · 06-26-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I don't know why we would want to kill villagers sooner. Who knws what tricks are in this labyrinth? The person that the brutal takes tonight might be a move away from some teleport straight to the center.

Think of villager-days as a unit, being every day a villager is alive is a villager-day unit to benefit the village. By killing the brutal today, you're essentially saying we should go with X villager-day units instead of X villager-day units +1.

It doesn't make a big difference, sure. How likely is that one day to produce something tangible for the village? Not likely. But why pick the option that removes any value from it right away? At least if we go the other route (nfg/Tyrith), a question is being answered and we might also get something of value from that villager who will eventually be killed by the brutal.

We kill the brutal today, we don't get anything more of value from that villager, and the nfg/Trytih thing will still need another day to figure out.

we have no way of knowing how close the person the brutal picks will be to the center either today or the next day. you have to remove that from the equation, because it's entirely random.

you take out the brutal today so that you don't lose by leaving them till last if a bunch of us suddenly find "death rooms"

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 01:40 PM

How did that happen now? I don't get it. Oh, I guess it had to do with that decision Danny was talking about. I guess now we'll see what happened with RendeR and that little girl.

nfg22 · 06-26-2009, 01:40 PM

By the way I know that sounds emotional and WOLFY but I see CR's logic and it only becomes more apparent now. Sure if we kill teh brutalwe lose a villager, whether that is today or tommorow but what if the villager that the brutal takes with him only needs one more turn to center? Then we let him get killed a turn early.

nfg22 · 06-26-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

How did that happen now? I don't get it. Oh, I guess it had to do with that decision Danny was talking about. I guess now we'll see what happened with RendeR and that little girl.

I really hope she isnt DEATH girl. That would be horrible. Also, would you stop acting like you care about us, you want us dead. Your probably smiling inside.

nfg22 · 06-26-2009, 01:43 PM

GRR...Im torn between DT and CR...your right that it is random who is closest but also if we wait till the last for JAG we might get to center.

The Jackal · 06-26-2009, 01:43 PM

haha DEATH girl, classic

lerriuqs · 06-26-2009, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfg22

By the way I know that sounds emotional and WOLFY but I see CR's logic and it only becomes more apparent now. Sure if we kill teh brutalwe lose a villager, whether that is today or tommorow but what if the villager that the brutal takes with him only needs one more turn to center? Then we let him get killed a turn early.

And what if they're not and by waiting a day to kill the brutal, they do get there. The argument is the same regardless of when you kill the brutal. There's always the chance that they pick off the one closest. There's no less of a chance tomorrow than there is today.

nfg22 · 06-26-2009, 01:44 PM

I am funny arent I? Wait a second...you created the death room. Jerk.

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfg22

I really hope she isnt DEATH girl. That would be horrible. Also, would you stop acting like you care about us, you want us dead. Your probably smiling inside.

I don't know how many times I have to say that I -- if the wolves win, I lose. It's pretty much said right in the rules. I don't know how I can be any more villager-friendly than that. Why are you trying to divert attention toward me in all this?

nfg22 · 06-26-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lerriuqs

And what if they're not and by waiting a day to kill the brutal, they do get there. The argument is the same regardless of when you kill the brutal. There's always the chance that they pick off the one closest. There's no less of a chance tomorrow than there is today.

You would be right...Im not concerned with the closest getting picked off. I understand that could happen. But if the closest could have gotten there after one more turn and he died because we killed the brutal, then that hurts our chances.

nfg22 · 06-26-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I don't know how many times I have to say that I -- if the wolves win, I lose. It's pretty much said right in the rules. I don't know how I can be any more villager-friendly than that. Why are you trying to divert attention toward me in all this?

Dont act like im diverting attention towards you.Yes you lose if the wolves win but you also only win if we all die. Your not on our team, you might have the same enemies but you have very contradictory goals.

lerriuqs · 06-26-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfg22

You would be right...Im not concerned with the closest getting picked off. I understand that could happen. But if the closest could have gotten there after one more turn and he died because we killed the brutal, then that hurts our chances.

As I said, the same argument exists regardless of when we kill the Brutal. It shouldn't be a consideration IMO.

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lerriuqs

As I said, the same argument exists regardless of when we kill the Brutal. It shouldn't be a consideration IMO.

Generally, if the brutal is the last wolf, he doesn't kill anybody. But that's because usually the game is just over at that point -- it might be different in this game, but it might not.

lerriuqs · 06-26-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

The basic concept of this game is simple - you'll all start on the edge of a Labyrinth, and your goal is to get to the middle. No one knows the layout of the Labyrinth to begin with - no commoner, no wolves, not the minotaur. There will be traps, items, and other things hidden around. The wolves win if they achieve an even ratio with the commoners. The commoners gain a minor victory if they kill all the wolves, but one commoner must reach the center for the game to be over. If at any point a commoner reaches the center, the game ends.

A different twist this time - the wolves did not build this Labyrinth, the Jester did, and as such he brought them here just like everyone else. They will also be trying to find the center - and if a wolf is the first player to reach the center, the game will end in a win for them as well - however, they do not need to find the center to win.
.

The game won't end when the wolves are dead.

lerriuqs · 06-26-2009, 01:55 PM

Jackal - what happens when there is only one wolf left? Can they kill even if they did the night before?

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lerriuqs

The game won't end when the wolves are dead.

You think *I* don't know that? I'm just saying that I don't know if that definitely means the brutal will get his kill if he's the last wolf to die.

nfg22 · 06-26-2009, 01:57 PM

Of course you know that...

The Jackal · 06-26-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lerriuqs

Jackal - what happens when there is only one wolf left? Can they kill even if they did the night before?

Yes. If there is one wolf left he does the kill every night.

nfg22 · 06-26-2009, 01:58 PM

Im out for the night you guys have fun and I hope my boisterious comments and frequent emotional outbursts will not be miscontstrued as Wolf. Where has tyrith been? Maybe RL maybe being quiet to win the game. Give me a chance, you wont regret it.

The Jackal · 06-26-2009, 01:58 PM

I'm just waiting to find out what RendeR wants to do with DEATH girl.

The Jackal · 06-26-2009, 01:59 PM

And I hope he reads the thread, so that he knows that's not her real name.

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I'm just waiting to find out what RendeR wants to do with DEATH girl.

He told us about it but didn't decide? What a crock.

The Jackal · 06-26-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

He told us about it but didn't decide? What a crock.

Many of the encounters in this Labyrinth have a string of multiple choies.

RendeR · 06-26-2009, 02:19 PM

I made one choice and just now a SECOND choice...that little turd best stay in FRONT of me.....

RendeR · 06-26-2009, 02:21 PM

Interesting...not sure how much jackal allows to be told from PM's but the lil girl is leading me somewhere.

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 02:24 PM

Pretty weird. Do you have to keep following her at every turn, or are you just following her wherever she goes now?

RendeR · 06-26-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Pretty weird. Do you have to keep following her at every turn, or are you just following her wherever she goes now?

She wanted my help retrieving her dolly, I said I would help if she could lead me to it, she took my hand and will lead me as far as she can.

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

She wanted my help retrieving her dolly, I said I would help if she could lead me to it, she took my hand and will lead me as far as she can.

Oh okay -- so does that mean you can't decide where you're going in each phase or something?

RendeR · 06-26-2009, 02:53 PM

It means I'm following a little girl and hoping she doesn't EAT ME on teh way to wherever we're going =)

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

It means I'm following a little girl and hoping she doesn't EAT ME on teh way to wherever we're going =)

hahaha -- well I guess it will be interesting to see what The Jackal says when he gets back!

The Jackal · 06-26-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

hahaha -- well I guess it will be interesting to see what The Jackal says when he gets back!

... chumbawumba?

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

... chumbawumba?

Look, just tell RendeR he was eaten by the death girl so we can all move on!

Danny · 06-26-2009, 03:41 PM

When I died, the fun factor plummeted.

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

When I died, the fun factor plummeted.

Yeah -- that happens to me when I die, too.

Danny · 06-26-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Yeah -- that happens to me when I die, too.

But when I die it plummets for everyone

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

But when I die it plummets for everyone

Everyone except the wolves, I guess.

hoopsguy · 06-26-2009, 05:34 PM

I miss Danny already, even if we never were able to establish a telepathic bond.

VOTE JAG

DaddyTorgo · 06-26-2009, 08:21 PM

shit like this dead girl and the death room is why we need to kill the brutal now though, while we still have the numerical advantage

Chief Rum · 06-26-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

shit like this dead girl and the death room is why we need to kill the brutal now though, while we still have the numerical advantage

lol...you really think we're going to lose the numerical advantage? Now that's paranoid!

nfg22 · 06-26-2009, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

lol...you really think we're going to lose the numerical advantage? Now that's paranoid!

Well if we lose one more in a death room/death girl/ death doll, then that leaves us with three after one NK, one brutal kill, one failed lynch on me allowing a NK...Three versus one minotaur?

Chief Rum · 06-26-2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfg22

Well if we lose one more in a death room/death girl/ death doll, then that leaves us with three after one NK, one brutal kill, one failed lynch on me allowing a NK...Three versus one minotaur?

That's like three days away (five with the weekend), assumes a death or two that can't be assumed, and after all that, you still have three for one.

Really, it's going to take a phenomenal effort on the part of the villagers to fail to win this.

nfg22 · 06-27-2009, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

That's like three days away (five with the weekend), assumes a death or two that can't be assumed, and after all that, you still have three for one.

Really, it's going to take a phenomenal effort on the part of the villagers to fail to win this.

Actually thats only two turns...and one has to assume Pass is near the middle...killing one of our guys drops us to two...are you prepared to forge ahead with that?

nfg22 · 06-27-2009, 12:35 AM

dola, Im not assuming any deaths...1st. The brutal will kill two...one on the night we kill JAG and one when he dies. Then it is obvious I am next to be lynched, and that will kill another villager, but im not in the count. So that night one more will die from Tyrith. Pass will likely kill one. That brings us to two.

Chief Rum · 06-27-2009, 01:14 AM

We have 7 villagers, 2 neutral roles and 2 wolves.

We kill a brutal wolf, he takes a villager and a villager is NK'd.

That's 5-2-1.

We either lynch a wolf or a neutral role. Villager is NK'd. We'll take worst case scenario here.

That's 4-1-1.

We lynch the wolf we missed out on. No more wolves.

4-1-0.

You can switch the first and the second, and it's the same result. You still get four villagers versus Passacaglia.

And that assumes Render doesn't block an attack.

Chief Rum · 06-27-2009, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfg22

The brutal will kill two...one on the night we kill JAG and one when he dies.

Not sure, BTW, if you're just misunderstanding the brutal role, but when the brutal wolf is lynched, he doesn't survive the lynch while a villager dies. He dies like normal, and he takes a villager with him. Only one villager dies when the brutal dies, and they both die right away. The day result as a whole is one wolf (the brutal) and two villagers (one killed with the brutal, and one NK'd by the remaining wolf).

nfg22 · 06-27-2009, 01:42 AM

You are right...but my money says Pass kills one of us....leaving three...thats counting no more mishaps...I guess your right though it doesnt matter what order we do it in.

The Jackal · 06-27-2009, 02:14 AM

And welcome to the second worst day of my life. Is it too much to ask that a bar doesn't lose your credit card? Don't expect to hear from me this weekend.

hoopsguy · 06-27-2009, 07:46 AM

NFG, the fact that you are obsessing over the villager numbers here seems strange to me. We have an overwhelming advantage against the wolves at this point. We have a clear pattern for how to eliminate the remaining wolves.

We cannot control the person that the brutal wolf eliminates. We cannot control what Pass/Minotaur does. We cannot necessarily control what a certain room of the Labyrinth may do. Given that we cannot control them, what does it gain us to obsess over what they may or may not do?

The way I see it, we eliminate wolves every day until they are gone. We continue moving towards the center until someone wins the game.

Barkeep49 · 06-27-2009, 10:11 AM

I agree that we pretty much play this thing out as best we can.

Barkeep49 · 06-27-2009, 10:13 AM

And by that I mean let's kill the damn wolves. I believe we know with 100% who one of the wolves is, while we are at a lower, though still high %, who the other wolf is. I like 100%.

06-26-2009, 01:40 PM	#1003
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	By the way I know that sounds emotional and WOLFY but I see CR's logic and it only becomes more apparent now. Sure if we kill teh brutalwe lose a villager, whether that is today or tommorow but what if the villager that the brutal takes with him only needs one more turn to center? Then we let him get killed a turn early. __________________ "Let me never become a slave to the crowds." A. W. Tozer "Are there not millions of us who would rather go sleeping to hell than sweating to heaven?" Thomas Watson.

06-26-2009, 01:43 PM	#1005
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	GRR...Im torn between DT and CR...your right that it is random who is closest but also if we wait till the last for JAG we might get to center. __________________ "Let me never become a slave to the crowds." A. W. Tozer "Are there not millions of us who would rather go sleeping to hell than sweating to heaven?" Thomas Watson.

06-26-2009, 01:44 PM	#1008
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	I am funny arent I? Wait a second...you created the death room. Jerk. __________________ "Let me never become a slave to the crowds." A. W. Tozer "Are there not millions of us who would rather go sleeping to hell than sweating to heaven?" Thomas Watson.

06-26-2009, 01:57 PM	#1017
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	Of course you know that... __________________ "Let me never become a slave to the crowds." A. W. Tozer "Are there not millions of us who would rather go sleeping to hell than sweating to heaven?" Thomas Watson.

06-26-2009, 01:58 PM	#1019
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	Im out for the night you guys have fun and I hope my boisterious comments and frequent emotional outbursts will not be miscontstrued as Wolf. Where has tyrith been? Maybe RL maybe being quiet to win the game. Give me a chance, you wont regret it. __________________ "Let me never become a slave to the crowds." A. W. Tozer "Are there not millions of us who would rather go sleeping to hell than sweating to heaven?" Thomas Watson.

06-26-2009, 01:40 PM	#1002
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	How did that happen now? I don't get it. Oh, I guess it had to do with that decision Danny was talking about. I guess now we'll see what happened with RendeR and that little girl.

06-26-2009, 01:43 PM	#1006
The Jackal Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New York, NY	haha DEATH girl, classic

06-26-2009, 01:55 PM	#1015
lerriuqs High School Varsity Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Saskatchewan	Jackal - what happens when there is only one wolf left? Can they kill even if they did the night before?

06-26-2009, 01:58 PM	#1020
The Jackal Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New York, NY	I'm just waiting to find out what RendeR wants to do with DEATH girl.

06-26-2009, 01:59 PM	#1021
The Jackal Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New York, NY	And I hope he reads the thread, so that he knows that's not her real name.

06-26-2009, 02:19 PM	#1024
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	I made one choice and just now a SECOND choice...that little turd best stay in FRONT of me..... __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

06-26-2009, 02:21 PM	#1025
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Interesting...not sure how much jackal allows to be told from PM's but the lil girl is leading me somewhere. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

06-26-2009, 02:24 PM	#1026
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Pretty weird. Do you have to keep following her at every turn, or are you just following her wherever she goes now?

06-26-2009, 02:53 PM	#1029
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	It means I'm following a little girl and hoping she doesn't EAT ME on teh way to wherever we're going =) __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

06-26-2009, 03:41 PM	#1033
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	When I died, the fun factor plummeted.

06-26-2009, 05:34 PM	#1037
hoopsguy Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Casterly Rock	I miss Danny already, even if we never were able to establish a telepathic bond. VOTE JAG

06-27-2009, 12:35 AM	#1043
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	dola, Im not assuming any deaths...1st. The brutal will kill two...one on the night we kill JAG and one when he dies. Then it is obvious I am next to be lynched, and that will kill another villager, but im not in the count. So that night one more will die from Tyrith. Pass will likely kill one. That brings us to two. __________________ "Let me never become a slave to the crowds." A. W. Tozer "Are there not millions of us who would rather go sleeping to hell than sweating to heaven?" Thomas Watson.

06-27-2009, 01:14 AM	#1044
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	We have 7 villagers, 2 neutral roles and 2 wolves. We kill a brutal wolf, he takes a villager and a villager is NK'd. That's 5-2-1. We either lynch a wolf or a neutral role. Villager is NK'd. We'll take worst case scenario here. That's 4-1-1. We lynch the wolf we missed out on. No more wolves. 4-1-0. You can switch the first and the second, and it's the same result. You still get four villagers versus Passacaglia. And that assumes Render doesn't block an attack. __________________ . . On this subject I do not wish to think, or speak, or write, with moderation. No! no! Tell a man whose house is on fire, to give a moderate alarm; tell him to moderately rescue his wife from the hands of the ravisher; tell the mother to gradually extricate her babe from the fire into which it has fallen; but urge me not to use moderation in a cause like the present. I am in earnest--I will not equivocate--I will not excuse--I will not retreat a single inch-- AND I WILL BE HEARD!!!

06-27-2009, 01:42 AM	#1046
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	You are right...but my money says Pass kills one of us....leaving three...thats counting no more mishaps...I guess your right though it doesnt matter what order we do it in. __________________ "Let me never become a slave to the crowds." A. W. Tozer "Are there not millions of us who would rather go sleeping to hell than sweating to heaven?" Thomas Watson.

06-27-2009, 02:14 AM	#1047
The Jackal Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New York, NY	And welcome to the second worst day of my life. Is it too much to ask that a bar doesn't lose your credit card? Don't expect to hear from me this weekend.

06-27-2009, 07:46 AM	#1048
hoopsguy Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Casterly Rock	NFG, the fact that you are obsessing over the villager numbers here seems strange to me. We have an overwhelming advantage against the wolves at this point. We have a clear pattern for how to eliminate the remaining wolves. We cannot control the person that the brutal wolf eliminates. We cannot control what Pass/Minotaur does. We cannot necessarily control what a certain room of the Labyrinth may do. Given that we cannot control them, what does it gain us to obsess over what they may or may not do? The way I see it, we eliminate wolves every day until they are gone. We continue moving towards the center until someone wins the game.

06-27-2009, 10:11 AM	#1049
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I agree that we pretty much play this thing out as best we can.

06-27-2009, 10:13 AM	#1050
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	And by that I mean let's kill the damn wolves. I believe we know with 100% who one of the wolves is, while we are at a lower, though still high %, who the other wolf is. I like 100%.

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