Pirates

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I can't believe there is no thread about the pirate story off Somalia.

I wanted to shout USA! USA! USA! when I heard that the crew retook the ship.

What would you say about how to rescue the captain being held in the lifeboat?

I say put a bunch of divers underwater & sink the damn thing.

[flere-imsaho]

Step 1: Drop fake bills as ransom money near their lifeboat.

Step 2: Wait for them to let the captain go.

Step 3: Run them over with a destroyer.

BONUS: Change the site of all future live fire Naval shelling/bombing exercises to the Somalian coast.

[Dr. Sak]

I say we send Pumpy in after them!

[Klinglerware]

Yet another topic that's been a serious issue for years (and even talked about off and on, on this board)--only to be covered by the American networks when Americans are involved.

I think only the NY Times covered it when pirates intercepted a ship with (allegedly) covert arms bound for Kenya...

[Klinglerware]

Dola - I think most everyone ends up paying the ransom, since the resources are not available to effectively combat the pirates

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I say we send Pumpy in after them!

Winner

SI

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Dola - I think most everyone ends up paying the ransom, since the resources are not available to effectively combat the pirates

That and the ransom is considerably cheaper than having the ship sunk.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

That and the ransom is considerably cheaper than having the ship sunk.

Yeah, from a cost-benefit standpoint... definitely.

[JediKooter]

Need to send in that crafty British commando named Ffolkes. He'll get the job done.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I say we send Pumpy in after them!

Who is to say that it wasn't Ninja Pumpy that went in and freed them? He might have made it in and out so fast that no one saw him.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Yet another topic that's been a serious issue for years (and even talked about off and on, on this board)--only to be covered by the American networks when Americans are involved.

I think only the NY Times covered it when pirates intercepted a ship with (allegedly) covert arms bound for Kenya...

Was about to post the same thing. There was a really good article in GQ about the Somalian pirates in the issue prior to the current one. There was another in Maxim not too long ago.

[stevew]

I can't believe we let this shit go on. Is it so bad we don't have a few extra ships and some bloodthirsty naval and marine ops to fix the problem. Fuck Somalia. I hope SkyNet fucks up and launches the first strikes on them.

[Solecismic]

I had the original plan for capturing hostages along the Somali coast.

Damn pirates.

[Pumpy Tudors]

So is this what Derek Bell is up to now?

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Logan

Was about to post the same thing. There was a really good article in GQ about the Somalian pirates in the issue prior to the current one. There was another in Maxim not too long ago.

Listen, Logan. If you need advice on how to properly fuck your girlfriend, just PM me. No need to throw money away on a Maxim subscription.

[tarcone]

I keep thinking this is about Sid Meiers game.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I keep thinking this is about Sid Meiers game.

The good version or that bastardization from a few years ago?

[CU Tiger]

only the sega genesis version....

[Drake]

Serious question (only marginally related to pirates): will an entire generation have to pass before America will give a shit about Somalia again after the "Black Hawk Down"/Battle of Mogadishu incident? Less the incident itself than the parading of Randy Shughart's body through the city streets.*

I'm thinking so.


* I'm pulling Shughart's name out of memory and could be wrong. Anyone old enough to remember the incident will know immediately what I'm talking about.

[lordscarlet]

I feel like the pirate situation has been pretty well covered? I know that I've been aware of it for quite some time. I don't think this story got huge until they retook the ship. That's what is giving it headlines.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by stevew

I can't believe we let this shit go on. Is it so bad we don't have a few extra ships and some bloodthirsty naval and marine ops to fix the problem. Fuck Somalia. I hope SkyNet fucks up and launches the first strikes on them.

World is 75% water- we have a hard time patrolling small countries. Let's not even think about vast oceans. It's not like we have a "few extra ships" to patrol international waters that aren't even ours or the political fallout from that. But it would take tens of thousands of ships and it's not like we have the spare cash or manpower sitting around for that.

SI

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

only the sega genesis version....

Definitely. I went out and bought a Sega Genesis a couple years ago, just for Pirates.
The game without the map was $50. With the map it was $100.

[Izulde]

Until Somalia can offer an actual job market, piracy is going to be far too lucrative a career to stamp out.

[Big Fo]

They are just trying to protect their favorite fishing spots iirc.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

They are just trying to protect their favorite fishing spots iirc.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

HELL YEAH!

Originally Posted by BBC

The captain of a US container ship taken hostage by Somali pirates has been released, the US Navy has said.

Three pirates were said to have been killed in the operation to free Captain Richard Phillips, who had been held in a lifeboat for several days.

Capt Phillips is said to be unhurt and on the USS Bainbridge, a warship sent to track the pirates holding him.

BBC NEWS | Africa | US captain released from pirates

[DeToxRox]

Good.

[dawgfan]

Great news.

I have absolutely no doubt this story is going to turn into a movie - it's great material.

And yeah, you wonder at what point the UN and the international community will get sick enough of this constant piracy to attempt nation-building again in Somalia.

[Izulde]

Frankly I find the new coverage of this to be :eyeroll:

The crew and captain were never really going to be in danger. As somebody noted earlier in the thread, these pirates don't kill people and don't take the cargo or anything. They simply hold everything for ransom and when the ransom's paid, the goods and/or people get returned.

I really don't find much wrong with what the pirates are doing. The economic opportunity is there and with nothing else open to them, it makes sense to engage in piracy, particularly the brand they're practicing, where nobody gets hurt and money merely changes hands from a rich entity to an impoverished one.

The hoopla and ridiculous commitment of manpower and resources on this recovery/rescue effort is, I think, akin to trying to fight conventionally against guerrilla style tactics, only on water instead of land. It's inefficient and a waste.

If the nations of the world -really- cared about the piracy problem, they'd work in improving the economic and life situation in Somalia. Anything else is just grandstanding designed to provoke precisely the blind U-Rah-Rah patriotism we've seen even from members in this thread.

[judicial clerk]

Frankly I find the new coverage of this to be :eyeroll:

The crew and captain were never really going to be in danger. As somebody noted earlier in the thread, these pirates don't kill people and don't take the cargo or anything. They simply hold everything for ransom and when the ransom's paid, the goods and/or people get returned.

I really don't find much wrong with what the pirates are doing. The economic opportunity is there and with nothing else open to them, it makes sense to engage in piracy, particularly the brand they're practicing, where nobody gets hurt and money merely changes hands from a rich entity to an impoverished one.

The hoopla and ridiculous commitment of manpower and resources on this recovery/rescue effort is, I think, akin to trying to fight conventionally against guerrilla style tactics, only on water instead of land. It's inefficient and a waste.

If the nations of the world -really- cared about the piracy problem, they'd work in improving the economic and life situation in Somalia. Anything else is just grandstanding designed to provoke precisely the blind U-Rah-Rah patriotism we've seen even from members in this thread.

wrong

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Frankly I find the new coverage of this to be :eyeroll:

The crew and captain were never really going to be in danger. As somebody noted earlier in the thread, these pirates don't kill people and don't take the cargo or anything. They simply hold everything for ransom and when the ransom's paid, the goods and/or people get returned.

I really don't find much wrong with what the pirates are doing. The economic opportunity is there and with nothing else open to them, it makes sense to engage in piracy, particularly the brand they're practicing, where nobody gets hurt and money merely changes hands from a rich entity to an impoverished one.

The hoopla and ridiculous commitment of manpower and resources on this recovery/rescue effort is, I think, akin to trying to fight conventionally against guerrilla style tactics, only on water instead of land. It's inefficient and a waste.

If the nations of the world -really- cared about the piracy problem, they'd work in improving the economic and life situation in Somalia. Anything else is just grandstanding designed to provoke precisely the blind U-Rah-Rah patriotism we've seen even from members in this thread.

Umm, really? So you think it would be fine to be held captive by pirates for ransom because they live in a region of severe economic turmoil?

It's one thing to understand the reasons why these people engage in piracy and hostage-taking. I know why they do it. But it's another thing entirely to say that it's not "wrong". It's still wrong - they are still stealing and engaging in extortion with the threat of violence against innocents as a result.

I'm a long ways away from being a "rah-rah", "USA! USA!" kind of person. I'm happy because an innocent man is now free, and I feel little sympathy for the pirates killed. They played with fire, and they got burned.

I would hope that the result of this rescue is less about navies engaging in daring commando raids to rescue hostages (though I support these actions when the chance of success is high and the risk to the hostages low) and more about the international community deciding to address the root cause of the piracy problem and try to help rebuild Somalia into a place where such prolific piracy is not such an attractive vocation.

[lungs]

A functioning government might be a good start in Somalia. If the different regions can't settle their differences then break them up.

Somalia is not a shining example of limited government working too well.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Yet another topic that's been a serious issue for years (and even talked about off and on, on this board)--only to be covered by the American networks when Americans are involved.

I think only the NY Times covered it when pirates intercepted a ship with (allegedly) covert arms bound for Kenya...

This is a load of crock. That was a big story lots of places when it happened, plus coverage of most taken ships; I read about these all the time on CNN.com. Reader's Digest had a great story on a couple in a sailing yacht that fought some off. This isn't exactly buried, it just fights for coverage with everything else. Having Americans involved certainly bumps up the priority, but it's not like this is sudden news around here.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I really don't find much wrong with what the pirates are doing. The economic opportunity is there and with nothing else open to them, it makes sense to engage in piracy, particularly the brand they're practicing, where nobody gets hurt and money merely changes hands from a rich entity to an impoverished one.

Let's say your parents are very wealthy. You're out walking along and someone shoves you into his van which he is living out of after he lost his job, couldn't pay rent, maxed out his CCs. He locks the door, dials up your parents and says, "I have no plans on hurting your son, but I'll only give him back to you for $2 million."

No problem with it?

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

This is a load of crock. That was a big story lots of places when it happened, plus coverage of most taken ships; I read about these all the time on CNN.com. Reader's Digest had a great story on a couple in a sailing yacht that fought some off. This isn't exactly buried, it just fights for coverage with everything else. Having Americans involved certainly bumps up the priority, but it's not like this is sudden news around here.

No. The average pirate story would not make it on to the Today show. The network news coverage is also very disappointing in that it was covered with the human-interest/drama angle emphasized, with the opportunity to present context and further analysis minimized. But, of course, that is no longer the purvey of network news. The result is that the average American who gets their news from TV only gets a very superficial understanding of the issue.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

No. The average pirate story would not make it on to the Today show. The network news coverage is also very disappointing in that it was covered with the human-interest/drama angle emphasized, with the opportunity to present context and further analysis minimized. But, of course, that is no longer the purvey of network news. The result is that the average American who gets their news from TV only gets a very superficial understanding of the issue.

You say this as if it's something new.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I really don't find much wrong with what the pirates are doing.

You're out of your fucking mind, you do realize that, right?

If the nations of the world -really- cared about the piracy problem, they'd work on eliminating the supply of pirates in Somalia.

Fixed that horseshit you posted.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Umm, really? So you think it would be fine to be held captive by pirates for ransom because they live in a region of severe economic turmoil?

It's one thing to understand the reasons why these people engage in piracy and hostage-taking. I know why they do it. But it's another thing entirely to say that it's not "wrong". It's still wrong - they are still stealing and engaging in extortion with the threat of violence against innocents as a result.

I'm a long ways away from being a "rah-rah", "USA! USA!" kind of person. I'm happy because an innocent man is now free, and I feel little sympathy for the pirates killed. They played with fire, and they got burned.

I would hope that the result of this rescue is less about navies engaging in daring commando raids to rescue hostages (though I support these actions when the chance of success is high and the risk to the hostages low) and more about the international community deciding to address the root cause of the piracy problem and try to help rebuild Somalia into a place where such prolific piracy is not such an attractive vocation.

I just don't really see the justification for moral outrage here, not according to the pirates' current MO. On the other hand, I'm not saying we should be sympathetic to the pirates killed. Like you said, they played with fire and got burned. It's part of the risk they took when they signed on. And yes, I would be fine with it. After all, there's been no indication as far as I know, that they were mistreating any of their hostages.

I also agree that the best outcome of this event would be for other nations to invest in rebuilding Somalia, but I'm very pessimistic about that occurring.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Logan

Let's say your parents are very wealthy. You're out walking along and someone shoves you into his van which he is living out of after he lost his job, couldn't pay rent, maxed out his CCs. He locks the door, dials up your parents and says, "I have no plans on hurting your son, but I'll only give him back to you for $2 million."

No problem with it?

None. I'd expect the $2 million to be paid and I'd be set free, no harm done. If my parents are as wealthy as all that, $2 million won't ruin our lives or anything and it would get that man back on his feet economically.

Of course, he's running many of the same risks that the pirates are, perhaps even more than them given that the US is a stable and powerful enough government to enforce its laws.

[Glengoyne]

The moral of this story is that if you are a Somali pirate, you should really try and avoid the duty of guarding the American citizen you're holding hostage. The odds just aren't in your favor.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You're out of your fucking mind, you do realize that, right?

Fixed that horseshit you posted.

Not surprised to see this reaction at all from you, Jon, as what I posted is pretty much antithesis to your views.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Izulde

None. I'd expect the $2 million to be paid and I'd be set free, no harm done. If my parents are as wealthy as all that, $2 million won't ruin our lives or anything and it would get that man back on his feet economically.

You're a strange cat.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Izulde

None. I'd expect the $2 million to be paid and I'd be set free, no harm done. If my parents are as wealthy as all that, $2 million won't ruin our lives or anything and it would get that man back on his feet economically.

Wouldn't they just kidnap you again (or someone else), maybe for $4 million?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

No. The average pirate story would not make it on to the Today show. The network news coverage is also very disappointing in that it was covered with the human-interest/drama angle emphasized, with the opportunity to present context and further analysis minimized. But, of course, that is no longer the purvey of network news. The result is that the average American who gets their news from TV only gets a very superficial understanding of the issue.

Oh, I see, ABC/CBS/NBC. I stopped watching them LOOONNNNGGGGGG ago. They stopped being relevant to me when they started making up news stories / falsifying evidence to support their stories. I think it was the late 80s.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I also agree that the best outcome of this event would be for other nations to invest in rebuilding Somalia, but I'm very pessimistic about that occurring.

So we should give the warlords running Somalia money when they pirate commercial ships? Maybe $10 million per ship? And this would somehow end piracy? (or maybe your goal is to increase it, as a wealth re-distribution scheme?)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Izulde

After all, there's been no indication as far as I know, that they were mistreating any of their hostages.

Any than, of course, the whole holding them against their will thing. But hey, why quibble over such a minor point?

Seriously, you sound completely bat shit crazy in this thread.

[Logan]

Yeah man, I understand you're on this "let's heal all the ills in the world" kick, but you're going about it wrong.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

The moral of this story is that if you are a Somali pirate, you should really try and avoid the duty of guarding the American citizen you're holding hostage. The odds just aren't in your favor.

Which is the strangest part of the whole incident--the pirates typically would not go after American-flagged vessels because of the potential risks. Perhaps they got confused by the fact it was a Maersk-owned vessel?

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Any than, of course, the whole holding them against their will thing. But hey, why quibble over such a minor point?

Seriously, you sound completely bat shit crazy in this thread.

I have to agree with this. Unless Izulde is a pirate himself, I don't understand that stance at all.

Also, from what I heard I believe they were shooting at the Captain after he jumped ship this time.

[bhlloy]

Never mind that, let's start with the assumption that it's ok to reward people for breaking the law as long as they are poor? I'm sure Izulde will be fine with people breaking into his house and stealing all his stuff because, well you know they are worse off than he is...

I can only assume somebody was sipping the mimosas at Easter Sunday lunch a little bit too much today