Alright boyz, here we GO!!! KANYE WEST - GRADUATION

[korme]

It comes out tomorrow, but admittedly I got a bootleg copy. I didn't want to hear the album early, but someone gave it to me and it was too tempting. I will be buying my official copy tomorrow, but so far, so good!

Kanye West could turn anybody into a hip-hop fan.

[cthomer5000]

I think he's highly overrated, personally.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think he's highly overrated, personally.

+1

[Desmond]

I don't like his music, but i love the color of his skin.

[cthomer5000]

"George Bush doesn't care about black people."

[Young Drachma]

Umm..from what I've heard so far, it'll be better than anything 50 Cent puts out, though Universal Music Group are the real winners since both fall under their umbrella despite 50's supposed "retirement" claim if Kanye outsells him.

I think the singles he's released are good, but his latest cameos on other people's albums (Talib Kweli and Common specifically) have been fine rhymewise, while his production has been subpar compared to his old work.

I was really impressed with the stuff Jon Brion did on that last album of Kayne's and realize that he won't do work like that anytime soon..and so, I dunno. Sample-heavy hip-hop is getting on my nerves these days and since that's the core of his shtick, I think this album will be a lot like Kingdom Come was.

Good, but nothing that'll stick.

[rkmsuf]

Does he have like 37 guest stars on this thing?

[Honolulu_Blue]

I don't think I've ever heard a Kayne West song. Maybe that explains why I am not a hip-hop fan.

I did read he threw a hissy fit of some kind because he failed to win a MTV Video Award, despite quite a few nominations. That's pretty lame.

[korme]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Does he have like 37 guest stars on this thing?

Actually, of the 13 official songs he is the only artist that raps on the entire CD, with the exception of Lil' Wayne in one song. He's got guest spots by Chris Martin (Coldplay), Dwele, Mos Def, and T-Pain, but just for chorus'.

The thing about him is he doesn't rap about cars and bitches, he's deep lyrically and very clever.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Does he have like 37 guest stars on this thing?

My understanding is from one of the reviews I read, is that he doesn't have enough guest stars.

Kayne West is one of those rappers that gets annoying after a few tracks if you don't have someone else to break up the pace a little bit. So if that's indeed true when I hear it, I imagine that it'll be annoying.

That said, he's not the first person I recommend to someone who didn't like hip-hop and was trying to get into it. He's bombastic, he's a bit annoying and while not crass really and introspective to a degree; he's an acquired taste and one of those artists that if you're already entering the genre with preconceived notions against it...he'd not be enough to sway the average listener.

It'd be the same way that I doubt I'd play Chris LeDoux, Garth Brooks or George Strait for someone who didn't listen to country, who had biases against it from the start, because I doubt they'd convince you of anything that you didn't already assume about it before it got started.

And no, I'm not comparing Kanye West to any of them. Just saying...

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think he's highly overrated, personally.

Man, you only like female singers anyway.

[rkmsuf]

EPMD 4EVA

[korme]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

My understanding is from one of the reviews I read, is that he doesn't have enough guest stars.

Kayne West is one of those rappers that gets annoying after a few tracks if you don't have someone else to break up the pace a little bit. So if that's indeed true when I hear it, I imagine that it'll be annoying.

That said, he's not the first person I recommend to someone who didn't like hip-hop and was trying to get into it. He's bombastic, he's a bit annoying and while not crass really and introspective to a degree; he's an acquired taste and one of those artists that if you're already entering the genre with preconceived notions against it...he'd not be enough to sway the average listener.

It'd be the same way that I doubt I'd play Chris LeDoux, Garth Brooks or George Strait for someone who didn't listen to country, who had biases against it from the start, because I doubt they'd convince you of anything that you didn't already assume about it before it got started.

And no, I'm not comparing Kanye West to any of them. Just saying...

I completely disagree with this entire post... especially trying to validate your opinion by saying you'd not recommend Garth Brooks to a non-country listener... hello.... biggest country star, if you're not a country fan (I'm not), you don't want to hear some no-name, you want to hear the hits that everyone loves... duh. You wouldn't become a fan of a genre by listening to somebody 1% of the world has heard of relatively.

[Fidatelo]

I was a big Kanye fan after College Dropout, but soured on him over the last couple years. The album with Golddigger (can't remember the name) was pretty bland, and his rap style has not evolved at all (an argument you can also attach to 50 Cent).

Combine that with this stupid "feud" and I won't be buying his album or 50's.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

The thing about him is he doesn't rap about cars and bitches, he's deep lyrically and very clever.

Sure he raps about women. He just doesn't call them bitches most of the time. He laments everyday issues and talks about society in a very clever way for sure. But he's angry. He's bitter and he's misinformed like most entertainers. I think that for the uninitiated, the vernacular and the speed of it might be too much for most non hip-hop listeners.

Especially an entire album.

I think Common's album would be way better for folks to digest if you were saying, "here's an album from this year that would be a good introduction to mainstream hip-hop without the bling," than anything Kanye ever puts out. He's like a graduate degree in some obscure, not likely to make you wealthy area.

You either get it or you don't and even after you've done it, you're not 100% sure that it was the most useful thing in the world. But you can usually cite some sort of esoteric reason why it might have been a good idea or you'll rationalize it.

Hip-hop is funny. Because most people assume it's just vapid booty shaking music that makes kids want to fuck, murder and abandon their unborn children. But even the most vile rappers are remarkable introspective and "deep" beyond what you'd expect. Unfortunately, they're generally speaking about matters or a world that isn't really accessible to people who are over the age of 25, who are married and have kids or who don't make a conscious effort to just know what they are talking about.

The crudeness that exists in rock is often worse, but it gets masked by blaring guitars and drums and of course, inaudible singers who go out of their way not to make sense when they write lyrics often stoned. Meanwhile, country is earnest and pure even when it's crass. But it's often so gritty and earthen and so honest at times that you can listen and think, "ok, this is just too real for me. I need to veg out." (See Lori McKenna's latest album...)

Most rappers by contrast take themselves entirely too seriously and think they're poignant and deep and aren't too aware that the majority of society -- even the ones buying their music in droves -- have no idea what they're talking about. In fact, they might know it and thrive on such ignorance.

All of it is kinda funny, interesting and yet...weird at the same time.

[MikeVic]

I don't think his lyrics are that great. But I like that he doesn't rap about bitches and stuff. Don't really like 50 Cent or those other gangsta rappers. But Lil' John was amusing. He had energy in his music, and some songs with guitar too.

I've never been a country fan, but the songs that have gotten me to at least stop on the country tv channel sometimes were two songs by Toby Keith (What goes down in Mexico stays in Mexico or something like that, and something about him being as good as he once was), that Save a Horse Ride a Cowboy song, and Online by Brad Paisley.

[korme]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I was a big Kanye fan after College Dropout, but soured on him over the last couple years. The album with Golddigger (can't remember the name) was pretty bland, and his rap style has not evolved at all (an argument you can also attach to 50 Cent).

Combine that with this stupid "feud" and I won't be buying his album or 50's.

That feud was brought on and ended by 50, when asked about it Kanye said:

"When I heard that thing about the debate, I thought that was the stupidest thing. When my albums drops and 50's album drops, you're gonna get a lot of good music at the same time."


Last night at the VMA's they both came out together and introduced an award so it's squashed.

Anyways, to Dark Cloud, we don't see eye to eye on music at all, which is fine... I love his music and don't want you ruining this parade any longer!

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

I completely disagree with this entire post... especially trying to validate your opinion by saying you'd not recommend Garth Brooks to a non-country listener... hello.... biggest country star, if you're not a country fan (I'm not), you don't want to hear some no-name, you want to hear the hits that everyone loves... duh. You wouldn't become a fan of a genre by listening to somebody 1% of the world has heard of relatively.

I love Garth.

But we'll have to agree to disagree. Just because you get your kicks off of listening to mainstream artists en masse, doesn't mean that people who have a predisposition to HATING a particular genre before they get started, are going to get into "what's hot". Chances are, what's hot is just a bunch of drivel anyway. And for the folks who love Garth, there are plenty that have no use for him at all.

In his specific case, he brought country to folks who never listened to it before. He brought the showmanship of rock and roll to a genre that still has women getting into a tizzy because George Strait stands there for 2 hours in his blue jeans strumming a guitar. (And I realize that's happening less and less, but go with it...)

My point was simply that if you're trying to sneak someone into a new genre (and I do this ALL the time), that you have to bend their mind by giving them stuff that they don't expect to hear in that genre. Then as it goes on, get them further and further in. And if they're a person who synthesizes music a certain way in their brain, they'll dig on their own.

I didn't start listening to hip-hop until my 20s, because of huge biases I had against it (and of course, the natural stereotype of being the black guy who listened to it..) and it wasn't until I had a few friends who listened to underground stuff, that got me into it.

That said, on the tip you mentioned about "popular" stuff...the first rap album I bought was Dr. Dre's 2001 album. But even though that was mainstream, it wasn't really "popular" in a mainstream way (except for the Eminem tracks, which weren't even the best ones on the LP).

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

That feud was brought on and ended by 50, when asked about it Kanye said:

"When I heard that thing about the debate, I thought that was the stupidest thing. When my albums drops and 50's album drops, you're gonna get a lot of good music at the same time."


Last night at the VMA's they both came out together and introduced an award so it's squashed.

Anyways, to Dark Cloud, we don't see eye to eye on music at all, which is fine... I love his music and don't want you ruining this parade any longer!

Late Registration was brilliant. The fact that he got Jon Brion to produce a hip-hop album still amazes me to this day and the stuff they managed to do together....will stand the test of time to me. What other rapper could get away with 3 minute interludes in the middle of a track for orchestral strings AND make the shit sound hot. He's a genius, no doubt. College Dropout was a breath of fresh air, too.

We don't disagree as much as you'd think.

[Subby]

I have probably listened to "Stronger" about 50 times since my wife downloaded it on iTunes last week. Hopefully there are some other songs on the album which are as good.

We are talking about the same album, right?

[korme]

Originally Posted by Subby

I have probably listened to "Stronger" about 50 times since my wife downloaded it on iTunes last week. Hopefully there are some other songs on the album which are as good.

We are talking about the same album, right?

Yes

Be my black kate moss

[stevew]

Not that I found a link to the CD or anything, and I certainly didn't download it or anything. But yeah, it has at least 5-6 good songs on it, and I'll probably buy it if I can find it for around 10 bucks.

And hypothetically, there's no way I would forward you the link that doesn't exist, so don't bother asking.

[cmp]

I was a big Kanye fan before his first cd even came out. This cd is pretty good, I think it's better than Late Registration but not as good as College Dropout. Big Brother, Good Life, Homecoming and I Wonder are my favorites.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

My understanding is from one of the reviews I read, is that he doesn't have enough guest stars.

That's too bad. My favorite part of any rap album released in the last decade is playing "Who the hell is this guy?"

The ultimate goal should be to create a full album by an artist who doesn't appear at all on any track. We're very close.

[Noop]

I have the bootleg and intend to buy his album.

1. Good Morning - Decent Intro. 3.0/5

2. Champion - I love the sample and Kanye spits heat on this track. 4.5/5

3. Stronger - One of his best songs good thing I don't listen to radio. 4.5/5

4. I Wonder - Average track. 3.0/5

5. Good Life - My favorite song on the album. T-Pain kills it. 5.0/5

6. Can't Tell Me Nothing - Very Deep song if you take the time to break it down. 4.5/5

7. Barry Bonds - Alot of my friends love this song while I think it is good but but not great. 4.0/5

8. Drunk And Hot Girls - Again deep meaning which at the surface won't be heard. 4.0/5

9. Flashing Lights - I am not sure what I think, this song is I dunno so-so. 3.0/5

10. Everything I Am - Hmm I am not to sure about this either. 3.0/5

11. Glory - The beginning of the track had me hooked. I love this song. 4.5/5

12. Homecoming - Another song I love because of the meanings that are layered behind it. 5.0/5

13. Big Brother - Pretty good track but I wish it wasn't the ending track. 3.5/5

[DeToxRox]

Yawn. Kanye samples his owns songs, totally cool.

If you want something real, check out P.O.S, Sage Francis or Sims.

[DeToxRox]

Dola . Kanye whines too fucking much.

[sabotai]

I thought this was pretty funny.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Musi...ef=mpstoryview

[Logan]

I hope his rapping is better than his acting ability.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Noop

I have the bootleg and intend to buy his album.

1. Good Morning - Decent Intro. 3.0/5

2. Champion - I love the sample and Kanye spits heat on this track. 4.5/5

3. Stronger - One of his best songs good thing I don't listen to radio. 4.5/5

4. I Wonder - Average track. 3.0/5

5. Good Life - My favorite song on the album. T-Pain kills it. 5.0/5

6. Can't Tell Me Nothing - Very Deep song if you take the time to break it down. 4.5/5

7. Barry Bonds - Alot of my friends love this song while I think it is good but but not great. 4.0/5

8. Drunk And Hot Girls - Again deep meaning which at the surface won't be heard. 4.0/5

9. Flashing Lights - I am not sure what I think, this song is I dunno so-so. 3.0/5

10. Everything I Am - Hmm I am not to sure about this either. 3.0/5

11. Glory - The beginning of the track had me hooked. I love this song. 4.5/5

12. Homecoming - Another song I love because of the meanings that are layered behind it. 5.0/5

13. Big Brother - Pretty good track but I wish it wasn't the ending track. 3.5/5

Just an aside, why do 0.5 ratings on a 5 point scale when you can do integers on a 10 point scale?

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Just an aside, why do 0.5 ratings on a 5 point scale when you can do integers on a 10 point scale?

It's a black culture thing. You wouldn't understand.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

The ultimate goal should be to create a full album by an artist who doesn't appear at all on any track. We're very close.

Timbaland was damn close on his most recent one.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by sabotai

It's a black culture thing. You wouldn't understand.

Gotcha. Thanks.

[korme]

Originally Posted by stevew

Timbaland was damn close on his most recent one.

Yeah, but Timbaland doesn't really count. If I got a Timbaland CD and it was just him I'd probably give up on rap.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by sabotai

It's a black culture thing. You wouldn't understand.

Please explain to me this comment?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

Be my black kate moss

An example of his many "deep" lyrics.

[korme]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

An example of his many "deep" lyrics.

ct you strike me as thinking you are somewhat smarter than everyone else...

It's not exactly like I tried to give an example of the deepness I was talking about, instead when I post a lyric referencing the song Subby mentioned, you feel that's the perfect time to make your "valid" point.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by sabotai

It's a black culture thing. You wouldn't understand.

*giggle*

[Julio Riddols]

Blue Scholars, Ny Oil, Brother Ali, and the aforementioned Sage Francis are getting heavy play for me right now, so I havent been in a hurry to hear Kanye yet... Thats how he rates for me.. He is relevant, but I don't think he is particularly special aside from his production skills.. His production contributions to projects like Commons last two albums seem more worthwhile because I find myself more able to get into the total song instead of listening mostly to the beat. All I think Kanye lacks lyrically is a better sense of emotion - He sometimes sounds to me like an updated version of Mase.

While I find Kanyes production personally highly influential, and while I will probably pick this disc up just for that influence, the whole time I will be wishing the lyrical spotlight was on guest appearances rather than his own.

[Groundhog]

West's latest album, "Graduation," is due out Tuesday. 50 Cent has said he'd stop making solo records if West's CD outsells his "Curtis" album, also set for release Tuesday, in their first week out.

I really hope Kayne outsells fiddy, just to see if he keeps his word.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

ct you strike me as thinking you are somewhat smarter than everyone else...

It's not exactly like I tried to give an example of the deepness I was talking about, instead when I post a lyric referencing the song Subby mentioned, you feel that's the perfect time to make your "valid" point.

I just think he's highly overrated and presented as some deep thinker when it's something he's not. He's a decent pop star basically yet some people act as if he's the second coming.

His lyrics come off as deep maybe to someone who has never read a book in their lives or something. I've heard plenty of his stuff, and I stand by my assesment.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I really hope Kayne outsells fiddy, just to see if he keeps his word.

Except that 50's next album has already been recorded, so he can keep his word and still drop a new record at some point. He also said specifically he'd retire from solo albums I think, which means he could do a G-Unit release and a bunch of guest stuff. Then he un-retires in 3 years and never misses a beat.

50 cent is the most transparent artist I've ever seen. All of his 'beefs' are fabrications to inflate record sales and/or keep his name in the news, and he doesn't even appear to care that it is blatantly obvious.

[wade moore]

Just read this whole thread. I have a new level of respect for Dark Cloud after reading it.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I think Common's album would be way better for folks to digest if you were saying, "here's an album from this year that would be a good introduction to mainstream hip-hop without the bling," than anything Kanye ever puts out. He's like a graduate degree in some obscure, not likely to make you wealthy area..

Common's "Finding Forever" has been playing in my car now for several weeks. Common is smooth to what I do hear from hip-hop/rap and it's very ecletic. Granted he still talks about ladies (guest spot D'Angelo), but I've never heard such hope (I got Kanye's Late Registration and while I like it, it doesn't have soul, it's vibrant and all but I could listen to Common on a late night drive, or chilling in the house...the most active song is co-sung with Kanye "Southside" which I found offputting...it rocked, but Kanye sounded out of tune to the smooth rhythm Common would be speaking...and "Finding Forever" has nods to Nina Simone and borrows the drum rhythm from Paul Simon's "50 ways to leave your lover" and turn it into a song of redemption (not about love, but about life).

I guess in the end, "Finding Forever" sounded human and the reason why I enjoy it.

This is coming from someone who has very little hip hop in his 700 CD collection.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Common's "Finding Forever" has been playing in my car now for several weeks. Common is smooth to what I do hear from hip-hop/rap and it's very ecletic. Granted he still talks about ladies (guest spot D'Angelo), but I've never heard such hope (I got Kanye's Late Registration and while I like it, it doesn't have soul, it's vibrant and all but I could listen to Common on a late night drive, or chilling in the house...the most active song is co-sung with Kanye "Southside" which I found offputting...it rocked, but Kanye sounded out of tune to the smooth rhythm Common would be speaking...and "Finding Forever" has nods to Nina Simone and borrows the drum rhythm from Paul Simon's "50 ways to leave your lover" and turn it into a song of redemption (not about love, but about life).

I guess in the end, "Finding Forever" sounded human and the reason why I enjoy it.

This is coming from someone who has very little hip hop in his 700 CD collection.

You hit the nail on the head. I had the CD on my Zune for weeks before I bothered to listen to the whole thing straight through. I really liked the track with Lily Allen and I don't have much use for her as a solo artist as I do with her cameos.

He did a great job with this album and that song with Kanye was irritating as hell, having his frantic craziness on an otherwise good track. And his production fingerprints on this album to me were a little over the top..and not in a good way.

But Common did great work and it shows me that it's possible for former underground artists who get a bigger venue for their music, to still make stuff that holds up to scrutiny in a way their old stuff did, if not more.

[Scholes]

I think that it's his worst effort to date, and Late Registration was worse than College Dropout. There just seems to be something missing. Besides Stronger, which is great but I know I'll get sick of it if I ever listen to the radio, there just aren't any upbeat type songs. Everything is a little more melodic, with sing-songy choruses and such. Just my take.

[korme]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I just think he's highly overrated and presented as some deep thinker when it's something he's not. He's a decent pop star basically yet some people act as if he's the second coming.

His lyrics come off as deep maybe to someone who has never read a book in their lives or something. I've heard plenty of his stuff, and I stand by my assesment.

So you've heard his hits. Congratulations, you've figured him out.

I have never read a book

[rkmsuf]

lol, shorty is a whigger

[cthomer5000]

I've heard both his prior albums (in their entirety), multiple times. He does nothing for me.

[korme]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

lol, shorty is a whigger

did you just call me a white nigger?