Alright Boyz, Here We Go!!! The Official Windows Vista Impressions Thread

[gstelmack]

I just finished upgrading my machine from XP Pro to Vista Home Premium. I'll be posting impressions and maybe some screenshots as I dig into this thing. My machine specs:

• P4 3.0 GHz with Hyper-Threading
• 2 GB RAM
• 128 MB NVidia GeForce 6600GT
• 2 EIDE Hard Drives

I rate a 4.2 on Vista's computer rating scale (a 5.0 is supposed to be a high-end machine when Vista launched). My CPU brought this down (my wife's brand new Core 2 Duo E6300 1.86GHz rated a 4.8 for comparison), with my hard drives pretty close (4.6 thanks to a slower transfer rate, presumably ATA133 vs SATA).

Some initial impressions:

• The upgrade from XP Pro to Vista Home Premium is not supported, so it did a clean install. It moved my old Windows setup to a Windows.old folder and then setup all new. For those who have done this before, this is TRULY a clean install: even Program Files and Documents and Settings got dumped into Windows.old, and all new folders are created. These are still available to copy from, but you don't have to worry about differentiating old from new because it sticks new stuff in the same folders as your old stuff. This will make it MUCH easier to clean out obsolete stuff that's been hanging around for years from old installs once I have the machine set up and all my old software reinstalled.
• Upgrade took an hour or two while I was messing around with other things in the house. This may be the quickest I've had a machine back after starting a Windows upgrade ever.
• I like the new Sidebar and Gadgets. I've got the clock, calendar, weather, and CPU meter (which includes a RAM meter) going. I'll get a screenshot of this up later tonight (taking our daughter to the circus in a bit, so only have a little bit).
• UI looks cleaner. I think they're doing different font selections, but they really paid attention to the look. I hated the XP look, but I'm liking Vista. It remains to be seen if Extractor can handle this...
• So far any trouble I have finding things is due to XP baggage I bring along. Once I find things, though, they make a lot more sense where they are. For example, all my user settings are under "User/Greg" instead of "Documents and Settings/blah/". I still need to play around more.

In my limited experience so far, I'm really pleased. Smoothest Windows upgrade yet, and it really looks like a leap forward (in a good way) for the user experience. We'll see if everything holds up as I install software, use FOF, and try to manage the system.

[MizzouRah]

This is great to hear as I'll be upgrading mine in a few weeks.

[DaddyTorgo]

when you do the "upgrade advisor" where does it list what your score is?

[wbatl1]

Yeah, keep this going because it really will help me when I make the jump...

Thanks!

[hoosierdude]

I would like to see someone that has more of a less brawny kind of system do the same thing, and see the results. Most newer systems are able to handle Vista, I just wonder how the borderline user would do as well.

[ISiddiqui]

(what I posted from the other Vista thread)

Absolutely love it. Some problems with drivers (nVidia are a bunch of morons) , but nothing too horrible. The interface (Aero Glass) is incredibly slick as stated and really looks nice. A lot under the hood as well. I've used the new search a few times, and I really think it'll save a ton of time. The new photo gallary is also nice. The quick shut down and start up are very nice indeed.

The constant admin questions (do you want to run 'x') is a bit annoying but not horrible.

Once all the new drivers are released, it'll probably be very nice for gaming.

--

Though I do have a fairly new computer, bought it last year with a nVidia 7800 GT (c'mon nVidia update your drivers... it works fine for now, but with a framerate hit) and an AMD Dual Core (now with Intel's Core 2 Duo, it shows its age). I just upgraded to 3 GB RAM for Vista, so it is a pretty smooth experience.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I rate a 4.2 on Vista's computer rating scale (a 5.0 is supposed to be a high-end machine when Vista launched). My CPU brought this down (my wife's brand new Core 2 Duo E6300 1.86GHz rated a 4.8 for comparison), with my hard drives pretty close (4.6 thanks to a slower transfer rate, presumably ATA133 vs SATA).

For comparison, mine was a 4.6. So fairly new. What actually brought it down was the RAM (4.6). Processor was 4.8, Hard drive was 5.4, Gaming graphics was 5.8, and Graphics (in general) was 5.9.

So fairly high end again. I would be interested in seeing how a less new computer runs Vista, but I'm sure it wouldn't run as well as XP does.

[SirFozzie]

*points and laughs at all the people who buy Crapta*

[ISiddiqui]

*points and laughs at all the people who still have XP or the craptastic OSX or linux*

I'm very happy with my choice and feel not even an inkling to switch.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

*points and laughs at all the people who still have XP or the craptastic OSX or linux*

I'm very happy with my choice and feel not even an inkling to switch.

So you prefer broken by design? Curious

[SirFozzie]

Vista is Microsoft selling out to the content companies, and is broken by design.

An example

Vista's content protection mechanism only allows protected content to be sent over interfaces that also have content-protection facilities built in. Currently the most common high-end audio output interface is S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format). Most newer audio cards, for example, feature TOSlink digital optical output for high-quality sound reproduction, and even the latest crop of motherboards with integrated audio provide at least coax (and often optical) digital output. Since S/PDIF doesn't provide any content protection, Vista requires that it be disabled when playing protected content [Note E]. In other words if you've sunk a pile of money into a high-end audio setup fed from an S/PDIF digital output, you won't be able to use it with protected content.

Say you've just bought Pink Floyd's “The Dark Side of the Moon”, released as a Super Audio CD (SACD) in its 30th anniversary edition in 2003, and you want to play it under Vista. Since the S/PDIF link to your amplifier/speakers is regarded as insecure for playing the SA content, Vista disables it, and you end up hearing a performance by Marcel Marceau instead of Pink Floyd.

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...ista_cost.html

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

So you prefer broken by design? Curious

Hasn't bothered me any.

Btw, I prefer a less biased source. Someone devoted to slagging off MS doesn't exactly make me believe him.

[SirFozzie]

Ok.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37091

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Hasn't bothered me any.

Btw, I prefer a less biased source. Someone devoted to slagging off MS doesn't exactly make me believe him.

BTW, I'd consider the thing pretty well sourced. He even got comments from MicroSoft

[McSweeny]

i'm not coming here to join the debate, i just want to say that i've been in love with my recent return to Apple and i'm extremely happy with OSX 10.4 and have had zero desire to use XP or Vista or anything else

[ISiddiqui]

Like I said, though, hasn't bothered me any. Though, I will say that if what is said (protected content will require a playback medium has content protection enabled) is close to what is actually happening, its merely the direction the entire industry is going to combat the problems with piracy. And I do have little problems with that (this is one place where I am closer to JIMG's point of view than some others on this site).

In addition, this stuff is decided NOT new to Vista. I know The Inquirer wants to slag off the 10 questions, but in it:

Associating usage policies with commercial content is not new to Windows Vista, or to the industry. In fact, much of the functionality discussed in the paper has been part of previous versions of Windows, and hasn’t resulted in significant consumer problems – as evidenced by the widespread consumer use of digital media in Windows XP. For example:

• Standard definition DVD playback has required selective use of Macrovision ACP on analog television outputs since it was introduced in the 1990s. DVD playback on and in Windows has always supported this.
• The ability to restrict audio outputs (e.g., S/PDIF) for certain types of content has been available since Windows Millennium Edition (ME) and has been available in all subsequent versions of Windows.
• The Certified Output Protection Protocol (COPP) was released over 2 years ago for Windows XP, and provides applications with the ability to detect output types and enable certain protections on video outputs such as HDCP, CGMS-A, and Macrovision ACP.

[ISiddiqui]

Also:

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/0...osoft-and-you/

The problem is, some pundits have been so anxious to blast Windows Vista that they’ve started to spread information that is inaccurate or exaggerated. I was suspicious of the “Sky-is-Falling” gloom-and-doom accusations of content protection in Vista. Sure enough, those of you with actual technical experience wrote in to confirm that at least some of this information was overblown. Readers using Vista haven’t had reliability and usability problems in Vista in general. DRM restrictions are optional; they apply only when you buy hardware built to play the content and only while you’re playing the protected content (like a Blu-Ray disc). And driver signing requirements, while they initially made us a little nervous, aren’t a major hurdle: you can turn off signing requirements to install unsigned drivers when you need to, developing signed drivers should be practical for most developers, and signing requirements may stop misbehaved drivers from trashing your PC system.

Based on Microsoft’s response and other information we’ve received, the situation appears to be this:

1. Content protection only comes into play when you’re playing protected content. These restrictions don’t apply to your whole machine, period. Unless you’re trying to mix the audio output from a Blu-Ray disc into your set in SONAR, it doesn’t matter.
2. Open source developers will still be able to write drivers. (I’ve heard as much from some in the development community.)
3. Content restrictions do not impact pro audio. You may have heard about restrictions on S/PDIF digital output. Unless you record your set to a protected file and add the DRM yourself, this will NOT impact work you’re doing in pro audio apps.
4. Don’t worry about tilt bit. Microsoft believes the hypothetical tilt bit problems posed by some pundits are unlikely. Do you believe Microsoft? Again, it really doesn’t matter, as long as you’re not playing HD-DVD / Blu-Ray on your machine; the restrictions don’t apply at any other time.
5. Games, music apps, pro audio, and everything else on your system is safe, because the restrictions apply only to content that has already been restricted.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by McSweeny

i'm not coming here to join the debate, i just want to say that i've been in love with my recent return to Apple and i'm extremely happy with OSX 10.4 and have had zero desire to use XP or Vista or anything else

Not to get too sidetracked here, but I have been strongly considering Macintosh for my next purchase. One thing I am unsure of is how many freeware options there are out there for OSX. Can you shed some light on how it compares to the freeware world for Windows? It is one of the biggest draws to the platform for me (and please stick to Mac for my question, I am pretty knowledgeable about Linux and am also considering it).

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Not to get too sidetracked here, but I have been strongly considering Macintosh for my next purchase. One thing I am unsure of is how many freeware options there are out there for OSX. Can you shed some light on how it compares to the freeware world for Windows? It is one of the biggest draws to the platform for me (and please stick to Mac for my question, I am pretty knowledgeable about Linux and am also considering it).

depends on what you are looking for.

[MJ4H]

In general. For instance, in Windows I can find a freeware application for almost any task. It sounds to me like this is not the case for Mac?

[McSweeny]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

In general. For instance, in Windows I can find a freeware application for almost any task. It sounds to me like this is not the case for Mac?

you can find pretty much everything you need here:

http://osx.hyperjeff.net/Apps/

a great list of OS X native apps/utilities/games/etc/etc/etc. you can search and sort by license so you should be able to get an idea of how much freeware is out there

[MJ4H]

Cool, better than I expected, thanks.

[Karim]

Essential Mac OS X Applications
Macworld: Mac Gems Catalog

I've been a convert for about six months now. The only software I had trouble installing was Ethereal. The only software I couldn't find was an image resizer. There are lots of graphical editing suites out there but I didn't want an entire suite.

I use both OSes, along with Linux so I see the pros and cons of each.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Vista is Microsoft selling out to the content companies, and is broken by design.

If I actually played protected content on my PC, that might start affecting me. And if I did, I'd probably be using a protected channel.

But I don't. I use my DVD player, Xbox, and Satellite receiver for all that stuff. My computer is for playing games, writing code, doing household stuff, and distributing my unprotected CD library across the household network for music playing.

[TheOhioStateUniversity]

Just Upgraded to Vista Ultimate, pretty impressed so far.

[MizzouRah]

I finally opened my Windows Vista upgrade package and after a failed install the first time (really neat as it restored my pc back to Windows XP flawlessly), I did the install again and all is well.
I REALLY like what I'm seeing so far. Everything is so easy to find using the new search tool. Color me impressed so far.

I have to wait until next month for a driver for my printer though.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I have to wait until next month for a driver for my printer though.

That type of concern is the only reason I'm holding off on an upgrade.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

That type of concern is the only reason I'm holding off on an upgrade.

FWIW, Microsoft does have a good online system checker and it did tell me that was the case. I don't print much at home, so for me.. it's no biggie right now.

[gstelmack]

Yup, download the "Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor" and it will tell you what hardware / software is going to have issues, along with links on anything you can do about it (versions to upgrade to, etc).

[gstelmack]

I will say that I think the Backup and Restore center in Vista is a step back from XP. It does not have a simple "Get everything in my Documents folder" setting, instead it backs up entire drives based on file types. And if it doesn't recognize a file type (like, say, everything in my Perforce Depot), it won't get it unless you say "All file types", in which case it backs up anything that isn't an exe or DLL. So backup up my 2GB Documents folder and 3GB Pictures folder eats up around 46GB or so.

If only I could get Cobian to work on Vista (doesn't like to get the engine launching)... So I'm on the lookout for another backup solution, and I'm willing to pay money if I can find something that lets me say "Back up everything in these 2 folders".

[MizzouRah]

Initial impressions were favorable.

Two months later and tonight I'm going to go back to Windows XP Media Center.

1. I like some of the new tools, but Vista is just too slow compared to XP right now - and I have a new system.

2. I'm also getting random freezes where I have to hold the power button to power the system off.

3. Games are not running very well - text sims are ok, but games like HOMM are not running like they should - that's Vista and it's new-ness, but it's annoying to me.

4. My friend and his wife bought two identical laptops, one had XP the other (his wife) has Vista. Apps took longer to open in Vista and features like copy and paste took longer. It's just a slower OS at this point in time.

I think high powered systems that are built strictly for Vista might be ok, but I'm getting too frustrated right now to deal with it. Hell, Dell had to go back to offering XP on its new systems due to customer demands.

So, I'm going to miss some of the "visual" coolness, calendar, clock, weather box, etc.. as well as the great troubleshooting tool, but it's just not as quick as I would like it to be.

[Emiliano]

Just got my new computer, I've upgraded to Vista Home Premium as well. Pretty impressed so far, and no problem with text-sims whatsoever.

Only doubt I have is: how come with a 512 Mb Nvidia 7300 LE graphic card, I got a "2.8" as a graphic score? The card is not top-notch, for sure, but it's still a pretty good card. Strange.

[gstelmack]

Check your nVidia drivers. But a 7300 LE is not really all that fast. The test works by running some actual graphics test to see how fast it is at certain things, and that's what it came up with.

Might also want to double-check and make sure you're actually using the new card, and the monitor isn't hooked up to the onboard video or something similarly strange.

[Emiliano]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

But a 7300 LE is not really all that fast.

Yep. I also noticed that, of the 512 Mb, only 128 are dedicated memory, the rest is "Turbocache" memory, which works only when it needs to. No wonder why it was so cheap... Well, my mistake this time. Anyway, it's not that bad.

[Emiliano]

This just came to my mind: is it better to install the actual ASUS drivers (it's an ASUS card), the ones inclued with the card? Or it doesn't make a difference?

[gstelmack]

Install the ones from nVidia's site, especially for Vista.

[Emiliano]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Install the ones from nVidia's site, especially for Vista.

Yeah, that's what I did. Thanks.

EDIT: I guess I'll just sell it on eBay then, and get a better one.

[MizzouRah]

Yeah, I have a 7300 LE and it sucks... came with the pc, I see an upgrade in my future.

Unless your pc is a quad core, you'll learn to hate Vista. Simple tasks like copy and paste take forever. I'm so glad I went back to XP.

[Emiliano]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Yeah, I have a 7300 LE and it sucks... came with the pc, I see an upgrade in my future.

Yeah, I think I'll get a new one ASAP. I wanted to get a couple of new RTS games, and I could use a good graphic card. Not too expensive, but a better one. I'm seriously considering the 7600GS and the 8500GT, both 512 Mb cards by nVidia.

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Unless your pc is a quad core, you'll learn to hate Vista. Simple tasks like copy and paste take forever. I'm so glad I went back to XP.

I gotta say, I still have to get used to some things, but I'm liking it so far. I got an Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8, and is fast enough. At least until now...

[MizzouRah]

I have a core duo 6400 (2.13Ghz) and some things that are lightning in XP take a bit in Vista.

[TazFTW]

Any word on when an SP1 (or whatever they are going to call it ) will be coming out?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Any word on when an SP1 (or whatever they are going to call it ) will be coming out?

There's a strong rumor that it will be out sometime around October.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Hell, Dell had to go back to offering XP on its new systems due to customer demands.

Crap, I wish I had seen this before I ordered my new PC from Dell last week. I never saw that option when I was customizing it, though.

I'm really nervous about the switch over to Vista, and this thread really isn't making me feel any better...

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Crap, I wish I had seen this before I ordered my new PC from Dell last week. I never saw that option when I was customizing it, though.

I'm really nervous about the switch over to Vista, and this thread really isn't making me feel any better...

Not all of their models have the option for XP. They seem to be phasing it out. I bought a computer through Dell earlier this week and XP was not an option.

I've been using Vista on my wife's laptop for the past 2 months and I've only run into a couple of problems with compatibility. Everything else has worked fine for me. I haven't even noticed any slowdown with copy and paste.

I am considering a Vista/Xp dual boot setup, though. Has anyone tried this out? I read through a guide for setting it up and it actually seems pretty simple if you have Vista and you're adding XP as the 2nd boot option.

[Izulde]

I'll upgrade to Vista the next time I get a new computer.... I tend to be pretty slow when it comes to adopting new operating systems as I'm comfortable with the old ones.

[cthomer5000]

I have an upgrade, but I am not upgrading now. My laptop does exactly what I need it do to now (audio editing, web surfing, occasional FOF MP export). I dont see the need to fuck with it until absolutely necessary.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I have an upgrade, but I am not upgrading now. My laptop does exactly what I need it do to now (audio editing, web surfing, occasional FOF MP export). I dont see the need to fuck with it until absolutely necessary.

Where was that logic when Dell sent me the free Vista upgrade?

[Daimyo]

I've been running Vista + Office 2007 for about 6 months now and like it okay. For the end user experience Vista isn't really all that different IMO. I use XP at work and there isn't anything missing there that frustrates me.

Office 2007 is a different story though... once you get used to the new interface it is light years ahead of 2003. I use that in both places and would get very frustrated going back to 2003.

[Daimyo]

DOLA, when I first went to Vista I was in driver hell for a week or two with poor performance, random crashes, etc, etc. But once I got that sorted out its been smooth sailing. I run an AMD X2 3800+ with 2 GB of RAM and don't notice any slow down compared to XP. Don't even bother if you have less than 1GB of RAM though.

[Emiliano]

Originally Posted by Emiliano

Only doubt I have is: how come with a 512 Mb Nvidia 7300 LE graphic card, I got a "2.8" as a graphic score? The card is not top-notch, for sure, but it's still a pretty good card. Strange.

So, I removed this card (trying to sell it to bring a lil' money in), and went with the 256Mb Intel whatever, integrated in my Asus mobo. Guess what, I now got a "3.5" as a score for video memory. Man, that 7300LE was veeery bad...