Alright Boyz, Here We Go!!!! (6.0b Thoughts...)

[Ben E Lou]

Since many didn't get too far into 6.0a, I thought I'd go ahead and post this thread. Post impressions, and especially things that are new/changed since 6.0.

New features/improvements noticed to date:

• Player of the week wins are now differentiated from player of the week mentions.
• Scouted bar ratings added to depth chart screens.
• New information added to e-mail screens, including when to do weight training, summer league and draft interviews.
• Positional experience added to main player card.
• Significantly decreased lag time when cycling through player cards of other teams.
• Recommend Player searches tremendously faster.

[Ben E Lou]

Positional experience info.

Originally Posted by Help File

The area underneath the skill set bars indicates your player's experience level at various positions. The red bars above are set based on the player's current assigned position.

The color background for each position shows the player's rough experience level at his position. A red background indicates a player is fully developed, orange is a step down, then orange-yellow, yellow, lime green, blue-green, light blue, medium blue, blue and finally purple, indicate the player has little to no experience at the position.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Since many didn't get too far into 6.0a, I thought I'd go ahead and post this thread. Post impressions, and especially things that are new/changed since 6.0.

New features noticed to date:

• Player of the week wins are now differentiated from player of the week mentions.
• Scouted bar ratings added to depth chart screens.
• New information added to e-mail screens, including when to do weight training, summer league and draft interviews.
• Positional experience added to main player card.

Don't forget the decreased lag time when cycling through player cards of other teams. Also, the Recommend Player function is a lot faster than in the past.

[Northwood_DK]

I know the colours convert to numbers something like this but would properly have preferred to see a number or bar on the player card instead of a colour-code.


Red – 90% - 100%
orange – 80% - 90%
orange-yellow – 70% - 80%
yellow – 60% - 70%
lime green – 50% -60%
blue-green – 40% - 50%
light blue – 30% - 40%
medium blue 20% - 30%
blue – 10% - 20%
purple – 0% - 10%

[Peregrine]

The starters' playing time issue that was causing (among other things) a lack of great receiving seasons has been fixed.

[Narcizo]

The patch looks great and it's fantastic that Jim has taken the time to sort out the problems people have been encountering.

I hate to be Mr Whiner but the number of one year contracts being requested by players on your own roster and by free agents is really annoying. I can only imagine that it will be more so in MP league where you don't get to test out a variety of offers to see which a player will go for in order to sign over more than one year.

Jim said that players who don't request a signing bonus will request a one-year contract, but it's not just those sorts of players. My main back-up left tackle is requesting a one-year contract, which as he's in his fourth year is absolutely no use to me whatsoever. And he wants a good portion of it to be in a bonus.. Because you have to offer a whole lot more in bonus (per year) to get a player to sign a longer contract than they want this leaves me offering him starter's money to keep him on the team. He's currently content with playing time so it's not that he wants to move or be paid a lot of money (I think). It's very frustrating having to go through the roster and have to feel your way towards how much each player wants in order to stay on the team. Of the 13 players I have to resign this year in order to avoid them hitting free agency, 8 of them are requesting a one-year deal and all of those have a signing bonus.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Northwood_DK

I know the colours convert to numbers something like this but would properly have preferred to see a number or bar on the player card instead of a colour-code.

Agree but that is easy modable to use other colors or even a red that is zero to full filled for each position. The problem is that the bars will be so small as there must be one per position so not sure if the filled difference will be noticeable enough in the middle points.
Going to try it now, sometimes i get more fun doing mods than playing games

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

The patch looks great and it's fantastic that Jim has taken the time to sort out the problems people have been encountering.

I hate to be Mr Whiner but the number of one year contracts being requested by players on your own roster and by free agents is really annoying. I can only imagine that it will be more so in MP league where you don't get to test out a variety of offers to see which a player will go for in order to sign over more than one year.

Jim said that players who don't request a signing bonus will request a one-year contract, but it's not just those sorts of players. My main back-up left tackle is requesting a one-year contract, which as he's in his fourth year is absolutely no use to me whatsoever. And he wants a good portion of it to be in a bonus.. Because you have to offer a whole lot more in bonus (per year) to get a player to sign a longer contract than they want this leaves me offering him starter's money to keep him on the team. He's currently content with playing time so it's not that he wants to move or be paid a lot of money (I think). It's very frustrating having to go through the roster and have to feel your way towards how much each player wants in order to stay on the team. Of the 13 players I have to resign this year in order to avoid them hitting free agency, 8 of them are requesting a one-year deal and all of those have a signing bonus.

Are you only running into this during Renegotiations?

The best I can figure, is that this is meant to model the idea of, "I want to test the market in FA"?

If so, that doesn't bother me so much - I felt it was WAY too easy to just reneogiate contracts in 2k4 to keep your best players around. In the NFL, it is not NEARLY as easy to just extend contracts as it was in 2k4. There are often times when people just want to test the trade market, unless you completely blow them away.

However, if you're talking about during the FA period, yeah, I'm with you, that will be pretty frustrating.

[Narcizo]

I checked it out in week 2 of the free agency period. If they want to test the free market next year I guess it kind of makes sense and that was partially what I was thinking was behind it. Although it would have been nice to get some sort of text saying that instead.

It seems that a lot of free agents are asking for one year deals as well. Presuming that the AI offers what is being asked for (which seems a fair assumption but could stand testing) then this means that there could wind up being loads of nomadic mercenaries moving from one team to the next each year in SP. I don't know enough about the NFL to know whether that's realistic or not. So these are just observations not complaints.

[SegRat]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

It seems that a lot of free agents are asking for one year deals as well. Presuming that the AI offers what is being asked for (which seems a fair assumption but could stand testing) then this means that there could wind up being loads of nomadic mercenaries moving from one team to the next each year in SP. I don't know enough about the NFL to know whether that's realistic or not. So these are just observations not complaints.

I like this idea. Now you actually will have to negotiate with players to get long term deals, instead of just offering what they are asking for.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I checked it out in week 2 of the free agency period. If they want to test the free market next year I guess it kind of makes sense and that was partially what I was thinking was behind it. Although it would have been nice to get some sort of text saying that instead.

It seems that a lot of free agents are asking for one year deals as well. Presuming that the AI offers what is being asked for (which seems a fair assumption but could stand testing) then this means that there could wind up being loads of nomadic mercenaries moving from one team to the next each year in SP. I don't know enough about the NFL to know whether that's realistic or not. So these are just observations not complaints.

I'll have to check this out, I don't mind a few guys wanting to test FA, that's a good idea, but if it's everyone then we get back to the bad old days of everyone changing teams every year. This definitely wasn't a problem with the original release of 2K7 so hopefully it will work out in this patch also.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

I'll have to check this out, I don't mind a few guys wanting to test FA, that's a good idea, but if it's everyone then we get back to the bad old days of everyone changing teams every year. This definitely wasn't a problem with the original release of 2K7 so hopefully it will work out in this patch also.

Isn't that the NFL?

But really, I'd like to see how common this really is and where it's happening, but on the surface this could be a good thing, but if it's too common then not so much.

[Fritz]

damn it. I had just gotten enough time to play with 6a to realize there are melodramatic folks in the FOF community.


well, I knew that already

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Northwood_DK

I know the colours convert to numbers something like this but would properly have preferred to see a number or bar on the player card instead of a colour-code.

How do you like this now? I have added the numbers to the experience buttons. Of course it all looks smaller but no other way to fit position and experience in that reduced space. As there are only 10 different color icons, i have set the numbers in steps of 10% too, so a 100 guy could have an experience between 91 to 100, a 50 guy will have an experience between 41 to 50, etc.

Top of the image is how it looks in the original, bottom is my modded one:

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Icy

How do you like this now? I have added the numbers to the experience buttons. Of course it all looks smaller but no other way to fit position and experience in that reduced space.

That sure looks awesome Icy! That will help me a lot.

[Ronde Barber]

really nice Icy!!!! and very useful....
Can you update your 6b exe for a super-upgrade????
thanks a lot for all your patching work!!!!!!

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by Icy

How do you like this now? I have added the numbers to the experience buttons. Of course it all looks smaller but no other way to fit position and experience in that reduced space.

Top of the image is how it looks in the original, bottom is my modded one:

Great job Icy. Seriously, Jim should just have a room for you and Cuervo when he moves into his new house.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Fritz

damn it. I had just gotten enough time to play with 6a to realize there are melodramatic folks in the FOF community.


well, I knew that already

No kidding. Are any of these people actually going to, you know, play the game and give impressions, or just tinker around with figuring out what itty-bitty graphics need to be modded? Don't know about you, Fritz, but I'm looking forward to delving into the actual game this evening.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Icy

How do you like this now? I have added the numbers to the experience buttons. Of course it all looks smaller but no other way to fit position and experience in that reduced space.

Top of the image is how it looks in the original, bottom is my modded one:

Just a quick point of clarification - these numbers are best guesses at ranges, right? We don't atually know the numbers tied behind these colors for sure?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Just a quick point of clarification - these numbers are best guesses at ranges, right? We don't atually know the numbers tied behind these colors for sure?

Well, since there are 10 colors given in the range, it makes sense...

[Ronde Barber]

yes, i think they're best guesses, but help a lot knowing the number in a scale of 10 (i.e. in the picture, we know the LT can range from 60 to 70, the LG from 80 to 90 and the RG from 90 to 100). That's if i understand correctly....

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Well, since there are 10 colors given in the range, it makes sense...

Agreed...

But, we don't know it... I just worry about potential complaints down the line when something on the field doesn't match this assumption...

Nothing major, just thought it should be noted that those numbers are done for our sanity, not because we know it is the scale.

[Icy]

Wade moore:
The numbers are in steps of 10% as are the icons colors, of course there are numbers in between but you can't also know them looking at colors only. I have edited my post before to explain it and avoid troubles.

Ronde Barber:
I have updated my thread with this mod and also the link to the modded 6.0b exe with all my mods already applied.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Icy

Wade moore:
The numbers are in steps of 10% as are the icons colors, of course there are numbers in between but you can't also know them looking at colors only.

Ronde Barber:
I have updated my thread with this mod and also the link to the modded 6.0b exe with all my mods already applied.

I gave you a suggestion in the other thread, but my point is we dont' know that each change in color represents 10% increase... A part of me believes that some colors were "thicker" than others in 6.0a, which leads me to believe that say light blue could represent 20% development or something...

[Icy]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I gave you a suggestion in the other thread, but my point is we dont' know that each change in color represents 10% increase... A part of me believes that some colors were "thicker" than others in 6.0a, which leads me to believe that say light blue could represent 20% development or something...

My only solution to this as has been proposed is to create another mod with just numbers from 1 to 10 but then i guess the problem would be the same, 10 steps that we don't know for sure what represent, this hapends also with colors, you don't kow the real % and i guess it can be considered as scouting margin of error.

[Northwood_DK]

Originally Posted by Help File
The area underneath the skill set bars indicates your player's experience level at various positions. The red bars above are set based on the player's current assigned position.

The color background for each position shows the player's rough experience level at his position. A red background indicates a player is fully developed, orange is a step down, then orange-yellow, yellow, lime green, blue-green, light blue, medium blue, blue and finally purple, indicate the player has little to no experience at the position.

No I don’t know for sure. I just added the numbers based on this part of the help file that SkyDog posted earlier.

[Shkspr]

(cue John Facenda voice)

And Patch 6.0a would forver be known as The Day Youth Would Be Served, as within the span of a week in the 2008 season, rookie potential trumped canny veteran experience in half a dozen cities across the landscape. Matt Leinart, Jay Cutler, Charlie Frye, and three 2007 first round draft picks broke through the Astroturf ceiling and replaced the journeymen ahead of them on the depth chart.

But with Patch 6.0b, soon to be known as The Day Youth Was Tied Up in An Alley and Forgotten, five of these six quarterbacks were dumped back to the bench three weeks later in the season and Jeff Garcia, Ken Dorsey, and a one-legged Drew Bledsoe regained the starting jobs that some claimed were theirs by birth.

::moved from announcement thread::

[Narcizo]

I think the AI depth chart setting is far better. I have a 2nd year SLB rated 37-45 who is starter over a 43-43 vet. Hardly a huge deal but it shows that the AI is more tilted towards giving youth a chance.

Elsewhere a 20-43 RT rookie is favoured over a 33-35 2nd year. A 23-53 rookie receiver starts ahead of an aging 41-41 receiver. You'd never see any player starting ahead of a player with a better current ability before the patch or in 2004. All in all it looks like the sort of selections I'd make (with a few discepencies that might be down to scouting error). So that looks very good.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Just a quick point of clarification - these numbers are best guesses at ranges, right? We don't atually know the numbers tied behind these colors for sure?

Just look at newly drafted rookies to determine the actual range for each color, since development percentage (=current position experience) is displayed on their player card. Or, at least it is in 6.0 and 6.0a, I haven't looked at 6.0b yet.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Icy

How do you like this now? I have added the numbers to the experience buttons. Of course it all looks smaller but no other way to fit position and experience in that reduced space. As there are only 10 different color icons, i have set the numbers in steps of 10% too, so a 100 guy could have an experience between 91 to 100, a 50 guy will have an experience between 41 to 50, etc.

Top of the image is how it looks in the original, bottom is my modded one:

That's awesome Icy, but I did notice that the LT and RT colours seem to be switched from the first screenshot to the second one. Because the first one LT looks orange-yellow and RT looks yellow, but in the modded one, LT looks yellow and RT looks orange-yellow.

[twothree]

In 6.0b these are the ranges I have seen for the new rookie draft class

color (current position)    developed %

red                   
orange               
orange-yellow                  69-78
yellow                         56-72
lime green                     45-64
blue-green                     34-54
light blue                     23-42
medium blue                    12-32
blue                            1-21
purple                          1-9

Note the overlap in the ranges. So in 6.0b, while percentage developed is probably still the most accurate, it appears that the color displayed for experience has an error factor built into it, which might be position dependent and/or scout ability dependent.

These ranges may be bigger as I only looked at one draft class. Also, there was not a very large sample at the high end of percentage developed, so in particular the orange-yellow range probably can go lower than 69% developed. I didn't have any orange and or red in the draft class.

[wade moore]

Good data twothree.

Seems like we still have a bit to learn about the experience bars.... This also brings to question whether developed % translates directly to the exp bar, and whether there is scout error between the draft and when they are on your roster.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by wade moore

This also brings to question whether developed % translates directly to the exp bar...

It translated exactly to current position experience in 6.0a. (The height of the experience bar for the current position = the percentage developed for new rookies.) If there was a scouting error in either percentage developed or experience, it was the exact same scouting error with no deviation that I saw.

It does not in 6.0b. This could be because of a scouting error in either the displayed percentage developed or the displayed experience colors. My guess, while there could be some scouting error in displayed percentage developed, the majority of any scouting error is found in the colored experience display. And, my bad reasoning is: You have no stats to judge a rookie.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by twothree

It translated exactly to current position experience in 6.0a. (The height of the experience bar for the current position = the percentage developed for new rookies.) If there was a scouting error in either percentage developed or experience, it was the exact same scouting error with no deviation that I saw.

It does not in 6.0b. This could be because of a scouting error in either the displayed percentage developed or the displayed experience colors. My guess, while there could be some scouting error in displayed percentage developed, the majority of any scouting error is found in the colored experience display. And, my bad reasoning is: You have no stats to judge a rookie.

Ok, I'm pretty much sold on the fact that these two are tightly tied together then.

This makes me even more firm in my thought that Icy should be careful about how he displays those numbers in his mod.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Ok, I'm pretty much sold on the fact that these two are tightly tied together then.

This makes me even more firm in my thought that Icy should be careful about how he displays those numbers in his mod.

FWIW I installed these and don't care if he shows 1-9 or 10-20. I don't take it as the actual percent but as a way to tell me instantly which level of development I am actually looking at.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Sweed

FWIW I installed these and don't care if he shows 1-9 or 10-20. I don't take it as the actual percent but as a way to tell me instantly which level of development I am actually looking at.

I know that's the purpose... and what people who read through these details will realize.. but people who just grab it from the d/l section won't.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Izulde

That's awesome Icy, but I did notice that the LT and RT colours seem to be switched from the first screenshot to the second one. Because the first one LT looks orange-yellow and RT looks yellow, but in the modded one, LT looks yellow and RT looks orange-yellow.

It's just not the same player in the screenshoot

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Icy

It's just not the same player in the screenshoot

Fair enough. I was just making sure.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Don't know about you, Fritz, but I'm looking forward to delving into the actual game this evening.

Play, oh my no. I have an old Pentium 2 and installed a stress tool I found on a warez site. My plan is to simulate 100 people trying to play the game at once for 100 seasons.

If the game doesn't fair well in these tests I am going uninstall and DEMAND MY MONEY BACK.

oh - Icy: can you make the yellow yellower? the yellow on my P2 must not be working right since it all looks a bit pale (like the yellow of a faded yellow thing or a yellowing white thing) and I want something the color of a rain slicker. I want something DEEP YELLOW.

thanks!

[Ksyrup]

I was looking for a yellow that simulates the color of my pee after I drink 56 oz. of water in 45 minutes.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I was looking for a yellow that simulates the color of my pee after I drink 56 oz. of water in 45 minutes.

Damn, the one i was going to release simulates the color of pee after drinking 57oz, i'll create then a custom one for you with the 56oz

[Fritz]

i prefer 57oz Dr Pepper pee yellow


---
yes, I know, this is the very type of post people have been missing during my latest slow posting period.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Fritz

i prefer 57oz Dr Pepper pee yellow


---
yes, I know, this is the very type of post people have been missing during my latest slow posting period.

While you were gone, I found someone here that lives closer to me than you ...

[cartman]

Fritz, I'm surprised you haven't inquired as to the availability of the Peeps face and logo pack. It really adds to the immersion factor.

[AlexB]

As soon as Icy's letter gardes get added to gstelmacks's utility, I'm all over this game!

At the moment though I simply cannot tell what colours are what - can't work out which is light blue, blue, medium blue or blue-green tbh.

[Bonegavel]

Maybe it would be better just to have the numbers 1 - 10 on the images not for ranges but simply to know that yellow is lower than orange yellow and orange is higher than orange yellow, etc.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

No kidding. Are any of these people actually going to, you know, play the game and give impressions, or just tinker around with figuring out what itty-bitty graphics need to be modded? Don't know about you, Fritz, but I'm looking forward to delving into the actual game this evening.

I like to tinker.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

Maybe it would be better just to have the numbers 1 - 10 on the images not for ranges but simply to know that yellow is lower than orange yellow and orange is higher than orange yellow, etc.

I have already done it, a version with numbers from 1 to 10 and a version with letters from J to A.

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...09&postcount=9

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Icy

I have already done it, a version with numbers from 1 to 10 and a version with letters from J to A.

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...09&postcount=9

Icy, am I right in thinking that once gstelmack's gets updated, I can put these letter grades in without changing anything else? (Sorry for being dumb )

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Icy, am I right in thinking that once gstelmack's gets updated, I can put these letter grades in without changing anything else? (Sorry for being dumb )

You are right, with his awesome program you can choose what do you want to add.