POL: The Debt Limit

[chinaski]

Good thing the Iraq war "isnt going to cost the American taxpayer one red cent"... oh wait, its going to cost $30,000 for every man, woman and child in America.

With 9 trillion dollars we literally could have even moved every single Palestinian and Israeli family into $2.6 million homes in Beverly Hills.

Id love to hear the "true" Republican response to this. Every Republican voted for the increase, every Dem didnt. Not only did all the Republicans vote for the increase, they all voted against an amendment to study the long term effects of the increase. Where's this fiscally responsible party we hear so much about?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...090441,00.html

[QuikSand]

You're being just as absurd falling for the political stunt as those making it. Stop.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

You're being just as absurd falling for the political stunt as those making it. Stop.

Wow, you explained so much. Glad you posted! The stunt here is getting dipshits to defend the GOP.

So which stunt do you speak of? The amendment certainly wasnt, as it did nothing to stop the increase, nothing negative could happen from it.

So whats the stunt? All the Dems voting against it? No. All the Republicans were voting for it, leaving the Dems no reason to vote for it, even if they had wanted too.

So instead of focusing on the powerless minority who has zero control of this country, please explain to me why youre ok with the GOP and GWB bankrupting our country?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by chinaski

With 9 trillion dollars we literally could have even moved every single Palestinian and Israeli family into $2.6 million homes in Beverly Hills.

I can't believe nobody thought of that. What an elegant solution.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by chinaski

Wow, you explained so much. Glad you posted! The stunt here is getting dipshits to defend the GOP.

So which stunt do you speak of? The amendment certainly wasnt, as it did nothing to stop the increase, nothing negative could happen from it.

So whats the stunt? All the Dems voting against it? No. All the Republicans were voting for it, leaving the Dems no reason to vote for it, even if they had wanted too.

So instead of focusing on the powerless minority who has zero control of this country, please explain to me why youre ok with the GOP and GWB bankrupting our country?

No, what he's explaining to you is that you're reacting to a soundbite, which he (as a liberal, fyi, before you throw assinine comments about) and anyone else with an economic understanding recognizes as status quo and an effect of running government deficits, rather than some evil GOP conspiracy.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I can't believe nobody thought of that. What an elegant solution.

lol, see its just that easy!

maybe thats the stunt Quick was talking about? Its just an amusing example of what that kind of money could do... like construct 27 Eiffel Towers.. made of gold.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

No, what he's explaining to you is that you're reacting to a soundbite, which he (as a liberal, fyi, before you throw assinine comments about) and anyone else with an economic understanding recognizes as status quo and an effect of running government deficits, rather than some evil GOP conspiracy.

Oh ok, record deficits and record spending is maintaining the status quo? Bush took office, he had a budget surplus. Status quo? When we went to war, we were told the war would cost the US tax payer NOTHING. Every single red penny of our debt was created by this current administration. Wheres the Republican outrage? I would despise this party more than any other if I was a card holding Republican. Instead, they all sit quietly, voting against the very thing they say means more than all other, government spending, your tax dollars.

Im reacting to the absurb amount of spending approved by this so called fiscally responsible party, there is no soundbite. Id like to hear what a true red republican has to say about this. From what i can see, this has to be the final nail in the GOP coffin for 06.

[Mike D]

Speaking of soundbites, I thought all the liberals moved to Canada?

[chinaski]

Costs too much and I dont speak french well enough sacre blue!

Originally Posted by Dutch

Speaking of soundbites, I thought all the liberals moved to Canada?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by chinaski

Bush took office, he had no deficit.

huh? that's not true

Your handle ... where does that come from? It tickles something in my memory ... Bukowski, maybe?

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

huh? that's not true

gah sorry, ill edit my post. I meant budget surplus. Would be nice to see our deficit erased by any president, ever.

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Your handle ... where does that come from? It tickles something in my memory ... Bukowski, maybe?

youre the first on the board to catch that, well done!

[st.cronin]

It's been a long time since I read Hank.

[flere-imsaho]

I'm pretty sure we already had a thread that touched on this a week or two ago. If I remember correctly, I said there was about a 90% chance that Congress would find a way to finagle it, and about a 10% chance that the process would pull up short so that the issue of debt service and deficit spending could be addressed in a meaningful way.

The only thing that's interesting about the final vote is that it was apparently supported by all but three Republicans. For those with actual competitive re-election races coming up, this should serve as good ammunition for their opponents. Of course, not voting for the debt limit increase and letting the government falter would be an even bigger egg-on-face, politically.

In all of this I've yet to see, read or hear any reasonable discussion on how much debt the government should have, and how far out of whack we are (if at all).

[MalcPow]

For what it's worth, from Wikipedia...

As of March 2006, the total U.S. government debt is approximately $8.3 trillion ($8,283,025,171, 750 or in scientific notation $8.3×1012). Although it is a significantly large figure, the debt to gross domestic product ratio is around 2:3 which is a median figure amongst many nations.

So although our debt itself is incredibly large, it does not appear to be an apocalyptically troubling figure relative to the size of our economy. In fact the debt as a percentage of GDP was actually higher back in 1996, but we are approaching those same figures (roughly 70%). The debt was 5.67 trillion when Bush took office in 2000 by the way.

[-Mojo Jojo-]

Originally Posted by chinaski

gah sorry, ill edit my post. I meant budget surplus. Would be nice to see our deficit erased by any president, ever.

You were right the first time... He had no deficit. We did have debt...

[-Mojo Jojo-]

Originally Posted by MalcPow

So although our debt itself is incredibly large, it does not appear to be an apocalyptically troubling figure relative to the size of our economy. In fact the debt as a percentage of GDP was actually higher back in 1996, but we are approaching those same figures (roughly 70%). The debt was 5.67 trillion when Bush took office in 2000 by the way.

What happens when you add in the $44+ trillion in unfunded entitlements obligations? Changes the picture a little...

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by -Mojo Jojo-

What happens when you add in the $44+ trillion in unfunded entitlements obligations? Changes the picture a little...

But then you can't just blame it all on Iraq and the Republicans.

[JPhillips]

That 44 trillion number is misleading. I believe that's the figure that was based on a projection into infinity. Really, 44 trillion is nothing if its spread out over 100 trillion years.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by chinaski

lol, see its just that easy!

maybe thats the stunt Quick was talking about? Its just an amusing example of what that kind of money could do... like construct 27 Eiffel Towers.. made of gold.

Ooh! I call one of those. It's where I'll mount my super laser!

SI

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by MalcPow

For what it's worth, from Wikipedia...



So although our debt itself is incredibly large, it does not appear to be an apocalyptically troubling figure relative to the size of our economy. In fact the debt as a percentage of GDP was actually higher back in 1996, but we are approaching those same figures (roughly 70%). The debt was 5.67 trillion when Bush took office in 2000 by the way.

In the run up to the 2004 election there was a segment on NPR where they took several economists and asked them about the debt. Only one of the seven or so questioned had any trouble with the debt. Most of them felt that based on the productivity of the economy, that running at a deficit was actually beneficial. They did all add that it wasn't something that could be done for ever, and that the deficit could become a problem at some time in the future. Some of them felt that "that time" was off on the distant horizon. Others felt that it might be sooner, but still on a scale of several years.

I'm not a fan of deficit spending, and am all for cutting spending and paying down the deficit. I just honestly don't see an alternative with all the "new" responsibilities the government has taken on.