Houston crime and Katrina

[sachmo71]

This morning on NPR I heard the following story about a homocide spike in Houston at the end of 2005. Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5178286

The gist of the story is that an estimated 20% of these homocides involved Katrina evacuees. The mayor downplayed the link last year when the news first broke, but it seems that analysis supports the theory.

I'm interested to hear some opinons of my FOFC brethern on this. I grew up in New Orleans, and I can say that I agree with the statements that crime is almost an instituion in New Orleans, although in my experience the crime was more the petty variety or corruption, and does not support that violent crime is more prevelant. Also note that I cannot assign this to one specific ethnic group...my interpretation is that it's part of the culture as a whole.
On the flip side, if no one will allow you to work, it makes a turn to crime more likely.

In any case, adding 100k people to a city overnight is bound to have consequences, so it's possible that the crime is in direct proportion to the addition strain on the police services in the city. Perhaps the spike in crime is due more to less of direct police presence, and the fact that Katrina evacuees are involved in 20% is more attributeable to the fact that they have lost everything that they own and are more likely to commit a major crime in an effort to recover from the loss.

It's an interesting situation, and one that I hope can help people plan for future situations where you have a major, almost instant population migration from one city to another.

[Cringer]

They invovled evacuees. SO it doesn't mean evacuees committed them. They could be the victim's too. Houston citizens taking advantage of some of the evacuees, that kind of thing. And evacuee on evacuee crime, we all hate that one....

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Cringer

They invovled evacuees. SO it doesn't mean evacuees committed them. They could be the victim's too. Houston citizens taking advantage of some of the evacuees, that kind of thing. And evacuee on evacuee crime, we all hate that one....

Nope, it's not all evacuees committing the crimes, although they did mention some of the breakdown. I can't remember what they said exactly.

[albionmoonlight]

Several factors that I have heard theorized as to why this is happening. I have no idea which, if any, make sense.

1.) When you take the poorest of any city and move them to another city, you are going to see the worst of human nature come out. And the 9th Ward was the poorest of the poor.

2.) Houston's criminal element--like the criminal element in all major cities--had an understanding of territory. When you import all of the criminals and drug users from New Orleans, you added both new sellers and new customers. This added to violent crime as more people were fighting for slices of a larger pie--upsetting the balance that was there.

3.) When the evacuees were shipped out of town, almost nothing was done to distinguish between criminals and civilians. (Though I don't know what could have been done).

4.) Some of the New Orleans evacuees had a sudden influx of cash from all of the relief money. They used this cash to buy fancy clothes/shoes, etc. and started to show-up the Houston locals. When out-of-towners come in and start flashing around money and making fun of the locals, tempers will flare and people will see opportunity. Crime happens.

5.) New Orleans police knew how to handle New Orleans criminals (who the good informants are, who the ring leaders are, when to know when things were getting too serious, etc.). Houston cops know how to handle Houston criminals in the same way. But Houston cops have no way of knowing the tricks to dealing with this new criminal element.

6.) Houston is close enough to New Orleans that it has been possible for a criminal element to operate in Houston while still getting supplies, etc. from their normal channels.

[Rasmuth]

is anyone really surprised by this?

I said it from day one...Houston in the long run will regret their generosity...because the majority of those folks will stay in Houston...

if you move the ghetto from one city to another...the crime that is inherent in that community will just shift to the new community...

its a harsh reality.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Rasmuth

is anyone really surprised by this?

I said it from day one...Houston in the long run will regret their generosity...because the majority of those folks will stay in Houston...

if you move the ghetto from one city to another...the crime that is inherent in that community will just shift to the new community...

its a harsh reality.

Houston didn't have it's own poor? This is all the evacuees fault.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

5.) New Orleans police knew how to handle New Orleans criminals (who the good informants are, who the ring leaders are, when to know when things were getting too serious, etc.). Houston cops know how to handle Houston criminals in the same way. But Houston cops have no way of knowing the tricks to dealing with this new criminal element.

Another thought comes to mind. Is the Houston police more effective at fighting this crime than New Orleans? That is, is the arrest rate and crime-solving rate keeping up with the increase in crime? I generally understood that one of the problems with crime in New Orleans was that police were part of the problem sometimes and that it's been an uphill battle trying to solve that problem. If Houston is able to enforce things, would we not see an eventual drop in the crime rate as the new residents realize that Houston is not New Orleans?

I'm not sure I'm making a very clear question or point here, so forgive me if it isn't coming across.

[Rasmuth]

Houston didn't have it's own poor? This is all the evacuees fault.

I never said that...did I...

but this isn't rocket science....ghetto areas generally suffer much higher violent crime than other areas...take a ghetto population and move it somewhere else...the crime will follow...

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Several factors that I have heard theorized as to why this is happening. I have no idea which, if any, make sense.

1.) When you take the poorest of any city and move them to another city, you are going to see the worst of human nature come out. And the 9th Ward was the poorest of the poor.

2.) Houston's criminal element--like the criminal element in all major cities--had an understanding of territory. When you import all of the criminals and drug users from New Orleans, you added both new sellers and new customers. This added to violent crime as more people were fighting for slices of a larger pie--upsetting the balance that was there.

3.) When the evacuees were shipped out of town, almost nothing was done to distinguish between criminals and civilians. (Though I don't know what could have been done).

4.) Some of the New Orleans evacuees had a sudden influx of cash from all of the relief money. They used this cash to buy fancy clothes/shoes, etc. and started to show-up the Houston locals. When out-of-towners come in and start flashing around money and making fun of the locals, tempers will flare and people will see opportunity. Crime happens.

5.) New Orleans police knew how to handle New Orleans criminals (who the good informants are, who the ring leaders are, when to know when things were getting too serious, etc.). Houston cops know how to handle Houston criminals in the same way. But Houston cops have no way of knowing the tricks to dealing with this new criminal element.

6.) Houston is close enough to New Orleans that it has been possible for a criminal element to operate in Houston while still getting supplies, etc. from their normal channels.

These are really good points. I wonder how it would effect the crime rate if the evacuees were broken out into different sections of the city? The article seemed to suggest that the evacuees were sticking together in the same apartment complexes...

[JonInMiddleGA]

There was a notable incident involving a refugee in Chattanooga almost immediately after the storm and then things were kind of quiet on the subject until recently. Atlanta had a pretty horrible incident last week (28 y/o man kills 24 y/o girlfriend in a murder-suicide, also the woman's 4 yr old autistic son tied to a chair, shot in the back of the head & left for dead a 5-month old girl not physically harmed upstairs alone) that also involved a refugee couple.

Albionmoonlight already covered most of the pertinent ground in his post I think, the only thing I might add is that I can't believe any of this stuff really comes as a surprise to anyone. The only other thing that strikes me is that, if all of these incidents had taken place in New Orleans, the one involving the autistic child is probably the only one any of us would have heard about (and then only if it happened on a slow news day nationally).

[Eaglesfan27]

I think Albionmoonlight hit a lot of valid points. Also, this is a touchy subject for me. Sorry Rasmuth.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Another thought comes to mind. Is the Houston police more effective at fighting this crime than New Orleans? That is, is the arrest rate and crime-solving rate keeping up with the increase in crime? I generally understood that one of the problems with crime in New Orleans was that police were part of the problem sometimes and that it's been an uphill battle trying to solve that problem. If Houston is able to enforce things, would we not see an eventual drop in the crime rate as the new residents realize that Houston is not New Orleans?

I'm not sure I'm making a very clear question or point here, so forgive me if it isn't coming across.

New Orleans is a city with a history of crime and a slightly above average police force. 15+ years ago I would say N.O.'s police force was one of the worst in the industrial world, but things have changed a lot since then, and compared to other large cities I have been in, I would call N.O. police around average in almost all ways. I know less of Houston's police department, but from talking to Houstonian friends and from seeing Houston crime statistics and news reports, I would say Houston's police department is good, not great.

So is Houston's police department better than New Orleans'? Probably. But New Orleans' police are not as bad as the national media and others have made them out to be since Katrina. I could write a whole novel about how this country has unfairly treated the image of N.O. police.