Help me settle an argument..

Eaglesfan27 · 08-14-2004, 10:28 PM

First I need to give you all some background:

My wife and I have had very few "friend couples" to hang out with as a couple. Most of our friends are single, and either one of us or the other hangs out with them. We've had a hard time finding couples that we both enjoy hanging out with. I think it is quite difficult to balance 4 people's personalities where they really all enjoy hanging out on a consistent or semi-consistent basis. Our favorite couple to hang out with recently moved away. Tonight was one of the few rare nights where we both had off early on a Saturday and we decided to go hang out with our now favorite couple to hang out with.

We all get along fairly well. My wife is very interested in classical music and culinary arts and this blends well with our friend's interests. Meanwhile the female component of the couple is very interested in psychology as she has a pHD in psychology and her husband is very interested in almost all sports, so this meshes well with some of my interests. They are both quite intelligent and we usually have some stimulating conversations. The 4 personalities mesh and we have had great times the dozen or so times we've gotten together over the past 6-8 months since we first met them. Oh yeah, Ms. Eaglesfan first met him because he works as a bartender at the restaurant where she is a chef.

Anyway, tonight was the first time he ever got really drunk. I don't drink heavily because I feel I need every brain cell and they are dying off on their own anyway. Now, I have the occasional drink, just not to excess. This guy was slamming them back tonight. He had 3 or 4 mixed drinks at dinner. Fortunately, he let his wife drive their car home to the house. We followed them to their house to hang out there. This was probably our third time to their house. He continued to drink and started doing a couple of shots of Goldenschlager (sp?). This was over the course of an hour or two. We were relaxing and watching the Olympics. Anyway, we started talking about the meaning of the rings and such which was fine. We transitioned to talking about terrorism and the potential threat at the games. Then, he said out of the blue, "I wish Hitler had killed all of those Jews. They killed Christ and deserve to die."

I thought I might have misheard him so I said, "What did you just say?"

He repeated, "I wish Hitler had killed all of those damn Jews."

3 of my 4 grandparents are/were Jewish (and the other one was part Jewish) and I have a clearly Jewish last name. I resisted my visceral reaction to punch him in the face hard and said, "You know my grandparents were all Jewish right."

He didn't apologize. He didn't say much of anything but he slammed his glass down and stormed out of the room. His wife looked mortified (despite being fairly drunk herself.) My wife looked embarassed (she was also somewhat drunk as I was the designated driver for getting us home.)

So now we are arguing. She thinks they are a great couple and we have had so much fun with them, and we should forgive him "because he was really drunk."

I believe that alcohol only disinhibits an individual, and it doesn't make them say stupid things that they don't believe on some level. I think the alcohol unveiled his true feelings and why should I want to hang out with someone who is so incredibly prejudiced.

Does anyone think I should forgive this guy, and hang out with this couple again?

Blackadar · 08-14-2004, 10:32 PM

Scrawl a swastika in his forehead and mail him to Israel.

No, I wouldn't hang out with him again unless he initiated a sincere apology. You handled it a lot better than I would have - I'd have probably beat the shit out of him.

NoMyths · 08-14-2004, 10:34 PM

Nope. 'Course, this could just be because I've spent the last several months immersed in Holocaust literature after visiting Auschwitz in March. Changes a person to be in a room with two tons of human hair, cut from the scalps of over 40,000 murdered Jews.

JonInMiddleGA · 08-14-2004, 10:42 PM

Quote:

I believe that alcohol only disinhibits an individual, and it doesn't make them say stupid things that they don't believe on some level.

I agree with you very much on this.

Where you go from there in this situation is your call, not mine, so I'm gonna leave that in your hands.

Flasch186 · 08-14-2004, 10:43 PM

Im Jewish myself and have made a commitment to myself that it is against my values to even be around someone and thereby accept their feelings as ok. Basically saying that Im ok with them by not letting him know that they aren't ok. Now there is a line, if someone says something and I believe it is due to their lack of schooling and therefore a result of their lack of knowing any better, Ill forgive them but do my best to not hang out with them anymore. HOWEVER, what this man said involves so many different layers, the extinction of a group of people, paying some sort of homage to a mass murderer and one of the greatest scourges of the planet in our history, and then by storming out of the room basically means that he's upset becuase he thought you "were" cool but now that you have some jewish blood in you youre "different". Your wife is absolutely 100% in the wrong and by her trying to make it ok is saying that it is ok to be racist, prejudiced, and ultimately not a decent person. It is at these moments in your life that you define yourself and what you stand for...these moments happen all throughout your concious life and my friend, you are at one of these moments....so is your wife. You say that she is smart and therefore I'll bet that if you talk to her about this, she'll eventually get over the whole "damnit!! I want them to be good people" and see that he, perhaps not his wife, represents something that makes him NOT good people. I make it a point to stand up for underdogs, minorities, the downtrodden especially at moments like this....because it is at moments like this that they can either be stood up for, or smacked down again. Thank God Hitler was defeated as the world would be a different place for you, me and him.

Eaglesfan27 · 08-14-2004, 10:48 PM

Blackadar - I really like your solution. By the way, I almost did start hitting him. I'm a pacifist by nature, but this was the strongest visceral reaction I've had to hit someone in years.

NoMyths - I've always wanted to visit Auschwitz. I think it would be a very emotional trip.

Jon - Thanks for the confirmation. My wife is a little drunk right now, but she is insistant that alcohol will make you say things that you don't believe. I simply don't believe that.

I can't see how I will ever hang out with this guy again. I understand she has to work with him, and if she wants to hang out with him and his wife that is her choice. Although this makes me question her (edited to clarify: I mean the guy's wife) values, I can't condemn her based on circumstances (assuming she doesn't know that he is a prejudiced A-hole), so I would still hang out with her if my wife wanted me to do so. I can't see myself ever hanging out with him again (or interacting with him for that matter.)

I can't believe my wife wants me to forgive him and wants to hang out with them again in the future. I'm hoping she will understand my viewpoint better after sleeping off the alcohol tonight.

Suicane75 · 08-14-2004, 10:49 PM

There is no way in hell I would ever socialize with them again, and if you happen to see him again don't resist the urge to kick his ass. No offense, but your wife is nuts for even thinking about hanging out with them again.

NoMyths · 08-14-2004, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

NoMyths - I've always wanted to visit Auschwitz. I think it would be a very emotional trip.

It is an unbelievably powerful place. Sobering.

Flasch186 · 08-14-2004, 10:52 PM

i think she is just desperately wanting them to meet her need of having a "couple" friend. Im sure she'l come around. I mean, here is the frontrunner for friends and theyre hitting the first hurdle and slamming face first in the ground.....there will be more to come, theyre not the only ones.

Farrah Whitworth-Rahn · 08-14-2004, 10:57 PM

Unfortunately, I don't think you'll have fun with this couple ever again. Your relationship with this couple is forever changed. Even if you were to continue going out with this couple to make your wife happy, you wouldn't be able to have a good time. This guy's comments would constantly be in the back of your mind.

duckman · 08-14-2004, 10:59 PM

I would have hurled him through his living room window.

bbor · 08-14-2004, 11:00 PM

People actually still think like this?

This guy is a racist IMHO.

stevew · 08-14-2004, 11:03 PM

tell her that while she was in the other room he suggested doing the "swap" thing. that will scare her off of him altogether.

cthomer5000 · 08-14-2004, 11:05 PM

Trust your gut here, I feel you've got it right.

Eaglesfan27 · 08-14-2004, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbor

People actually still think like this?

This guy is a racist IMHO.

Apparently so

Flasch, I agree. We enjoy having our alone time together especially since we don't have our schedules matching up as much as we would like, but it is nice to hang out with another couple too from time to time. It's not just her that wants a "couple" friend, but I do too.

However, as Farrah said, I could never have a good time with this couple again. In fact, I don't want to do so. I love my wife very much, but I wouldn't hang out with this guy again even if she asked me to do so. I very seriously doubt she will do so, once she has time to think about this and sobers up. Also, as time passes I'm realizing my inclination to hit him isn't/wasn't just a passing impulse. Rather, I really want to go back to his house and try to beat some sense into him. I know that wouldn't work, but it doesn't change my feelings.

Suicane, I think if I saw him again, it would be hard to resist that urge. I think the potential felony charge will be the only thing stopping me from kicking his ass.

Flasch186 · 08-14-2004, 11:12 PM

yeah and unfortunately i think you would spend time in the lockup instead of that moron who deserves it.

TargetPractice6 · 08-14-2004, 11:15 PM

It wouldn't be worth the effort to kick the ass of such a pathetic ignoramus.

oliegirl · 08-14-2004, 11:17 PM

I would wait a day or two, and then revisit the subject and explain how much it hurt you and how personally you took it. Understand that she might want to continue a friendship with one or both of them, but that you don't have to be a part of the friendship. If it were me and this happened to radii I would dissolve the friendship immediately, but I don't know your wife so I can't speak for her or what I think she should do.

stevew · 08-14-2004, 11:20 PM

People tend to treat slurring jews as a "no biggie" type of situation, but i wonder if your wife would still feel the same way if he starting talking about how he wished that all the blacks would die or something.

Eaglesfan27 · 08-14-2004, 11:24 PM

My wife just came downstairs and apologized to me. Apparently she couldn't sleep while she knew that I was upset

That alone made me feel quite a bit better.

She said she is sorry she acted like a jackass as she put it. She understands why I wanted to leave and why I don't want to see him anymore. She agrees that we aren't going to interact anymore with them except for where she has to at work. As a result, I just tucked her into bed and now neither of us has to go to sleep mad at the other.

Swaggs · 08-14-2004, 11:31 PM

The other factor here is that they work together. Hopefully there are enough people and enough space that it will not make things awkward for her. That may be here biggest concern--having one of her biggest allies at work turn into someone she despises seeing.

duckman · 08-14-2004, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

My wife just came downstairs and apologized to me. Apparently she couldn't sleep while she knew that I was upset

That alone made me feel quite a bit better.

She said she is sorry she acted like a jackass as she put it. She understands why I wanted to leave and why I don't want to see him anymore. She agrees that we aren't going to interact anymore with them except for where she has to at work. As a result, I just tucked her into bed and now neither of us has to go to sleep mad at the other.

That's really good to hear. Nothing worst than being pissed at someone you love.

Swaggs · 08-14-2004, 11:33 PM

Just curious, but what do you do if he apologizes to you tomorrow?

Maple Leafs · 08-14-2004, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

My wife just came downstairs and apologized to me.

I understand each of the individual words, yet I can not comprehend this sentence.

Eaglesfan27 · 08-14-2004, 11:38 PM

She is a chef and he is a bartender, so they have relatively little direct interaction. She started talking to him because "he seemed cool and he seemed like a guy you would like." However, the waitresses have much more interaction with him than she does. She has been promoted to the head chef of her time shift, so if there was a problem at work, she would outrank him I'm pretty sure. That being said, she has enjoyed talking to him during her breaks and I'm sorry that she has lost a "friend" at work.

Swaggs, I believe that alcohol doesn't make you do/say things that you don't believe at least somewhere in your heart. It disinhibits people, it doesn't take over their minds completely. Therefore, I don't think alcohol is a valid excuse for say someone cheating on a spouse/mate. I also don't think he gets a pass on his comments because he was drunk. So, if he calls to apologize, I'll do my best to be civil. I'll accept it, but I'll let him know that I believe at some level he is a racist and I no longer wish to hang out with him.

Fonzie · 08-14-2004, 11:39 PM

I second what everyone else has said. And I agree with you Eaglesfan - those kind of comments don't just come out of nowhere. The decision to utter something, and the vehemence with which a statement is made, might be influenced by the alcohol, but not the content. He is beneath contempt, and I'm sorry you had to experience racism at his hands (mouth?). My wife and I have been in a similar spot the last few years with having mostly single friends, and it hasn't been easy, so I'm sure the events of this evening must have been disappointing on multiple levels.

For what its worth, I see problems ahead for his marriage. I have to think this guy's wife is going to haul their asses into couples' therapy pretty damn quickly - either because these attitudes are all news to her, or because he's finally letting his drinking/racism become a problem for her.

And just for the record: I'm a psychologist myself, and on behalf of the discipline I'd like to take this opportunity to declare that, while we'll have sex with most anything (except therapy clients), we generally attempt to avoid becoming life partners with individuals who are morally bankrupt, socially despicable, or are otherwise unworthy of the protoplasm they occupy. Like the racist snotnibbler Eaglesfan described.

Glengoyne · 08-14-2004, 11:39 PM

First I'd like to say that your story took quite an unexpected turn. Up until the antisemitism, I was preparing Orgy jokes.

Secondly, I'd counsel you to put it aside as best as you can, and do not jump to conclusions about what he said. See how they approach the situation tomorrow. If you get a call or a visit, the relationship may be salvagable. You firmly believe that alcohol won't make people say things they don't believe. I agree with you, but I'd also say give him a chance to account for what he did. After that, you can decide whether or not he is a person of character or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

but this was the strongest visceral reaction I've had to hit someone in years.

The last time I felt that way I was really drunk and at a party where I was talking with this guy about the Raiders. The subject turned to Marcus Allen, and he declared that Allen was a pussy for betraying the Raiders and going to the Chiefs.

It occurred to me that I must be really damn drunk, 'cause I wanted to deck the bastard.

So be a bit glad you weren't drunk, because you had a much better reason to hit him than I did.

Fonzie · 08-14-2004, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I understand each of the individual words, yet I can not comprehend this sentence.

Remember, she was drunk.

Eaglesfan27 · 08-14-2004, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fonzie

I second what everyone else has said. And I agree with you Eaglesfan - those kind of comments don't just come out of nowhere. The decision to utter something, and the vehemence with which a statement is made, might be influenced by the alcohol, but not the content. He is beneath contempt, and I'm sorry you had to experience racism at his hands (mouth?). My wife and I have been in a similar spot the last few years with having mostly single friends, and it hasn't been easy, so I'm sure the events of this evening must have been disappointing on multiple levels.

For what its worth, I see problems ahead for his marriage. I have to think this guy's wife is going to haul their asses into couples' therapy pretty damn quickly - either because these attitudes are all news to her, or because he's finally letting his drinking/racism become a problem for her.

And just for the record: I'm a psychologist myself, and on behalf of the discipline I'd like to take this opportunity to declare that, while we'll have sex with most anything (except therapy clients), we generally attempt to avoid becoming life partners with individuals who are morally bankrupt, socially despicable, or are otherwise unworthy of the protoplasm they occupy. Like the racist snotnibbler Eaglesfan described.

Cool, I didn't know you were a psychologist. Despite the battle over prescribing privlidges here in Louisiana, many of my best friends are psychologists.

Eaglesfan27 · 08-14-2004, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

First I'd like to say that your story took quite an unexpected turn. Up until the antisemitism, I was preparing Orgy jokes.

Secondly, I'd counsel you to put it aside as best as you can, and do not jump to conclusions about what he said. See how they approach the situation tomorrow. If you get a call or a visit, the relationship may be salvagable. You firmly believe that alcohol won't make people say things they don't believe. I agree with you, but I'd also say give him a chance to account for what he did. After that, you can decide whether or not he is a person of character or not.

The last time I felt that way I was really drunk and at a party where I was talking with this guy about the Raiders. The subject turned to Marcus Allen, and he declared that Allen was a pussy for betraying the Raiders and going to the Chiefs.

It occurred to me that I must be really damn drunk, 'cause I wanted to deck the bastard.

So be a bit glad you weren't drunk, because you had a much better reason to hit him than I did.

Thanks for a good laugh (the part about Marcus Allen)

As I was writing it, the thought that some people thought it was going to be an orgy story vaguely crossed my mind.

CamEdwards · 08-14-2004, 11:48 PM

I think you handled it in the most adult and responsible way you could, Eaglesfan.

hukarez · 08-14-2004, 11:51 PM

...wow. I am so glad that I'm not the only one who drinks Goldschlager! Most folks I know aren't particular to that hard liquor. Still, it was the first "hard liquor" shot that I ever took back at UCSB.

Waking up passed out in another dorm, and in another room was the most head splitting experience ever. Memories!

Fonzie · 08-14-2004, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Cool, I didn't know you were a psychologist. Despite the battle over prescribing privlidges here in Louisiana, many of my best friends are psychologists.

That ugly battle is going on everywhere, and I for one hate what the pro-prescription priviledge psychologists are trying to do. I could go into a frothing diatribe about the problems with that effort, but this thread deserves better than a threadjacking that only two people would really find interesting. So let's get back to the racist-bashing.

Eaglesfan27 · 08-14-2004, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fonzie

That ugly battle is going on everywhere, and I for one hate what the pro-prescription priviledge psychologists are trying to do. I could go into a frothing diatribe about the problems with that effort, but this thread deserves better than a threadjacking that only two people would really find interesting. So let's get back to the racist-bashing.

Agreed. Although I'd be interested in hearing your views about the problems at some point. As you probably know, I'm a psychiatrist and in Louisiana we have the joy of being the 2nd state to grant prescribing to "medical psychologists." But back to the racist-bashing in this thread.

Flasch186 · 08-15-2004, 12:01 AM

Nice to know that you dont have to carry the weight anymore....very cool of her.

ISiddiqui · 08-15-2004, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Does anyone think I should forgive this guy, and hang out with this couple again?

Hell no! Being drunk simply lowers your inhibitions and a LOT of what you say when intoxicated is what you really feel. If it was something about Israel, whatever, but saying that all Jews should have been killed? That's WAAY over the line, drunk or not!

BigJohn&TheLions · 08-15-2004, 12:16 AM

Call him and tell him that you understand about the other night and think you can hang out again. Get him good and liquored up. Bring up the statement, and tell him that Hitler had it all wrong. The Jews aren't the problem. He should have gone after (insert bastard's religion here.) In fact, if he's Catholic, Hitler didn't like them too much either! Oh yeah, take a roll of nickles, put it in your hand as you say this, then take his jaw off...

sabotai · 08-15-2004, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

As a result, I just tucked her into bed and now neither of us has to go to sleep mad at the other.

...tucked her into bed?

Please tell me that's slang for you had mad, passionate, drunk sex with her. I mean, if you can't get laid by your wife when she's been drinking, I think someone needs to bump that marriage sex thread for you.

mattwakeman · 08-15-2004, 02:12 AM

A saying:

The naive always forgive and forget,
The stupid never forgive and forget,
The wise forgive but never forget.

albionmoonlight · 08-15-2004, 07:28 AM

A PhD is married to this guy? Wow. You handled the situation very well. I echo most of this thread.

EagleFan--At what resturant does your wife work?

Buzzbee · 08-15-2004, 07:48 AM

Albionmoonlight now has a Mrs. Albion. Perhaps an EaglesFans/Albions get together might be in order.

Noop · 08-15-2004, 07:53 AM

That was not the worst crime in history.

I would avoid all contact with him.

Honolulu_Blue · 08-15-2004, 08:48 AM

I agree with the rest. No reason to hangout with this guy.

hhiipp · 08-15-2004, 09:40 AM

Makeup sex pics plz, k thx.

albionmoonlight · 08-15-2004, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

Albionmoonlight now has a Mrs. Albion. Perhaps an EaglesFans/Albions get together might be in order.

Would be cool had we not just moved to North Carolina.

Buccaneer · 08-15-2004, 10:12 AM

I disagree with the earlier trend in this thread, including the silly macho talk. What if it were your parents that said this under the same circumstances or god forbid, your wife? People, including friends and loved ones, say stupid things. Each of one us say stupid things and I have believed that for every stupid thing I say (whether to my wife, parents or friends), I deserve one back. Relationships with others do require a thick skin (that's my #1 advice for marriage) and forgiveness. Yes, it is hard to forget but relationships of all kind do require a series of compromise and forgiveness. We are supposed to love one another.

In this particular case, it was right to have left under the circumstances. It is also important that everyone knows why (which I think it's obvious to all). If your wife really enjoys their company and wants to continue, including on occassion, involving as couples, then that's where a compromise on your part comes in. It is true that you would not feel the same as you did before but you can still go along if your wife desires and go through the motions. Eventually, the relationship might whither or might become stronger because of forgiveness and maturity in lessons learned. It is easy, as I have learned, to shelter oneselves from everyone but part of life and wisdom is learn how to accept, love, forgive and compromise for sake of having relationships. I have been learning this lesson very recently.

kcchief19 · 08-15-2004, 10:43 AM

I agree with Bucc's sentiment, but I think this crossed a line. It's not like Mrs. Eaglesfan is asking him to hang out with a couple who likes to go to watch off-shore yacht racing and he hates it -- she would be asking him to hang out with a man who said he wished he was dead. That is not a compromise he should have to make, it's a compromise she should have to make. Her enjoyment from mingling with this couple does not out weight the pain this would cause him, and if she thought that it did then I would worry about here.

I'm sure on a conscious and/or subconscious level she's worried how a falling out like this might affect her work relationships. You hate to have a malcontent who may bad-mouth you to other employees for personal reasons. Unfortunately, it's also a reason why I have always tried to limit personal involvement with my coworkers -- I might find out I hate these people and can't work with them anymore.

I would never feel right about this guy, but it's possible given some time your feelings won't be as strong as they are now.

On a side note -- anybody waiting for Bragadociousssss to show up and take the other guy's side?

Maple Leafs · 08-15-2004, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

She thinks they are a great couple and we have had so much fun with them, and we should forgive him "because he was really drunk."

On a related note, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who has a wife who is hell-bent on acquiring "couple friends". While I've never been a situation like Eagle's, my wife will tolerate any amount of wasted evenings and outright boredom to collect a couple friend. Most of our friends are either primarily mine (i.e. drunken, goofy, frat-house type sports fans) or hers (i.e. losers^H^H^H^H^H^H um, people with different social priorities than mine). When we find an actual couple made up of people we can both tolerate, we must appease these people at all costs, apparently.

JonInMiddleGA · 08-15-2004, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

When we find an actual couple made up of people we can both tolerate, we must appease these people at all costs, apparently.

.

Apparently this is not as uncommon a situation as I've begun to think after 10 yrs of marriage. "Tolerate" is about as much as seen managed in that time, another couple whose company we both enjoy equally really just doesn't seem to be realistic.

Buzzbee · 08-15-2004, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Would be cool had we not just moved to North Carolina.

You would think I would've known that with the IHOF absence. Where's that dunce cap.

08-14-2004, 10:34 PM	#3
NoMyths Poet in Residence Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Charleston, SC	Nope. 'Course, this could just be because I've spent the last several months immersed in Holocaust literature after visiting Auschwitz in March. Changes a person to be in a room with two tons of human hair, cut from the scalps of over 40,000 murdered Jews. Last edited by NoMyths : 08-14-2004 at 10:34 PM.

08-14-2004, 10:43 PM	#5
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	Im Jewish myself and have made a commitment to myself that it is against my values to even be around someone and thereby accept their feelings as ok. Basically saying that Im ok with them by not letting him know that they aren't ok. Now there is a line, if someone says something and I believe it is due to their lack of schooling and therefore a result of their lack of knowing any better, Ill forgive them but do my best to not hang out with them anymore. HOWEVER, what this man said involves so many different layers, the extinction of a group of people, paying some sort of homage to a mass murderer and one of the greatest scourges of the planet in our history, and then by storming out of the room basically means that he's upset becuase he thought you "were" cool but now that you have some jewish blood in you youre "different". Your wife is absolutely 100% in the wrong and by her trying to make it ok is saying that it is ok to be racist, prejudiced, and ultimately not a decent person. It is at these moments in your life that you define yourself and what you stand for...these moments happen all throughout your concious life and my friend, you are at one of these moments....so is your wife. You say that she is smart and therefore I'll bet that if you talk to her about this, she'll eventually get over the whole "damnit!! I want them to be good people" and see that he, perhaps not his wife, represents something that makes him NOT good people. I make it a point to stand up for underdogs, minorities, the downtrodden especially at moments like this....because it is at moments like this that they can either be stood up for, or smacked down again. Thank God Hitler was defeated as the world would be a different place for you, me and him. __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL

08-14-2004, 10:48 PM	#6
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	Blackadar - I really like your solution. By the way, I almost did start hitting him. I'm a pacifist by nature, but this was the strongest visceral reaction I've had to hit someone in years. NoMyths - I've always wanted to visit Auschwitz. I think it would be a very emotional trip. Jon - Thanks for the confirmation. My wife is a little drunk right now, but she is insistant that alcohol will make you say things that you don't believe. I simply don't believe that. I can't see how I will ever hang out with this guy again. I understand she has to work with him, and if she wants to hang out with him and his wife that is her choice. Although this makes me question her (edited to clarify: I mean the guy's wife) values, I can't condemn her based on circumstances (assuming she doesn't know that he is a prejudiced A-hole), so I would still hang out with her if my wife wanted me to do so. I can't see myself ever hanging out with him again (or interacting with him for that matter.) I can't believe my wife wants me to forgive him and wants to hang out with them again in the future. I'm hoping she will understand my viewpoint better after sleeping off the alcohol tonight. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen. Last edited by Eaglesfan27 : 08-14-2004 at 10:52 PM.

08-14-2004, 10:49 PM	#7
Suicane75 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ	There is no way in hell I would ever socialize with them again, and if you happen to see him again don't resist the urge to kick his ass. No offense, but your wife is nuts for even thinking about hanging out with them again. __________________ Jake "The Snake" Roberts

08-14-2004, 10:52 PM	#9
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	i think she is just desperately wanting them to meet her need of having a "couple" friend. Im sure she'l come around. I mean, here is the frontrunner for friends and theyre hitting the first hurdle and slamming face first in the ground.....there will be more to come, theyre not the only ones. __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL

08-14-2004, 10:32 PM	#2
Blackadar Retired Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fantasyland	Scrawl a swastika in his forehead and mail him to Israel. No, I wouldn't hang out with him again unless he initiated a sincere apology. You handled it a lot better than I would have - I'd have probably beat the shit out of him.

08-14-2004, 10:57 PM	#10
Farrah Whitworth-Rahn Red-Headed Vixen Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ	Unfortunately, I don't think you'll have fun with this couple ever again. Your relationship with this couple is forever changed. Even if you were to continue going out with this couple to make your wife happy, you wouldn't be able to have a good time. This guy's comments would constantly be in the back of your mind.

08-14-2004, 11:00 PM	#12
bbor Pro Starter Join Date: May 2001 Location: toronto	People actually still think like this? This guy is a racist IMHO. __________________ Pumpy Tudors Now that I've cracked and made that admission, I wonder if I'm only a couple of steps away from wanting to tongue-kiss Jaromir Jagr and give Bobby Clarke a blowjob.

08-14-2004, 11:03 PM	#13
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	tell her that while she was in the other room he suggested doing the "swap" thing. that will scare her off of him altogether.

08-14-2004, 11:12 PM	#16
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	yeah and unfortunately i think you would spend time in the lockup instead of that moron who deserves it. __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL

08-14-2004, 11:15 PM	#17
TargetPractice6 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lexington, KY	It wouldn't be worth the effort to kick the ass of such a pathetic ignoramus.

08-14-2004, 11:17 PM	#18
oliegirl Head Cheerleader Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Caught somewhere between Raising Hell and Amazing Grace...	I would wait a day or two, and then revisit the subject and explain how much it hurt you and how personally you took it. Understand that she might want to continue a friendship with one or both of them, but that you don't have to be a part of the friendship. If it were me and this happened to radii I would dissolve the friendship immediately, but I don't know your wife so I can't speak for her or what I think she should do.

08-14-2004, 11:20 PM	#19
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	People tend to treat slurring jews as a "no biggie" type of situation, but i wonder if your wife would still feel the same way if he starting talking about how he wished that all the blacks would die or something.

08-14-2004, 11:24 PM	#20
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	My wife just came downstairs and apologized to me. Apparently she couldn't sleep while she knew that I was upset That alone made me feel quite a bit better. She said she is sorry she acted like a jackass as she put it. She understands why I wanted to leave and why I don't want to see him anymore. She agrees that we aren't going to interact anymore with them except for where she has to at work. As a result, I just tucked her into bed and now neither of us has to go to sleep mad at the other. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

08-14-2004, 11:31 PM	#21
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Almost Heaven	The other factor here is that they work together. Hopefully there are enough people and enough space that it will not make things awkward for her. That may be here biggest concern--having one of her biggest allies at work turn into someone she despises seeing. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

08-14-2004, 11:33 PM	#23
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Almost Heaven	Just curious, but what do you do if he apologizes to you tomorrow? __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

08-14-2004, 11:38 PM	#25
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	She is a chef and he is a bartender, so they have relatively little direct interaction. She started talking to him because "he seemed cool and he seemed like a guy you would like." However, the waitresses have much more interaction with him than she does. She has been promoted to the head chef of her time shift, so if there was a problem at work, she would outrank him I'm pretty sure. That being said, she has enjoyed talking to him during her breaks and I'm sorry that she has lost a "friend" at work. Swaggs, I believe that alcohol doesn't make you do/say things that you don't believe at least somewhere in your heart. It disinhibits people, it doesn't take over their minds completely. Therefore, I don't think alcohol is a valid excuse for say someone cheating on a spouse/mate. I also don't think he gets a pass on his comments because he was drunk. So, if he calls to apologize, I'll do my best to be civil. I'll accept it, but I'll let him know that I believe at some level he is a racist and I no longer wish to hang out with him. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen. Last edited by Eaglesfan27 : 08-14-2004 at 11:40 PM.

08-14-2004, 11:39 PM	#26
Fonzie Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Illinois	I second what everyone else has said. And I agree with you Eaglesfan - those kind of comments don't just come out of nowhere. The decision to utter something, and the vehemence with which a statement is made, might be influenced by the alcohol, but not the content. He is beneath contempt, and I'm sorry you had to experience racism at his hands (mouth?). My wife and I have been in a similar spot the last few years with having mostly single friends, and it hasn't been easy, so I'm sure the events of this evening must have been disappointing on multiple levels. For what its worth, I see problems ahead for his marriage. I have to think this guy's wife is going to haul their asses into couples' therapy pretty damn quickly - either because these attitudes are all news to her, or because he's finally letting his drinking/racism become a problem for her. And just for the record: I'm a psychologist myself, and on behalf of the discipline I'd like to take this opportunity to declare that, while we'll have sex with most anything (except therapy clients), we generally attempt to avoid becoming life partners with individuals who are morally bankrupt, socially despicable, or are otherwise unworthy of the protoplasm they occupy. Like the racist snotnibbler Eaglesfan described.

08-14-2004, 11:48 PM	#31
CamEdwards Stadium Announcer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Burke, VA	I think you handled it in the most adult and responsible way you could, Eaglesfan. __________________ I don't want the world. I just want your half.

08-14-2004, 11:51 PM	#32
hukarez College Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Chula Vista, CA	...wow. I am so glad that I'm not the only one who drinks Goldschlager! Most folks I know aren't particular to that hard liquor. Still, it was the first "hard liquor" shot that I ever took back at UCSB. Waking up passed out in another dorm, and in another room was the most head splitting experience ever. Memories! __________________ ...what we have here is a man who looks like Tarzan, but fights like Jane! My VG collection \| Xbox 360 Gamertag: ManThol \| PS3 Network ID: hukarez Doce Pares International - San Diego Council Filipino Martial Arts Digest tweet tweet twitter

08-15-2004, 12:01 AM	#35
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	Nice to know that you dont have to carry the weight anymore....very cool of her. __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL

08-15-2004, 12:16 AM	#37
BigJohn&TheLions College Benchwarmer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New York	Call him and tell him that you understand about the other night and think you can hang out again. Get him good and liquored up. Bring up the statement, and tell him that Hitler had it all wrong. The Jews aren't the problem. He should have gone after (insert bastard's religion here.) In fact, if he's Catholic, Hitler didn't like them too much either! Oh yeah, take a roll of nickles, put it in your hand as you say this, then take his jaw off... __________________ In the immortal words of a great alcoholic, "Can't we all just get along?"

08-15-2004, 02:12 AM	#39
mattwakeman Mascot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Cold, old England	A saying: The naive always forgive and forget, The stupid never forgive and forget, The wise forgive but never forget. __________________ Carpe Diem

08-15-2004, 07:28 AM	#40
albionmoonlight Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	A PhD is married to this guy? Wow. You handled the situation very well. I echo most of this thread. EagleFan--At what resturant does your wife work?

08-15-2004, 07:48 AM	#41
Buzzbee College Starter Join Date: Jun 2002	Albionmoonlight now has a Mrs. Albion. Perhaps an EaglesFans/Albions get together might be in order. __________________ Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. - Lou Holtz

08-15-2004, 07:53 AM	#42
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	That was not the worst crime in history. I would avoid all contact with him. __________________ You cannot enjoy outstanding success in life without power, and you can never enjoy power without sufficient personality to influence other people to co-operate with you in the spirit of harmony ~ Napoleon Hill

08-15-2004, 08:48 AM	#43
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	I agree with the rest. No reason to hangout with this guy.

08-15-2004, 09:40 AM	#44
hhiipp College Prospect Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: OH	Makeup sex pics plz, k thx.

08-15-2004, 10:12 AM	#46
Buccaneer Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	I disagree with the earlier trend in this thread, including the silly macho talk. What if it were your parents that said this under the same circumstances or god forbid, your wife? People, including friends and loved ones, say stupid things. Each of one us say stupid things and I have believed that for every stupid thing I say (whether to my wife, parents or friends), I deserve one back. Relationships with others do require a thick skin (that's my #1 advice for marriage) and forgiveness. Yes, it is hard to forget but relationships of all kind do require a series of compromise and forgiveness. We are supposed to love one another. In this particular case, it was right to have left under the circumstances. It is also important that everyone knows why (which I think it's obvious to all). If your wife really enjoys their company and wants to continue, including on occassion, involving as couples, then that's where a compromise on your part comes in. It is true that you would not feel the same as you did before but you can still go along if your wife desires and go through the motions. Eventually, the relationship might whither or might become stronger because of forgiveness and maturity in lessons learned. It is easy, as I have learned, to shelter oneselves from everyone but part of life and wisdom is learn how to accept, love, forgive and compromise for sake of having relationships. I have been learning this lesson very recently.

08-15-2004, 10:43 AM	#47
kcchief19 Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Kansas City, MO	I agree with Bucc's sentiment, but I think this crossed a line. It's not like Mrs. Eaglesfan is asking him to hang out with a couple who likes to go to watch off-shore yacht racing and he hates it -- she would be asking him to hang out with a man who said he wished he was dead. That is not a compromise he should have to make, it's a compromise she should have to make. Her enjoyment from mingling with this couple does not out weight the pain this would cause him, and if she thought that it did then I would worry about here. I'm sure on a conscious and/or subconscious level she's worried how a falling out like this might affect her work relationships. You hate to have a malcontent who may bad-mouth you to other employees for personal reasons. Unfortunately, it's also a reason why I have always tried to limit personal involvement with my coworkers -- I might find out I hate these people and can't work with them anymore. I would never feel right about this guy, but it's possible given some time your feelings won't be as strong as they are now. On a side note -- anybody waiting for Bragadociousssss to show up and take the other guy's side?

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