A. Walker traded to the Mavs

FF · 10-20-2003, 10:05 AM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1642156

Antoine for LaFrentz, welsch, and mills

why did the celts do this?

Alan T · 10-20-2003, 10:11 AM

The Celtics are dead in the water salary cap wise thanks for the wonderful trade that brought in Vin Baker. In my opinion Walker was one of two decent players on their team and they now have moved him to try to cut some salary, but now have an entire offense to rest on Paul Pierce... I think its a poor move for the C's....

Of course as someone who I won't name (Celeval) reminded me, it can't be any worse than my Hawks last year..

KevinNU7 · 10-20-2003, 10:18 AM

LaFrentz is making over $12M a year! Not sure how this moves cuts down the cap

FF · 10-20-2003, 10:19 AM

yeah, i think the mavs signed lafrentz to a huge contract. i dont know how this is helping the celts

"LaFrentz signed a $69 million, five-year deal before last season"

JAG · 10-20-2003, 10:23 AM

This looks like a really bonehead move by the Celts. One hope I held out was that the trade was pending league approval.

Celeval · 10-20-2003, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alan T
Of course as someone who I won't name (Celeval) reminded me, it can't be any worse than my Hawks last year..

Last year? I was talking about this year.

vex · 10-20-2003, 10:38 AM

That's my Mavs.

VPI97 · 10-20-2003, 10:38 AM

Trading the black hole known as Antoine Walker can only result in good things for the Celtics.

bamcgee · 10-20-2003, 10:40 AM

It certainly is weird. LaFrentz isn't much of a center, and he certainly doesn't match Walker's production.

Rich1033 · 10-20-2003, 10:51 AM

Wow. It says alot that the best they can get for Walker is an overpaid big man who cant play down low.

HornedFrog Purple · 10-20-2003, 10:53 AM

Well we needed another Antoine on the team and he was the best available.

This trade makes no sense, but then again neither did the one for Jamison.

I am glad LaFrentz is gone. He sucked.

If Tony Delk wears 00 here I will puke.

vex · 10-20-2003, 10:54 AM

I think this trade makes sense. I just don't know about Antwan Jamison.

HornedFrog Purple · 10-20-2003, 11:06 AM

Danny Fortson is the best part of that deal. If he is healthy then the Mavs made out like bandits. Then they turn around with the extras from that deal and manage to get Walker.

The only problem being Walker and Jamison are the same type of player. If the plan is to move Dirk to the 3 then Dirk is unguardable. But neither of these guys rebound as good as Dirk does.

bamcgee · 10-20-2003, 11:11 AM

Fortson is a dog. You'll see.

sort of a Rodman without the defense and the hair.

44Niners · 10-20-2003, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
Danny Fortson is the best part of that deal. If he is healthy then the Mavs made out like bandits. Then they turn around with the extras from that deal and manage to get Walker.

you say that now - but Fortson is trully one of the biggest frauds in the NBA. His rebound stats are so gaudy because he plays zero defense and only cares about how many rebounds he gets AND he is a giant cancer in the locker room.

plus ask yourself this - If Fortson isn't good enought to start for the sorry-ass warriors, what team is he good enough to start for?

HornedFrog Purple · 10-20-2003, 11:21 AM

Well a couple of years ago people were saying the same thing about Van Exel: cancer, only cares about his stats etc.

I can only retort by saying if Fortson is garbage at least he is garbage that will rebound as opposed to Shawn Bradley who is complete garbage that does nothing.

cincyreds · 10-20-2003, 11:46 AM

I have been a Mavs fan since they entered the league, so this trade is a bit puzzling.

I am happy they traded the softee LaFrentz who was a disappointment.

Man, Nowitzki, Jamison and now Walker???

Have to wait see if anyone complains about PT.

Balldog · 10-20-2003, 11:59 AM

Is there any team in the East that could make the playoffs in the West this year? Detroit or Indiana....maybe duke it out for the 8th seed.

JeeberD · 10-20-2003, 12:29 PM

Wow, woke up to the radio telling me about this trade. Crazy...

So if the Mavs are going to start Fortson at center, who is going to be coming off of the bench?

One thing is for sure, this team will be able to score at will. There should be at least one of the players every game who is hot and making everything he throws up. Just wonder how many points they're going to give up every game...

Neuqua · 10-20-2003, 12:30 PM

I think Antoine Walker is one of the most overrated players of all time. I'm not sure exactly how much this deal helps the Celts but it seems they get a bit better defensively atleast. Although it now looks like Pierce just may lead the league in scoring this year if he wants to.

JeeberD · 10-20-2003, 12:32 PM

Dola-

Heh, I just heard someone refer to the Mavs as the Texas Tech of the NBA. Sounds like an apt comparison...

Alan T · 10-20-2003, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neuqua
I think Antoine Walker is one of the most overrated players of all time. I'm not sure exactly how much this deal helps the Celts but it seems they get a bit better defensively atleast. Although it now looks like Pierce just may lead the league in scoring this year if he wants to.

I am not as sure about this.. I am not super high on Walker, but one thing he did do was help take pressure away from pierce.. Last year in the time when Pierce was out on the floor without Walker, he was shut down far too often. I really do not understand this move from the Celtics perspective and think they might have just knocked themselves out of the playoffs.

Butter_of_69 · 10-20-2003, 12:40 PM

Predicting the future:

Here's tonight's stats, as the Mavs fall to Sacramento 195-147:

Antoine Walker goes an astounding 15-67, including 10-49 from beyond the 3-point line!

He only made about 20%, but did make 10 3-pointers! Way to go.... I guess?

VPI97 · 10-20-2003, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alan T
Last year in the time when Pierce was out on the floor without Walker, he was shut down far too often.

But a lot of time when they were both on the court together, Pierce was shut down by Antoine's habit of jacking up three pointers from near mid court.

HornedFrog Purple · 10-20-2003, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Butter_of_69
Predicting the future:

Here's tonight's stats, as the Mavs fall to Sacramento 195-147:

Antoine Walker goes an astounding 15-67, including 10-49 from beyond the 3-point line!

He only made about 20%, but did make 10 3-pointers! Way to go.... I guess?

Paul Westhead retired man.

Butter_of_69 · 10-20-2003, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
Paul Westhead retired man.

Someone should inform Antoine.

The_herd · 10-20-2003, 12:46 PM

I don't think Walker is necisarrily overrated, he's got incredible talent. He handles the ball well, rebounds, and can get to the basket, he's Don Nelson's ideal player. However, his love for the 3 is what kills him. He's one of the countless players that have fallen in love with shooting the 3 even though they don't really have any business being out there. He also has always looked like he could stand to lose 20 or so pounds. If he shows up to Dallas in shape and leaves the 3's to Nowitzki and Nash, he's the type of player that could put the Mav's over the top.

All they need to do now is find at least 1 guy that can guard someone.

HornedFrog Purple · 10-20-2003, 12:48 PM

Quote:

All they need to do now is find at least 1 guy that can guard someone.

Najera will play a box-and-1 on everyone.

HornedFrog Purple · 10-20-2003, 12:51 PM

dola...

You realize by keeping an NBA thread on the top, we are pissing off 99.354% of FOFC.

vex · 10-20-2003, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
Najera will play a box-and-1 on everyone.

Some good OU defense

The_herd · 10-20-2003, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
dola...

You realize by keeping an NBA thread on the top, we are pissing off 99.354% of FOFC.

If they allowed the "I feel like a threadkiller" thread to be at the top for god only knows how many months I think they'll get over it.

VPI97 · 10-20-2003, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_herd
If he shows up to Dallas in shape and leaves the 3's to Nowitzki and Nash

LOL!!

The_herd · 10-20-2003, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VPI97
LOL!!

That IF was supposed to be in bold.

Neuqua · 10-20-2003, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VPI97
But a lot of time when they were both on the court together, Pierce was shut down by Antoine's habit of jacking up three pointers from near mid court.

That's why I think this can be a good move. Walker is no doubt a great talent, I loved his game his rookie year but as others have said he just relies on that 3pt shot far too often. Pierce is one of the 5 best players in the league in my opinion, and I feel he has a better offensive game than even Kobe and Tracy. If O'brien can come up with a good gameplan around him then I think the Celtics will be fine. LaFrentz may not have done much in the West but now he's coming to the East where no more than 3 teams have legitimate inside scorers.

Neuqua · 10-20-2003, 01:38 PM

dola...

I'm a bit confused about one thing. Aren't the big contracts signed by those in the '96 draft (Iverson, Marbury, Kittles, Walker) expiring soon? I do not remember hearing the Celts extending Walker's contract, but I may have just missed it. That makes the move a bit confusing if you want to look at it from a financial perspective.

Although Mills is in the last year of his big deal so I can see why Boston wanted him.

TroyF · 10-20-2003, 01:41 PM

I like this move from the Celtics perspective.

LaFrenz is garbage. Thing is, who in the East is going to be able to match up with him? He may actually average 20 points a game in that conference.

Walker? What the hell are the Mavs thinking? As someone else said, if he does this and that and yadda yadda yadda, he'll be a great addition.

Yeah, the guy's one of the most talented players in the leage. He hasn't done anything to indicate he'll ever use that talent. On defense, he's worse than bad. Oh well, at least I like to watch Dallas games, something I can't say about very many teams in the league.

TroyF

Neuqua · 10-20-2003, 01:51 PM

Oh yeah,

I do not get the move at all from the Mavs perspective. They add another scorer to what was already the best scoring team in the league. And then they are going to wonder where they went wrong in the playoffs. If the Mavs had acquired someone like Adonal Foyle instead of Jamison, I think the team itself would better significantly. They may not score as many points but I think it'd better their chances to make the NBA Finals.

Franklinnoble · 10-20-2003, 01:59 PM

Paging Bill Simmons....

This should be just the thing for taking his mind of the BoSox for a while.

Tasan · 10-20-2003, 02:03 PM

I think Walker will be Nelson's super sixth man. I don't think he'll start, but he'll get a lot of minutes replacing just about all the positions on the floor.

Sublime · 10-20-2003, 03:52 PM

Granted the 3's is just shamefull, but before Obie took over the C's he was no where near sending up that many threes! Antoine is a great player, he can handle the ball like few forwards, he is a great passer, and has a lot of heart! Needless to say, this deal pisses me off!! Hopefully the C's can trade Eric Williams and Chris Mills to bring in some depth. Both of them are on their last year of their contracts.

sterlingice · 10-20-2003, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tasan
I think Walker will be Nelson's super sixth man. I don't think he'll start, but he'll get a lot of minutes replacing just about all the positions on the floor.

I just don't see it- he'd throw a temper tantrum the likes of which few have ever seen.

Gotta love how Lafrentz and his contract are being passed around like... well, I just won't go there.

This trade just has me shaking my head for both sides. Does Dallas plan on scoring 140 and giving up 130 every game? The Celts needed a second scoring threat because this leaves Pierce and... and... and... um...

EDIT: In the end, I think the Mavs win out on this deal because with only one big name trading places, the team that gets the good player almost always is better off for it.

SI

Tex Schramm · 10-20-2003, 08:32 PM

I don't see how this can possibly be a bad move for the Mavs. LaFrentz really didn't do much while he was in Dallas, and in games when he did he almost always ended up fouling out early anyway. If you remember, last year he split time with Bradley because he wasn't playing well enough to start full-time. He even complained that he "wasn't a true center" and wasn't able to defend the bigger guys out West, and was often publicly criticized by Don Nelson. He wasn't even beginning to live up to that outrageous contract he got from Cuban.
So, dealing him for anyone even remotely good is a positive move for Dallas. Dealing him (essentially) for not only an All-Star caliber player, as well as another backup option at point guard, is a home run in my opinion. The Mavs resigned themselves to upgrading their frontcourt scoring this offseason after they lost out on Mourning, and they've done that. When I look at this team compared to last year's, there is no comparison. Dallas acquired two All-Star players and hardly gave up anything--Van Exel's departure is at least partially offset by Travis Best and Tony Delk being here to give Nash some rest during the season.
Now Nelson can conceivably field a starting rotation of:
PG: Steve Nash
SG: Michael Finley
SF: Antawn Jamison/Antoine Walker
PF: Antoine Walker/Antawn Jamison/Dirk Nowitzki
C: Dirk Nowitzki/Danny Fortson (Nelson has said he'll consider using Dirk at center for mismatches)

Who do you guard? That's a matchup nightmare for any team. I think Dallas wins big time with this trade. Plus, if things don't work out, now they've got substantial flexibility to make another deal for someone else, maybe a tough inside player, later on down the road.

Easy Mac · 10-20-2003, 08:35 PM

That has to be the greatest defensive team ever. I don't even think God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Mary and Joseph could beat this team.

Tex Schramm · 10-20-2003, 08:48 PM

Who ever said anything about defense? The Mavs haven't ever played any, so why start now? Their defense was just as bad last year, but they did pretty well considering. Everyone's so high on Sacramento, but their defense is only a little better than Dallas's due to Doug Christie.

Tasan · 10-21-2003, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sterlingice
I just don't see it- he'd throw a temper tantrum the likes of which few have ever seen.

Thats what everone said about Nick when he got to Dallas, and he took his roll pretty good. I think Walker will to, once to sees what kind of talent is around him.

daedalus · 10-21-2003, 01:24 AM

Hrm. Odd, huh?

A couple of things, though . . .

Van Exel averaged almost 30 minutes last year. That's close to starter minutes which quite possibly was a big reason why he didn't whine quite as expected.

Defense? Defense? We're talking Don Nelson here.

Show some love please, Paul Westhead will be the coach of the Long Beach Jam of a new American Basketball Association. (Alright, so I live in Long Beach and I know nothing about them, but that's not the point!)

I actually think LaFrentz will actually do well in Boston. He ought to be playing power forward instead of center (Battie is their starting center, right?). He should be getting chance at extended playing time for a change (does the Celtics have a choice?). Plus, he should have more room to operate with the Celtics, either as a spot up guy when Pierce posts or inside when Pierce stays outside.

I like Walker a lot. He's a great fit for Nelson's offense as a 3. Any defensive deficiencies - like him being too slow to guard the opposing 3 - doesn't matter since defense isn't required to play for Nelson. I also think he's also an underrated rebounder - something the Mavericks can use - but that's largely his fault since he floats at the 3-point line so damn much. But that fits perfectly with the Mavericks.

If there's any financial consideration here, it's probably Chris Mills. Apparently, he has a big contract that's up this year. The Celtics can carry him as the 12th (before) or the 15th (after he gets hurt) guy for a year, then have some salary room.

I don't know what kind of effect Jiri Welsch has on this deal. Were more than a few teams high on him?

Maybe this has the effect of turning Walker into LaFrentz (both outside shooting power forwards) with the possible benefit of Welsch while lowering salary cap via Mills. Maybe that's the angle for the Celtics?

sterlingice · 10-21-2003, 03:24 AM

David Aldridge Article on the Trade

Quote:

Celtics Sell Themselves Short With Walker

You never trade your best player (or second-best player) for anyone other than the other team's best player (or second-best player). But for the second time in three months, the Dallas Mavericks have gotten a team to violate that sacred NBA principle.

The Mavs-Celtics part of that deal allowed Mark Cuban to erase his own mistake ($69 million for LaFrentz last year) and re-direct that money to Steve Nash, who can opt out of his deal -- a modest $5.9 million on the cap -- after this season. Dallas would have had to cough up for Nash anyway, but now the Mavs can pay him without taking a prohibitive luxury tax hit down the road.

On the court, yes, Dallas has a lot of forwards -- Dirk Nowitzki, Jamison, Walker, Danny Fortson and Eduardo Najera. But if there's anyone who loves throwing guys out on the floor without a thought to their normal position, it's Nellie. If the Mavs zone it up more this season, they could force you to face these five at the other end: Walker at point forward, Nash (or Delk) at the two, Michael Finley at the three, Jamison at the four -- and Dirk Diggler in the middle! What center do you know that's going to chase him around screens? (And the Mavs have to wonder if Fortson is going to be able to stay on the floor this season.)

Nellie loved to go small with Van Exel and Nash together in the backcourt last season. Travis Best isn't that kind of combo guard. But now, Delk can step into the Nick at Nite role alongside Nash (or Best). Van Exel had a great postseason; he took out the Kings almost by himself. But isn't it reasonable to assume that he can't play much better? For much longer? At best, he was Dallas' third-best last season, and it is Finley who remains the team's heart and soul -- and its best conduit to Walker, a fellow Chicagoan and good friend.

There were nights when LaFrentz rebounded and blocked shots, but there were too many more nights when he just didn't deliver. Nellie tried yelling, he tried kid gloves, he tried ignoring, but he couldn't get consistent play out of him. Nor did LaFrentz play well next to Shawn Bradley, and we know Bradley isn't going anywhere.

Is Dallas giving up defense for more offense? Yeah, and what are you going to do about it? That's what the Mavs do. And if Cuban has proven one thing since taking over, it's that he can find somebody that will take his bad contracts. So if Jamison doesn't pan out, he'll be sent packing somewhere, and Dallas will re-sign Walker, who has an opt-out at season's end.

I just like Walker more than others, I suspect.

Here's what the Celtics are likely thinking: They had neither the inclination nor the (pre-tax) dollars to give Walker the big extension he was looking for (as I've told you both in print and on TV, Danny Ainge's first meeting over the summer with 'Toine was a disaster, with Ainge telling Walker he didn't think much of his game and Walker telling associates he was definitely out of Beantown at year's end). So Walker was on borrowed time from the time camp began, although he dropped close to 20 pounds over the summer.

The C's made summertime calls to the Blazers and Clippers (I thought they'd get something done with the Pacers, who have always coveted Walker), but when they couldn't lay a glove on Rasheed Wallace or Elton Brand, they turned to Dallas. In the East, I suppose LaFrentz is more than a credible center -- when he was in Denver, a half-dozen Eastern teams were salivating for his services -- whose perimeter skills should open up driving lanes for Paul Pierce. In the East, his shot-blocking skills may be more in play -- especially if Boston's team D gets back to where it was two years ago. And Boston believes that Walker's scoring can be made up by increased contributions across the board, from camp surprise Mike James (signed after coach Jim O'Brien and Ainge got the Alonzo Mourning seal of approval for his ex-Heatmate) to LaFrentz to Eric Williams and rookie Marcus Banks.

To me, though, trading Walker puts the spotlight square on Vin Baker. He's dropped 30 pounds, and he's showing some of the low-post skills he had in the past. He's been excelling in outlet passing drills and overall, he's had such a strong preseason that he's got a new nickname -- "Flash," as in flashbacks. Now, though, Baker's not just a good camp story, he's a necessity. With Walker gone, Baker has to be the Celtic who gets in the post, who hits the glass, who gets to the foul line along with Pierce.

I know that the Celtics view this as a potential four-for-one deal. They think Welsch has combo guard skills, but so did the Mavs, and so did the Warriors. The first-round pick, probably late in the round, will produce a low-salaried player who can be developed during the next five years. And the short-term savings of LaFrentz's deal over Walker's could allow Boston to get in the market for a mid-level exception free agent next summer. All true, but ...

You don't trade your biggest assets for more, smaller assets, no matter how many of them come back to you. Is Walker overrated? A ball hog? A turnover machine? All three may be true. But he was still an All-Star, and one of the key reasons the C's had gotten back to being a playoff team. Ainge needed to do better than this.

David Aldridge, who covers the NBA for ESPN, is a regular contributor to ESPN.com.

10-20-2003, 10:11 AM	#2
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	The Celtics are dead in the water salary cap wise thanks for the wonderful trade that brought in Vin Baker. In my opinion Walker was one of two decent players on their team and they now have moved him to try to cut some salary, but now have an entire offense to rest on Paul Pierce... I think its a poor move for the C's.... Of course as someone who I won't name (Celeval) reminded me, it can't be any worse than my Hawks last year.. __________________ Check out my running dynasty

10-20-2003, 10:18 AM	#3
KevinNU7 College Starter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Beantown	LaFrentz is making over $12M a year! Not sure how this moves cuts down the cap __________________ Boston Bashers - III.14 - (8347)

10-20-2003, 10:19 AM	#4
FF Mascot Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Michigan, USA	yeah, i think the mavs signed lafrentz to a huge contract. i dont know how this is helping the celts "LaFrentz signed a $69 million, five-year deal before last season" __________________ i've somehow gotten a computer Last edited by FF : 10-20-2003 at 10:29 AM.

10-20-2003, 10:23 AM	#5
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	This looks like a really bonehead move by the Celts. One hope I held out was that the trade was pending league approval. __________________ Roose Bolton, Stark bannerman and Hand of King Robb A naked man has few secrets; a flayed man none.

10-20-2003, 10:38 AM	#8
VPI97 Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, Hi Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Powder Springs, GA	Trading the black hole known as Antoine Walker can only result in good things for the Celtics. __________________ CT & Jivin - "Surprisingly Entertaining"

10-20-2003, 10:38 AM	#7
vex Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Miami, Oklahoma	That's my Mavs.

10-20-2003, 10:40 AM	#9
bamcgee High School JV Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Francisco, CA	It certainly is weird. LaFrentz isn't much of a center, and he certainly doesn't match Walker's production.

10-20-2003, 10:51 AM	#10
Rich1033 High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sylvania, Ohio	Wow. It says alot that the best they can get for Walker is an overpaid big man who cant play down low.

10-20-2003, 10:53 AM	#11
HornedFrog Purple Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Worthless, Tx	Well we needed another Antoine on the team and he was the best available. This trade makes no sense, but then again neither did the one for Jamison. I am glad LaFrentz is gone. He sucked. If Tony Delk wears 00 here I will puke.

10-20-2003, 10:54 AM	#12
vex Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Miami, Oklahoma	I think this trade makes sense. I just don't know about Antwan Jamison.

10-20-2003, 11:06 AM	#13
HornedFrog Purple Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Worthless, Tx	Danny Fortson is the best part of that deal. If he is healthy then the Mavs made out like bandits. Then they turn around with the extras from that deal and manage to get Walker. The only problem being Walker and Jamison are the same type of player. If the plan is to move Dirk to the 3 then Dirk is unguardable. But neither of these guys rebound as good as Dirk does.

10-20-2003, 11:11 AM	#14
bamcgee High School JV Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Francisco, CA	Fortson is a dog. You'll see. sort of a Rodman without the defense and the hair.

10-20-2003, 11:21 AM	#16
HornedFrog Purple Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Worthless, Tx	Well a couple of years ago people were saying the same thing about Van Exel: cancer, only cares about his stats etc. I can only retort by saying if Fortson is garbage at least he is garbage that will rebound as opposed to Shawn Bradley who is complete garbage that does nothing.

10-20-2003, 11:46 AM	#17
cincyreds High School Varsity Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mississippi	I have been a Mavs fan since they entered the league, so this trade is a bit puzzling. I am happy they traded the softee LaFrentz who was a disappointment. Man, Nowitzki, Jamison and now Walker??? Have to wait see if anyone complains about PT. __________________ The Dallas Cowboys!! America's Team will rise again.

10-20-2003, 11:59 AM	#18
Balldog Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Macomb, MI	Is there any team in the East that could make the playoffs in the West this year? Detroit or Indiana....maybe duke it out for the 8th seed.

10-20-2003, 12:29 PM	#19
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Wow, woke up to the radio telling me about this trade. Crazy... So if the Mavs are going to start Fortson at center, who is going to be coming off of the bench? One thing is for sure, this team will be able to score at will. There should be at least one of the players every game who is hot and making everything he throws up. Just wonder how many points they're going to give up every game... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

10-20-2003, 12:30 PM	#20
Neuqua Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Naperville, Ill	I think Antoine Walker is one of the most overrated players of all time. I'm not sure exactly how much this deal helps the Celts but it seems they get a bit better defensively atleast. Although it now looks like Pierce just may lead the league in scoring this year if he wants to. __________________ Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be? Harry Caray's Bar Tab

10-20-2003, 12:32 PM	#21
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Dola- Heh, I just heard someone refer to the Mavs as the Texas Tech of the NBA. Sounds like an apt comparison... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

10-20-2003, 12:40 PM	#23
Butter_of_69 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	Predicting the future: Here's tonight's stats, as the Mavs fall to Sacramento 195-147: Antoine Walker goes an astounding 15-67, including 10-49 from beyond the 3-point line! He only made about 20%, but did make 10 3-pointers! Way to go.... I guess? __________________ My listening habits Last edited by Butter_of_69 : 10-20-2003 at 12:41 PM.

10-20-2003, 12:46 PM	#27
The_herd College Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Fort Lackland, Texas (San Antonio)	I don't think Walker is necisarrily overrated, he's got incredible talent. He handles the ball well, rebounds, and can get to the basket, he's Don Nelson's ideal player. However, his love for the 3 is what kills him. He's one of the countless players that have fallen in love with shooting the 3 even though they don't really have any business being out there. He also has always looked like he could stand to lose 20 or so pounds. If he shows up to Dallas in shape and leaves the 3's to Nowitzki and Nash, he's the type of player that could put the Mav's over the top. All they need to do now is find at least 1 guy that can guard someone. __________________ Oakland Raiders: HFL's 1970 AC West Champs Last edited by The_herd : 10-20-2003 at 12:47 PM.

10-20-2003, 12:51 PM	#29
HornedFrog Purple Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Worthless, Tx	dola... You realize by keeping an NBA thread on the top, we are pissing off 99.354% of FOFC.

10-20-2003, 01:38 PM	#35
Neuqua Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Naperville, Ill	dola... I'm a bit confused about one thing. Aren't the big contracts signed by those in the '96 draft (Iverson, Marbury, Kittles, Walker) expiring soon? I do not remember hearing the Celts extending Walker's contract, but I may have just missed it. That makes the move a bit confusing if you want to look at it from a financial perspective. Although Mills is in the last year of his big deal so I can see why Boston wanted him. __________________ Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be? Harry Caray's Bar Tab

10-20-2003, 01:41 PM	#36
TroyF Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000	I like this move from the Celtics perspective. LaFrenz is garbage. Thing is, who in the East is going to be able to match up with him? He may actually average 20 points a game in that conference. Walker? What the hell are the Mavs thinking? As someone else said, if he does this and that and yadda yadda yadda, he'll be a great addition. Yeah, the guy's one of the most talented players in the leage. He hasn't done anything to indicate he'll ever use that talent. On defense, he's worse than bad. Oh well, at least I like to watch Dallas games, something I can't say about very many teams in the league. TroyF __________________ TAF1972 on XBOX LIVE http://pro-football-blog.com/

10-20-2003, 01:51 PM	#37
Neuqua Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Naperville, Ill	Oh yeah, I do not get the move at all from the Mavs perspective. They add another scorer to what was already the best scoring team in the league. And then they are going to wonder where they went wrong in the playoffs. If the Mavs had acquired someone like Adonal Foyle instead of Jamison, I think the team itself would better significantly. They may not score as many points but I think it'd better their chances to make the NBA Finals. __________________ Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be? Harry Caray's Bar Tab

10-20-2003, 01:59 PM	#38
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	Paging Bill Simmons.... This should be just the thing for taking his mind of the BoSox for a while.

10-20-2003, 02:03 PM	#39
Tasan College Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houston, or there about	I think Walker will be Nelson's super sixth man. I don't think he'll start, but he'll get a lot of minutes replacing just about all the positions on the floor. __________________ FOOLX: Spring Lions FOOL: Colorado Rancheros 2011 Golden Scribes winner for best Interactive Dynasty

10-20-2003, 03:52 PM	#40
Sublime High School JV Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: NH/Boston University	Granted the 3's is just shamefull, but before Obie took over the C's he was no where near sending up that many threes! Antoine is a great player, he can handle the ball like few forwards, he is a great passer, and has a lot of heart! Needless to say, this deal pisses me off!! Hopefully the C's can trade Eric Williams and Chris Mills to bring in some depth. Both of them are on their last year of their contracts. __________________ BU Hockey WHAT!

10-20-2003, 08:32 PM	#42
Tex Schramm n00b Join Date: Aug 2003	I don't see how this can possibly be a bad move for the Mavs. LaFrentz really didn't do much while he was in Dallas, and in games when he did he almost always ended up fouling out early anyway. If you remember, last year he split time with Bradley because he wasn't playing well enough to start full-time. He even complained that he "wasn't a true center" and wasn't able to defend the bigger guys out West, and was often publicly criticized by Don Nelson. He wasn't even beginning to live up to that outrageous contract he got from Cuban. So, dealing him for anyone even remotely good is a positive move for Dallas. Dealing him (essentially) for not only an All-Star caliber player, as well as another backup option at point guard, is a home run in my opinion. The Mavs resigned themselves to upgrading their frontcourt scoring this offseason after they lost out on Mourning, and they've done that. When I look at this team compared to last year's, there is no comparison. Dallas acquired two All-Star players and hardly gave up anything--Van Exel's departure is at least partially offset by Travis Best and Tony Delk being here to give Nash some rest during the season. Now Nelson can conceivably field a starting rotation of: PG: Steve Nash SG: Michael Finley SF: Antawn Jamison/Antoine Walker PF: Antoine Walker/Antawn Jamison/Dirk Nowitzki C: Dirk Nowitzki/Danny Fortson (Nelson has said he'll consider using Dirk at center for mismatches) Who do you guard? That's a matchup nightmare for any team. I think Dallas wins big time with this trade. Plus, if things don't work out, now they've got substantial flexibility to make another deal for someone else, maybe a tough inside player, later on down the road.

10-20-2003, 08:35 PM	#43
Easy Mac Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: G-vegas, SC	That has to be the greatest defensive team ever. I don't even think God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Mary and Joseph could beat this team. __________________ Movies Music Books

10-20-2003, 08:48 PM	#44
Tex Schramm n00b Join Date: Aug 2003	Who ever said anything about defense? The Mavs haven't ever played any, so why start now? Their defense was just as bad last year, but they did pretty well considering. Everyone's so high on Sacramento, but their defense is only a little better than Dallas's due to Doug Christie.

10-21-2003, 01:24 AM	#46
daedalus Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Hrm. Odd, huh? A couple of things, though . . . Van Exel averaged almost 30 minutes last year. That's close to starter minutes which quite possibly was a big reason why he didn't whine quite as expected. Defense? Defense? We're talking Don Nelson here. Show some love please, Paul Westhead will be the coach of the Long Beach Jam of a new American Basketball Association. (Alright, so I live in Long Beach and I know nothing about them, but that's not the point!) I actually think LaFrentz will actually do well in Boston. He ought to be playing power forward instead of center (Battie is their starting center, right?). He should be getting chance at extended playing time for a change (does the Celtics have a choice?). Plus, he should have more room to operate with the Celtics, either as a spot up guy when Pierce posts or inside when Pierce stays outside. I like Walker a lot. He's a great fit for Nelson's offense as a 3. Any defensive deficiencies - like him being too slow to guard the opposing 3 - doesn't matter since defense isn't required to play for Nelson. I also think he's also an underrated rebounder - something the Mavericks can use - but that's largely his fault since he floats at the 3-point line so damn much. But that fits perfectly with the Mavericks. If there's any financial consideration here, it's probably Chris Mills. Apparently, he has a big contract that's up this year. The Celtics can carry him as the 12th (before) or the 15th (after he gets hurt) guy for a year, then have some salary room. I don't know what kind of effect Jiri Welsch has on this deal. Were more than a few teams high on him? Maybe this has the effect of turning Walker into LaFrentz (both outside shooting power forwards) with the possible benefit of Welsch while lowering salary cap via Mills. Maybe that's the angle for the Celtics?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)