Games of the XXX Olympiad: London 2012

[sterlingice]

Gymnastics

Spoiler

The floor is like a victory lap for the Americans. I think the last one would have to fall out of bounds like 4 times to even make it close

EDIT: Well, she didn't run and poop on the judge's table during the last routine so I'm pretty sure they won gold. They needed, what, a 10 or higher on the last element?

SI

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Gymnastics

Spoiler

The floor is like a victory lap for the Americans. I think the last one would have to fall out of bounds like 4 times to even make it close

EDIT: Well, she didn't run and poop on the judge's table during the last routine so I'm pretty sure they won gold. They needed, what, a 10 or higher on the last element?

SI

Spoiler

One of the coolest things I think I have watched. Pretty cool.

[SirFozzie]

In the men's epee, Seth Kelsey is one win away from the medal rounds, he just won his round of 16 match 15-11 to advance to the quarterfinals.

Later today, Mariel Zaguins of the USA attempts to be a three time Olympic Gold Medalist in Women's sabre.

[SirFozzie]

QF on Mat 2 (piste 2) for the American, up 8-7 as I type this

[SirFozzie]

Looks like the Venezuelan tweaked something in his groin or knee on that lunge. Kelsey is up 13-8, and in a sport that allows double touches (again, within 1/20th of a second) that may be unsurmountable.

I think I like Epee more then the other ones, since there's no right of way (you touch, you score), and the whole body is valid.

[SirFozzie]

And he's done it! 15-9 is the final. He will be taking on Venezuelan Ruben Limardo Gascon in the semi final, scheduled to start around 12:30 PM Eastern

[Draft Dodger]

Jordan's coach trying to weasel into every photo opp was kind of disturbing

[SirFozzie]

And one more thing then I'll stop till something else grabs my attention. Talk about a wide open tournament: The remaining participants:

Kelsey (USA) #(17in the world)
Gascon (VEN) (#13)

Piasecki (NOR) (#47)
Jang (KOR) (#15)

[SirFozzie]

Oooh, who had Badminton for the first real controversey, four teams (China, Indonesia and two teams from South Korea) were disqualified for not giving their best efforts in a match, in an attempt to secure a better match for the knockout stage of the competition

[Ksyrup]

Man, it's a good thing the badminton people weren't watching the Kentucky state middle school softball tournament back in May.

[sterlingice]

More importantly: does this help us medal in badminton?

SI

[sterlingice]

As it appears we did not even have an entry into women's doubles badminton, the answer is no

SI

[Big Fo]

Zagunis is on in her sabre bout now. I can't really tell what is happening. Every time they clash and play is stopped, the opponent seemingly pumps her fist in triumph but Zagunis gets the point.

[molson]

It sounds like the Chinese badminton team has a reputation for losing on purpose to get a better draw. I think they need a better tournament format.

Part of it too sounds like like the Chinese were trying to rig it so there wouldn't be an all-Chinese semi-final match, and so that they would play each other in the finals instead if they won in the semis.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Im a Field Hockey fan now.

...

[RainMaker]

Well hello there.

[Julio Riddols]

Boxing is evidently pretty corrupt even in the olympics. Watch the Alvarez/Diaz fight if you get a chance.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Boxing is evidently pretty corrupt even in the olympics. Watch the Alvarez/Diaz fight if you get a chance.

Yeah... no idea how Diaz didn't get the decision there.

[Julio Riddols]

Well, not only that, but the score was WAY lopsided.

[SirFozzie]

Kelsey will fence for bronze, after losing 6-5 in over time to the Venezuelan. Something I've never seen before, the second period seemed to be cut short, I guess there had been no points scored, and the judge stopped the bout and said "Ok, we're now in the third period"

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Boxing is evidently pretty corrupt even in the olympics. Watch the Alvarez/Diaz fight if you get a chance.

Pretty sure I've written that off ever since Roy Jones Jr.

[SirFozzie]

Wow, Zaguins was up like 13-8 and the Korean Fencer wins 15-13

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Oooh, who had Badminton for the first real controversey, four teams (China, Indonesia and two teams from South Korea) were disqualified for not giving their best efforts in a match, in an attempt to secure a better match for the knockout stage of the competition

I had to chuckle at the Indonesian coach/manager. "China does this all the time, and nothing is ever done. If they had disqualified China after the first match, it would have been a warning for everyone." So....Since they got away with it, you figured it would be okay for you to do it as well?

[JPhillips]

So is the new "you must try hard all the time" rule going to be in force in other sports? Hope nobody rests players in the last group match in soccer. They'll also have to DQ most of the road race teams as they openly talked about dropping back at the finish so someone else could win. All the swimmers and runners that hold back a bit in qualifying will also have to be DQ'd.

[spleen1015]

Swimming = Men's 100 free

Spoiler

Nathan Adrian bests the Missile from Australia by .01 second to win the GOLD!!!

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

So is the new "you must try hard all the time" rule going to be in force in other sports? Hope nobody rests players in the last group match in soccer. They'll also have to DQ most of the road race teams as they openly talked about dropping back at the finish so someone else could win. All the swimmers and runners that hold back a bit in qualifying will also have to be DQ'd.

I don't think those are comparable at all, really. In all of those examples, the person/team (those on the field) are still trying to win/qualify. That's much different than the badminton situation where the participants were actively trying to lose.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I had to chuckle at the Indonesian coach/manager. "China does this all the time, and nothing is ever done. If they had disqualified China after the first match, it would have been a warning for everyone." So....Since they got away with it, you figured it would be okay for you to do it as well?

I think the first problem is that, yes, there is precedent for tanking matches in badminton tournaments, but this is the first time in world history that anyone has ever paid for a ticket to a women's doubles badminton match.

The second problem is that the Chinese hired Richard Williams to coach their badminton teams.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

So is the new "you must try hard all the time" rule going to be in force in other sports? Hope nobody rests players in the last group match in soccer. They'll also have to DQ most of the road race teams as they openly talked about dropping back at the finish so someone else could win. All the swimmers and runners that hold back a bit in qualifying will also have to be DQ'd.

I think there's a difference between pacing oneself and actively trying to throw the match

SI

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I think there's a difference between pacing oneself and actively trying to throw the match

SI

But that's really all these teams were doing. None of them were trying to lose the tournament they were trying to position themselves in the best way for winning.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I don't think those are comparable at all, really. In all of those examples, the person/team (those on the field) are still trying to win/qualify. That's much different than the badminton situation where the participants were actively trying to lose.

In the cycling example most of the team members are committing to not winning before the race begins.

[SirFozzie]

Men's Soccer Knockout Matchups:

GB-KOR
BRA-HON

MEX-SEN
JPN-EGY

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

In the cycling example most of the team members are committing to not winning before the race begins.

My take is that this might be analogous to a team pledging their support to another rider. So while they individually aren't trying to win, that is because they are working for another rider who is better positioned to win. Sort of like Bradley Wiggins leading out Mark Cavendish on the Champs Elysees in the last stage of the TdF. Wiggins isn't trying to lose, he is pledging his efforts to help Cavendish win.


The Badminton example was apparently brought to a head by two teams hitting the bird into the net on service...racing for the loss. That is quite a difference.

[JPhillips]

But they were trying to lose so that they'd be in a better position to win a medal. Just like in any other event these teams were doing what they thought put them in the best position to win it all. If the IOC doesn't like that, change the format of the tournament, but DQing these teams is ridiculous.

The teams were DQed for "not using one's best efforts to win a match". How is that any different from resting players after you are assured of advancing in group play?

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

But they were trying to lose so that they'd be in a better position to win a medal. Just like in any other event these teams were doing what they thought put them in the best position to win it all. If the IOC doesn't like that, change the format of the tournament, but DQing these teams is ridiculous.

The teams were DQed for "not using one's best efforts to win a match". How is that any different from resting players after you are assured of advancing in group play?

Are the players that you did put on the field kicking the ball into your net? If so, then there is not difference. If not...then no it is not the same thing.

I don't think many people believe that it is acceptable to intentionally lose now for later gain. Rest now and risk a loss is different.

In the swimming relays, lesser swimmers often swim the preliminary heats to allow the better swimmers to be rested for the main event. That is strategy, you don't have the best team there in the prelims, but you are ready for the final. Or you could do what the US men's team did, and throw in a "hot" swimmer to compete in the final of an event that he hasn't competed in in years. There they tried to put the best team forward, but won't be punished for being wrong about it unless you consider a silver medal a punishment.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

In the cycling example most of the team members are committing to not winning before the race begins.

Yeah, but that's inherent to the sport of cycling as it is done in the Tour De France and other events. I still don't see it as remotely comparable to purposefully losing a match.

[JPhillips]

Apparently the badminton federation was warned that this was likely if they changed the format. The only reason it isn't a part of the sport is that the format has been different. Jockeying for position at the end of group play is pretty standard in other sports. The only difference here is that the Chinese were too obvious about what they were doing.

[molson]

The goal of tanking is to increase your chances of winning the tournament, so in that way, it seems kind of similar to "pacing yourself" kind of tanking. You're willing to hold back in one small segment of the tournament with an eye towards the bigger prize.

I blame the format though. If a team or individual increases their chance of winning a tournament by losing a game, your format fails. Make it a double- or triple- elimination tournament if you don't want it to be one-and-done.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

In the cycling example most of the team members are committing to not winning before the race begins.

"team". The GB cycling team tried hard to win the gold medal. You're not asking your goalkeeper and defenders to run forwards to score goals.

At the same time, you don't ask your cyclists to cause mass falls, or ask your defenders to let some goals in to tilt the score. That's what these badminton teams have been warned about during their games and have been DQed for.

The real kicker is that those four teams were scheduled to play eachother, so it really puzzles me what they had to win/lose here...

[MIJB#19]

To be more precise, of those four, the winner of match A would face the loser of match B and vice versa. So if they all had tried to win, they would have faced the other game's loser and supposedly weaker team...

[Rizon]

Watching the best women in the world play basketball is like watching one-legged blind pygmies shooting lumps of triangular concrete into square baskets.

[sterlingice]

It was good of the men's gymnastics individuals to knock themselves out early again on the pommel horse so we got a lot more swimming coverage tonight

SI

[sterlingice]

The 100 Freestyle was awesome! Without spoiling, it's a 0.01 difference between gold and silver. They go stroke for stroke and one just barely out-touches the second.

SI

[Big Fo]

This swimming commentator is getting on my nerves a bit. He's constantly going on about how "this is a very important 50 meters" every damn race. Half of the 50 meter spans seem to be very important. When races are won by hundredths of a second, I think anyone can see that all parts of the race are important.

[molson]

I watched the raw footage of that fencing deal from Monday online - that was crazy. They started and stopped the clock 4 times with 1 second on the clock, and the 1 second never moved. Well, it did go down to 0 after a while, but then the judge put another second on the clock for some reason. What a dumb sport. The judges reviewed the video for a while, I'm not sure what they were looking for. It'd be like if the Lakers had scored the winning basket 4 seconds after the buzzer, and everyone knew it, but Lakers just somehow won anyway. Ya, this is old news, but to watch the whole thing actually play out was crazy. I read somewhere that there was a 15-year old volunteer in charge of starting and stopping the clock. Maybe she was texting at the time.

Edit: And this was a pretty awesome boxing match. The Azerbaijan guy tackles the Japanese boxer several times, and keeps falling down, or just sitting down. None of this results in a official knockdown, or a standing 8 count. And then, the Azerbaijan boxer wins. The result was later overturned. I love the quote from the Japanese boxer: "I was shocked about the result. He fell down so many times. Why didn't I win? I don't understand,"

Boxing judges under fire amid "fix" claims - Boxing News | NBC Olympics

I always have a hard time finding time to watch the Olympics, even on DVR, but I'm loving the NBC on demand replays.

[bhlloy]

When you consider the evidence BBC Newsnight came up with that Azerbaijan had bought gold medals, it all seems to make a lot of sense. I guess whoever was in on the fix decided that last fight was a bit too obvious, what with the Azerbaijani boxer getting TKO'd twice in the same round and still managing to win. But I think there's been at least one other controversial result involving one of their boxers so far and I'm sure they'll find some other sap to screw instead.

Peterson/Khan, Bradley/Pacman and now this... how is anyone actually watching boxing with a straight face? Can something become an un-sport?

It's crazy to me that the media isn't jumping all over the fact that somebody was recorded trying to buy gold medals and then that result "happens". But I guess the IOC really does have the major media outlets in their pocket. 2+2=we don't want to talk about it when there's that much money involved.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

This swimming commentator is getting on my nerves a bit. He's constantly going on about how "this is a very important 50 meters" every damn race. Half of the 50 meter spans seem to be very important. When races are won by hundredths of a second, I think anyone can see that all parts of the race are important.

I get it in, say, an 800 where there are 16 laps. However, it seems really silly to say in a 100. It turns out the last 50 are really important in a 100.

SI

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

This swimming commentator is getting on my nerves a bit. He's constantly going on about how "this is a very important 50 meters" every damn race. Half of the 50 meter spans seem to be very important. When races are won by hundredths of a second, I think anyone can see that all parts of the race are important.

the german one on one of the 2 channels is allways claiming "he is behind, but he is known for his punch at the end, he can still do it" (medal, qualify, anything ...) about every german swimmer. I don´t think even a single one has come through for him so far

[sterlingice]

About the only one I can think of would be Biedermann, tho. He's fast but I don't think he's medaled yet.

SI

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I get it in, say, an 800 where there are 16 laps. However, it seems really silly to say in a 100. It turns out the last 50 are really important in a 100.

SI

Hopefully he says it during the 50m freestyle.

[sterlingice]

That would be pretty awesome

SI