Prometheus

[ISiddiqui]

You are assuming the original planet is Earth... it may not be (and I didn't necessarily see it to be such).

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You are assuming the original planet is Earth... it may not be (and I didn't necessarily see it to be such).

Doesn't change the fact that the first scene established them as those who made us, especially with the focus on the DNA strand in the water. That scene + all the cave paintings and what not.

Even if it wasn't earth, I saw it, at the very least, as sort of an example of: "Here are our makers. This is how they did it. They drank the black goo, disolved into our eco-system, and then we sprung from them."

[JediKooter]

If it helps any...a lot of people didn't understand that first scene or what it was supposed to represent. Not sure if Scott intentionally did that or it was just a serendipitous occurrence though.

Some people took it pretty straight forward as it being the seeding of life on Earth. (me being one of them)

Some people took it as poisoning the Earth/some unknown planet.

It's left up to interpretation until you read what Scott had to say about that scene...paraphrasing him, "It isn't necessarily Earth that the scene happens on. It could be anywhere, but, yes, this is how the Engineers go around creating life on other worlds."

I don't have a problem with that answering the question for us in the first scene. We have the privilege of knowing that, while the characters in the movie have no clue about the event in the first scene.

[ISiddiqui]

Regardless, it is a vague beginning and the movie attempts to fill in the gaps of who made us - by revealing the ship and its component parts and the Engineers and asking us to consider the black goo bio-weapon and why the Engineers wanted to kill us after they apparently made us.

[Arles]

I just saw this and think it's a pretty weak movie. There was no real drama or storyline. Everything seemed a little trumped up without any regard for consistency or logic. It was a bit like Armageddon meets a 70s sci fi movie.

Spoiler

The group was a set of rejects (on a trillion dollar mission). Nearly everyone does something completely out of what you think their character should be.
- An outgoing biologist who wants to make friends with a skinhead?
- A main scientists who decides (on a whim) to pull off his helmet in a strange atmosphere potentially feet from meeting a new race that he traveled years to reach?
-The female lead who neglects to tell anyone about an alien coming out of her? And why did the "completely logical android" not go "Huh? I wonder what happened to that Alien growing inside her?" If he's indeed experimenting as in the next point, you'd think he'd want to check that out.
-David the droid acting like the old Guy Pearce told him to spike the guy's drink with Alien jizz. Not sure why Guy would do that. Did he think the black stuff could be some kind of "fountain of youth" and want David to use a guinea pig? Seems pretty far fetched.
-Two scientists who can repeatedly give exact coordinates to the captain at night but who got lost in the cavern despite a huge time lead over the 3-4 others who somehow made it from their same location to the ship in under 15 min. Did someone blind fold them and spin them before they left the room?
- The lead's oxygen had 30 seconds left when she goes in the temp ship. Then, after taking her mask off inside and battling an Alien for a couple mins, she leaves the broken down ship with a full set of oxygen?
- The beginning didn't make much sense either. The alien guy either killed himself to poison some planet or we were created from a buff albino who ate a bunch of black crap. Huh? Maybe a little bit of tying this in later in the movie or giving us some lifeline on what the point of that was.
- And what's with the girl just flying off after the original planet at the end? The alien tried to kill everyone on site - what's she going to do? Land there, say "take me to your leader" and then surprise everyone with Alien goo? It's like a kid who got beat up by the school bully deciding to go into a biker bar and pick fights with two Hell's Angels because he found a rusty pocket knife on the street. It doesn't make any sense.

Again, this felt like a movie where the first hour was spent on setting up all these characters to have a certain role. Then, in the last 45 minutes, most people acted out of character and the director rushed to get some kind of hurried ending to be under 2 hours and 10 min. It was just a sloppy movie that didn't flow well or even give us an interesting dilemma at the end to figure out. It was like a campy horror movie where everyone's actions where purposefully stupid to get a higher body count.

[ISiddiqui]

Andrew Sullivan had a very good (IMO) blog post on Prometheus, where I agree with a lot of what he has to say:

Prometheus And Faith - The Dish | By Andrew Sullivan - The Daily Beast

John O'Sullivan blurts out the obvious about Ridley Scott's new film:

What really caught my attention was its quietly insistent religious theme. This is never stated boldly. It would hardly be a major topic of conversation among a group on scientists on an inter-galactic mission towards the end of this century. And this is not a talkative Shaw play. But it emerges in key scenes in odd and unexplained ways, disappears behind the action again, and then recurs later, notably in the final scene.

One main character uses the phrase “In the year of Our Lord,” quite without irony, in a sentence that tantalizingly promises us a sequel. A Christian cross is taken from one character and then, at a moment of grave crisis, seized back. The apparently malicious actions of an android raise a question with ultimate implications: Is it a case of bad programming? Or does it/he possess a soul? If so, what is his relationship to the Fall? Maybe I am drawing implications too heavy for the script to bear; but I don’t think so.

Me neither. I was enthralled by the film's spectacle (and we went to a 2D screening), entertained by its action sequences and, unlike my companions, unfazed by several loose plot ends. This was an epic story, using myth and symbols to dramatize some truly great questions: the relationship between man and God, the amoralism of nature and the salvation that only comes from grace. It's also a grand re-telling of the Tower of Babel - the deep mythical truth that we and our knowledge can be our undoing, that the fruit in the Garden of Eden was most definitely from the Tree of Knowledge. It was like The Tree of Life combined with 2001: A Space Odyssey. I quickly forgot the plot issues and marveled at its grand sweep.

The film admits of several interpretations. Mine - surprise! - sees it as a Christian film about the necessity for human humility in the face of creation, the easy temptation of evil that appears good, and the irrational faith in grace that springs paradoxically from our reason as well as revelation. It is about becoming Gods. And why that is, in fact, a nightmare.

More online discussion of this here, here and here. To see what has happened to the Christian imagination in America, read this review. And weep.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Arles

I just saw this and think it's a pretty weak movie. There was no real drama or storyline. Everything seemed a little trumped up without any regard for consistency or logic. It was a bit like Armageddon meets a 70s sci fi movie.

Spoiler

The group was a set of rejects (on a trillion dollar mission). Nearly everyone does something completely out of what you think their character should be.

JK: If they are rejects, then they are acting completely in character, no?

- An outgoing biologist who wants to make friends with a skinhead?

JK: Didn't get the impression that Fifield was a skinhead. He had mohawk and told Milburn (the guy he got lost with) that he wasn't there to make friends, just money.

- A main scientists who decides (on a whim) to pull off his helmet in a strange atmosphere potentially feet from meeting a new race that he traveled years to reach?

JK: No one expected to find anything, let alone life. The dude was a bit euphoric in that scene and David said the air was perfectly clean to breath.

-The female lead who neglects to tell anyone about an alien coming out of her? And why did the "completely logical android" not go "Huh? I wonder what happened to that Alien growing inside her?" If he's indeed experimenting as in the next point, you'd think he'd want to check that out.

JK: By this time, Old Man Weyland was up. David's priority was Weyland, not Shaw or the soon to be giant face hugger. You did catch the line he threw at her..."I didn't know you had it in you. Oh, sorry, poor choice of words". So, it's not that he forgot or wasn't curious, his priorities had changed.

-David the droid acting like the old Guy Pearce told him to spike the guy's drink with Alien jizz. Not sure why Guy would do that. Did he think the black stuff could be some kind of "fountain of youth" and want David to use a guinea pig? Seems pretty far fetched.

JK: Weyland told David to 'try harder'. David more than likely didn't know what would happen, so yes, Holloway was a guinea pig.

-Two scientists who can repeatedly give exact coordinates to the captain at night but who got lost in the cavern despite a huge time lead over the 3-4 others who somehow made it from their same location to the ship in under 15 min. Did someone blind fold them and spin them before they left the room?

JK: This does seem a bit silly. The only thing I can think of is the captain said the storm is creating a lot of static. This may have affected their maps when they were trying to get out.

- The lead's oxygen had 30 seconds left when she goes in the temp ship. Then, after taking her mask off inside and battling an Alien for a couple mins, she leaves the broken down ship with a full set of oxygen?

JK: As soon as she got into the lifeboat, she started filling a bag up with oxygen canisters. It's possible that she changed her old one out as she was getting out of there.

- The beginning didn't make much sense either. The alien guy either killed himself to poison some planet or we were created from a buff albino who ate a bunch of black crap. Huh? Maybe a little bit of tying this in later in the movie or giving us some lifeline on what the point of that was.

JK: Some people thought this was too obvious and others don't get this scene. I think the scene sets up the tone of the movie nicely. In a nut shell, this is how they seed life. Later on in the movie, it is determined that the black stuff can also destroy life. Yes, in the Prometheus universe, we were created by the Engineers. Shaw even tells & shows this to Holloway before they have sex.

- And what's with the girl just flying off after the original planet at the end? The alien tried to kill everyone on site - what's she going to do? Land there, say "take me to your leader" and then surprise everyone with Alien goo? It's like a kid who got beat up by the school bully deciding to go into a biker bar and pick fights with two Hell's Angels because he found a rusty pocket knife on the street. It doesn't make any sense.

JK: She says exactly why she wants to go to their planet. She wants to ask them why they want to kill life on Earth. My question is, how the hell is she going to change their mind?

Again, this felt like a movie where the first hour was spent on setting up all these characters to have a certain role. Then, in the last 45 minutes, most people acted out of character and the director rushed to get some kind of hurried ending to be under 2 hours and 10 min. It was just a sloppy movie that didn't flow well or even give us an interesting dilemma at the end to figure out. It was like a campy horror movie where everyone's actions where purposefully stupid to get a higher body count.

JK: I think the movie could have been a lot better, no doubt about it, but, it was still a good movie overall. I think the few problems it had was because it suffered from the Lindelof touch in all honesty. There was about 20-30 minutes cut from the film. Who knows whether or not it expanded on anything though. There were a lot of things that if you didn't see or hear, things probably didn't make sense. There were things I didn't catch the first time around and there were things that I was glad I watched the viral videos that came out before the movie. I've seen some pretty bad movies and this isn't near any of those. Do some of the characters do silly/stupid things? Yes they do, but, it's a fictional movie set in a fictional future. I mean, if we want to hold the movie to real life standards and logic, then the Prometheus having faster than light engines is a huge plot hole.

Not trying to change your mind or anything like that and totally understand that if you don't like it, you don't like it, that's cool.

Some answers in your spoiler tag.

[Arles]

I think the people that like it enjoy the historical mythology tie ins and "above brow" references. I can appreciate that as I studied a ton of ancient civilizations in college. Still, it doesn't make up for the fact that it's a pretty weak movie.

This would be a nice "Classic Mythology" in-class movie, but it doesn't stand up as a pure movie in a vacuum. Clever references to older civilizations and a somewhat overplayed "rising from the abdomen" theme doesn't make up for weak characters, odd casting, a poorly setup plot and an overall splintered story without much buy-in or suspense.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Some answers in your spoiler tag.

I understand someone could rationalize a lot of the things that bothered me, but it still comes down to the fact that I never really felt invested in the characters or pulled into an intriguing story. The original Aliens did that and added some very compelling suspense scenes. Prometheus just felt a little lazy to me. The directors seem to be saying - we're going to give you 3-4 disjointed scenes and let you make up your own backstory and reasoning for our characters actions.

In this movie, I didn't really care if anyone made it out alive. The "engineers" were never given any kind of personality or intrigue. They were basically tall stiffs who hopped from planet to planet without any discernible motive. Sometimes they would kill, others they would build life. We are left to create a background for them that could easily be way off the mark. I just left the theater feeling that I witnessed a visually impressive movie that had no real story or compelling moment. Not exactly what I'm hoping for when I go to the movies.

[stevew]

Finally got a chance to go last night.
I'm honestly not even sure what to think. I felt like they zoned in on the structure so quickly. Really might have liked even a touch more exploration of the world. Maybe you do a pan of the planet as we get to know the characters?

-Would have loved to see Stringer Bell have more of a story
-tons of religious symbolism at work.
-the surgery chamber set piece was fucking brilliant

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Arles

I understand someone could rationalize a lot of the things that bothered me, but it still comes down to the fact that I never really felt invested in the characters or pulled into an intriguing story. The original Aliens did that and added some very compelling suspense scenes. Prometheus just felt a little lazy to me. The directors seem to be saying - we're going to give you 3-4 disjointed scenes and let you make up your own backstory and reasoning for our characters actions.

In this movie, I didn't really care if anyone made it out alive. The "engineers" were never given any kind of personality or intrigue. They were basically tall stiffs who hopped from planet to planet without any discernible motive. Sometimes they would kill, others they would build life. We are left to create a background for them that could easily be way off the mark. I just left the theater feeling that I witnessed a visually impressive movie that had no real story or compelling moment. Not exactly what I'm hoping for when I go to the movies.

Wow this was so close to how I felt about it it's crazy. And it was more than that too.

Why use a flamethrower on a guy, when you could have just told him to take his helmet off?

Why run parallel to a falling ship? Ninety degrees change you got a better shot at least.

At one point near the end of the movie I was actually glad when the ending seemed more Shakespearean. I would have been satisfied with that.

You're right, it was a movie with the conception of a few scenes and a rough story, that's all. My English teacher would have marked it a D+ and sent it back for revisions.

Too many damn holes in the story.

[Julio Riddols]

Lindelof really needs to learn how to close holes or he will rapidly run out of chances to write. He does great coming up with disjointed concepts, but if he could figure out how to tie it all together he could be one of the better writers out there.

[Kodos]

I think the movie suffered a bit from Alien-related expectations.

[Pyser]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Lindelof really needs to learn how to close holes or he will rapidly run out of chances to write. He does great coming up with disjointed concepts, but if he could figure out how to tie it all together he could be one of the better writers out there.

considering he's adapting The Leftovers for hbo, plus who knows what else, i don't see him running out of jobs for a looong time.

his stuff is intriguing enough to keep seeing. i mean, look at how much discussion he generates, good endings or not.

maybe with a better ending his stuff would actually be less interesting?

[JediKooter]

I have a feeling if Lindelof doesn't change his ways soon, he'll be roommates with M Night Shamalamadingdong.