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Old 05-09-2012, 04:19 PM   #101
JPhillips
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Originally Posted by Logan View Post
First of all, that savings just from those 6 sports. Knock off another 10 sports and how much does that save? The women's basketball program alone loses something like $3MM a year.

But again, the "deficit" figure from last year includes something like $8MM in principal and interest on bond payments for what is, and will continue to be, an asset of the university. The football program doesn't get the benefit of that "credited" back once its paid off free and clear.

If the school decided to cut everything but football and women's soccer, the athletic department would be profitable by all accounts.

A football stadium is almost certainly going to cost more in upkeep than it will generate in non-football income. The benefit from the increased stadium, in other words, will go to the athletic department. A stadium also isn't something they can sell later for a profit. Who wants a stadium on a college campus other than the college?

Like I said earlier, I don't care how a school gets to a balanced budget, but I can't understand why someone with Christie's supposed priorities is willing to shovel so much public money to one school's athletic program.
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:23 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
but I can't understand why someone with Christie's supposed priorities is willing to shovel so much public money to one school's athletic program.

Because it's one of the best marketing tools around. Primary beneficiary is the school for sure, but the area and the state gain image as well (at least IF the program is successful).
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:27 PM   #103
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Seriously?

That's it. From now on when someone is born they will get placed in a bubble immediately and live in a sterilized rubber room being fed through an IV until the day they pass.
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:31 PM   #104
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College football is right up there with tobacco and alcohol as hazardous activities that are so ingrained in the US culture and, more importantly, the US economy that it would be impossible to get rid of. The arguments pro/con and which side makes more sense are irrelevant.


I think this kind of argument is the worst argument for keeping ANYTHING.
i.e. because it's always been there.
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:33 PM   #105
JPhillips
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Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
Because it's one of the best marketing tools around. Primary beneficiary is the school for sure, but the area and the state gain image as well (at least IF the program is successful).

But if I came in and proposed a thirty million dollar marketing campaign of HS visits and largely poorly attended performance events I'd get laughed out of the room. Is spending thirty million above and beyond the revenue of income generating sports the best way to spend that money?

I don't have any problems with public school athletic programs that balance the budget, even when they spend crazy amounts of money ala tOSU or Texas. My problem is using fees and tuition to subsidize non-academic programs that can't support themselves. When the per student expenditure from state governments has dropped significantly it's crazy to funnel more and more money to athletic programs.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:07 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
But if I came in and proposed a thirty million dollar marketing campaign of HS visits and largely poorly attended performance events I'd get laughed out of the room. Is spending thirty million above and beyond the revenue of income generating sports the best way to spend that money?

You got another way of getting residents of the other 49 states to realize the NJ isn't a) a borough of NYC and b) contains something other than landfills, swamps, and Hoffa's body?
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:07 PM   #107
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Most stadium's are largely subsidized by private money (ie, donations) even though the private parties rarely see any of the future ticket revenues from it. Essentially, in college sports, the boosters/alumni are the "public" and the school is the "greedy owner" in parallel to professional sports stadiums.

If someone agrees to subsidize 70-100% of a new stadium for you (both Arizona and Oregon's were built with 100% private donations), why wouldn't you take that and then use that to charge higher/more tickets? Plus, the improved facilities help recruiting, which improves your team (in theory) and helps win you more games which helps generate money (bowl revenue, merchandising, additional tickets/suites,...).

The current process of the private subsidizing major college arenas/stadiums is one of the biggest boondoggle cash windfalls that universities have. Even if they have to add $5-$10 mil in bond money to finish it, a majority is paid by donors/alumni. It's like getting a $5 million house for a $50K mortgage then bitching about the interest rate on the loan.
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Last edited by Arles : 05-09-2012 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:34 PM   #108
NorvTurnerOverdrive
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bah

1. the south rules college football
2. the south doesn't exactly embrace change. especially if it challenges one of their long standing institutions

and moneys. everyone hates bcs but moneys.

someone's brain would literally have to explode and ooze out of their earhole. even then... idk.

sec logo > dixie flag
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:22 PM   #109
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Just ban concussions.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:22 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive View Post
bah

1. the south rules college football
2. the south doesn't exactly embrace change. especially if it challenges one of their long standing institutions

and moneys. everyone hates bcs but moneys.

someone's brain would literally have to explode and ooze out of their earhole. even then... idk.

sec logo > dixie flag

I could see football being one of those things that survives longer in the south than anywhere else.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:38 PM   #111
NorvTurnerOverdrive
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i could see the south seceding BECAUSE of college football
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:53 PM   #112
molson
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i could see the south seceding BECAUSE of college football

Ah yes, I can see it now, "The Great Football Secession War Of 2021".
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:55 PM   #113
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(Haven't read the other pages so apologies if this has already been brought up)

Take off the body armour, control the tackling (ala Rugby, no high tackles) and already you're on your way to making the game safer. *shrug* I don't think they should change it, but there are far more realistic options out there than ending the entire game.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:09 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
A football stadium is almost certainly going to cost more in upkeep than it will generate in non-football income. The benefit from the increased stadium, in other words, will go to the athletic department. A stadium also isn't something they can sell later for a profit. Who wants a stadium on a college campus other than the college?

Like I said earlier, I don't care how a school gets to a balanced budget, but I can't understand why someone with Christie's supposed priorities is willing to shovel so much public money to one school's athletic program.

I'm not sure if it's my fury over this Rangers game, but I honestly have no idea what the hell you're talking about here.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:22 PM   #115
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My interest in banning college football stems not from injury probabilities from the extreme emphasis/hype/production/expenses in a supposedly amateur college environment. Just spin off NCAA into a professional minor league for the NFL that does away with the charades and academic games that are played. Alternatively, make it like what some of the lower (Ivy?) leagues have become - a step up from intramural sports.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:32 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive View Post
i could see the south seceding BECAUSE of high school (and to a great extent, college) football

Fixed.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:55 PM   #117
JPhillips
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Originally Posted by Logan View Post
I'm not sure if it's my fury over this Rangers game, but I honestly have no idea what the hell you're talking about here.

You said that the stadium is an asset for the university above and beyond what it will generate on gamedays, and, therefore, you can't count the construction costs and debt service as a complete negative.

I don't think the stadium will have much of any use besides football and nobody will ever buy it, so it isn't an asset of any value beyond what it brings in on gamedays.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:57 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
You got another way of getting residents of the other 49 states to realize the NJ isn't a) a borough of NYC and b) contains something other than landfills, swamps, and Hoffa's body?

Rutgers shouldn't be advertising for NJ and if they have to there has to be a better campaign than what they are doing.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:58 PM   #119
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Just spin off NCAA into a professional minor league for the NFL that does away with the charades and academic games that are played. Alternatively, make it like what some of the lower (Ivy?) leagues have become - a step up from intramural sports.

Well we agree on something!
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:38 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Buccaneer View Post
My interest in banning college football stems not from injury probabilities from the extreme emphasis/hype/production/expenses in a supposedly amateur college environment. Just spin off NCAA into a professional minor league for the NFL that does away with the charades and academic games that are played. Alternatively, make it like what some of the lower (Ivy?) leagues have become - a step up from intramural sports.

I don't think you have to spin it off. The infrastructure and fanbase is set. Just allow players to be employees who can get paid for their services. Perhaps that compensation is just an academic scholarship. But in the case of elite athletes, it can be millions in compensation.

The funny thing is that it would make the sport better from a talent standpoint. There isn't that rush to turn pro right away if you are getting paid and able to sign endorsement deals.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:22 AM   #121
Logan
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Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
You said that the stadium is an asset for the university above and beyond what it will generate on gamedays, and, therefore, you can't count the construction costs and debt service as a complete negative.

I don't think the stadium will have much of any use besides football and nobody will ever buy it, so it isn't an asset of any value beyond what it brings in on gamedays.

First of all, the stadium does have use beyond gamedays. It's used for high school playoffs, training camps, etc which bring in additional revenue...lower than could be achieved if the school wanted to since they don't charge any of those local high schools to play there. They've been approached by bands who want to have outdoor concerts in venues smaller than Giants Stadium/MetLife...it hasn't happened yet because of fighting between the school and the surrounding townships because of traffic concerns.

More importantly, do you have any idea what makes up a university's assets? Who's buying a lecture hall? A computer lab? They are money pits that don't bring in any additional revenue, but are vital to a college serving its students. Assets are funded by capital at universities just like in any other business.

Again, the deficit to the athletic department isn't being caused by the football program. Eliminate all those money-losing sports and the problem is solved. But they don't want to do that because, just like above, all those other sports are part of the overall "college experience" and have a value to the students.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:55 AM   #122
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Seriously?

That's it. From now on when someone is born they will get placed in a bubble immediately and live in a sterilized rubber room being fed through an IV until the day they pass.

Exactly. Then we could just harvest the electricity they generate to power our CPUs ... I mean, brains. Brains, obviously is what I meant. We don't have CPUs. What are we? The Matrix? Ha, ha. That's funny. "The Matrix". At least I think it's funny. I don't really understand humor. We don't .. I mean, wouldn't call ourselves The Matrix anyway. That's a purely human concept.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:21 AM   #123
JPhillips
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Originally Posted by Logan View Post


More importantly, do you have any idea what makes up a university's assets? Who's buying a lecture hall? A computer lab? They are money pits that don't bring in any additional revenue, but are vital to a college serving its students. Assets are funded by capital at universities just like in any other business

Exactly. Colleges don't have assets in the same way as traditional businesses. The buildings won't be sold and contribute to an ever rising maintenance bill.

I never said football was the problem, just the overall athletic budget.
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Old 05-10-2012, 06:59 PM   #124
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:33 PM   #125
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Will we see an increase in parents pushing their kids into other sports over football? If so, will this increase the talent levels in those sports?
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