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Old 09-25-2006, 02:47 AM   #1
demons19
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calling your own plays

Can someone tell me if its possible to call your own plays with any greater success than just letting your coach do it?
Because, it seems like it just doesn't matter. It appears completely random no matter what type of talent you have. I have a team of monsters compared to other teams and nothing I do calling plays makes a difference. Even letting my coach call plays is not providing the blow out it should.

I am beginning to think, the game is quite random and based on talent it will provide an edge but not allow any major blowouts. Because with a team of excellent players, I can struggle calling plays or my coach can struggle Vs a team of poor/good players.

Does someone have the formula for crushing the other team calling plays? Is there a trick to this?

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Old 09-25-2006, 09:19 AM   #2
flere-imsaho
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The few times I've called my own plays, I've found myself having an unfortunate tendency to do two things far more often than I should:

1. Call the same play, or the same type of play too often (i.e. RB around Left End).

2. Call more long passes than I should.

You should check yourself to see if either of these are the case. Other than that, I don't know how to help.
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Old 09-25-2006, 03:38 PM   #3
demons19
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actually, I did just the opposite to see if it mattered.....used a different formation every play, mixed up run, short, medium.....it just doesn't matter. I truely believe the game is created to be random. I think its programmed so that you could never score 60-70-80 points......If someone has, please let me know.
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Old 09-28-2006, 02:55 AM   #4
Vinatieri for Prez
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Um, why would you ever think you could score 80 points in a game? Have you ever seen that in an NFL game? How often do you see a really good team in the NFL only win by 7 over a really bad team? If you're looking for these kind of results and super tactics, you should just play Madden.
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Old 09-29-2006, 03:49 PM   #5
demons19
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I figured most people would miss the point. It's not to score 80pts. It's to determine if this game is essentially rigged. For all the offensive and defensive bells and whistles in the game plan area, it appears from everything I read that none of it matters. If it did matter, then it should be conceivable to destroy your opponent.

Of course, that is not the NFL, granted. But if you manipulate the player talent and have a team of stars Vs a team of stiffs, in theory, you should be able to destroy the opponent 80-0. If an NFL team played a high school team, the score would be 80-0.

My point here is, it appears the game has been programmed to basically make sure every game is realistic or relatively close. Which means talent is not important, the game plan areas are useless and its all based on random luck.

Can someone prove this is wrong?

And, I want to be proved wrong. I would like to believe that you can have a large impact on the outcome based on your coaching, but I don't see it. Yes, in Madden, someone might have superior skill and crush the other guy. In the old fbpro, you clearly could out coach an inferior coach and crush him. I'm wondering if that is possible in this game.
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Old 09-29-2006, 03:55 PM   #6
Subby
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I think your research is pretty solid. Definitely rigged.
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Old 09-29-2006, 04:10 PM   #7
stevew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demons19 View Post
actually, I did just the opposite to see if it mattered.....used a different formation every play, mixed up run, short, medium.....it just doesn't matter. I truely believe the game is created to be random. I think its programmed so that you could never score 60-70-80 points......If someone has, please let me know.

I've only seen my team go over 60(62) one time in all my solo careers. And I think there were maybe 6 passing tds and 2 return td's. But i can't playcall at all, i think it's pretty close to your estimates.
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Old 09-29-2006, 04:25 PM   #8
Ben E Lou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demons19 View Post
Of course, that is not the NFL, granted. But if you manipulate the player talent and have a team of stars Vs a team of stiffs, in theory, you should be able to destroy the opponent 80-0. If an NFL team played a high school team, the score would be 80-0.
Here's the problem with this logic: even if you get a team of stars, you're not playing against a high school team. There is no player in the game who is less than NFL-caliber talent. You may think of the QB who has no ratings greater than 20 as your cousin who was the scout team QB at a I-AA school, but that thinking is incorrect: he is simply the worst NFL-level talent around. So, when you assemble a team of superstars versus a team of stiffs, think of a 49ers team from the 90's playing against Detroit or Arizona, not the Niners against Boulder High School. The Niners didn't go 16-0 ever, now did they?
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Old 09-29-2006, 05:20 PM   #9
Passacaglia
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Of course, if you really want to test this, use multi-player, and coach two teams. Stock one with good talent, and the other with guys in single-digit ratings. You wouldn't be able to call plays, but you could simulate the game a bunch of times.

Or if you're really tied to solo play, you could try the flip side of this coin. Field a team of stiffs, and see how much you can get beat.
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Old 09-29-2006, 08:15 PM   #10
Celeval
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demons19 View Post
I figured most people would miss the point. It's not to score 80pts. It's to determine if this game is essentially rigged. For all the offensive and defensive bells and whistles in the game plan area, it appears from everything I read that none of it matters. If it did matter, then it should be conceivable to destroy your opponent.

Well, you also have to take the mindset of a pro coach into account. If you're winning, handily in ANY game - you're not going to risk injury to score 80. You're going to go conservative in your playcalling, you're going to back off, you're going to play your subs.

That said, I started a SP career, full draft, took the worst players across the board (but took the best punter, just as a conceit), played 4-deep zone and played aggressive against the run, blitzing maxxed out every defensive play, and ran between the guards every offensive play, and here are the results.:

Best player - P Vincent Douglas: 89/91
Second player - RB Terrell Butler: 13/15

Record: 0-16
Average PPG Scored: 1.1 (32nd)
Highest Offensive Output: 7 points, week 15 (only TD of the season)
Average PPG Allowed: 27.0 (32nd)
Lowest Defensive Output: 15 points, week 8

FWIW, 5th in yards/carry allowed (3.69), 3rd in turnovers given up (12). Worst beating, 37-0. Closest game, 16-3. Best offensive performance: starting RB carried 308 times for 458 yards (1.48 average), and scored the only touchdown. Our punter led the league in punts, (157 to 103), yards (7119 to 4267), average (45.3), longest punt (69), but not on punts inside the 20.

Changing it up to throw deep every down ended up differently:

Record: 1-15
Average PPG Scored: 10.6 (32nd)
Highest Offensive Output: 24 points, week 4
Average PPG Allowed: 31.4 (32nd)
Lowest Defensive Output: 13 points, week 14

Only win, week 1 - 21-19. Worst loss, 41-7. We had several quality seasons from our wideouts: 32-843-7 was the best. Our QB was 120-701 for 2593 yards, 17 touchdowns, and 55 interceptions. -43 turnover margin was quality.

And finally, throwing just screens:

Record: 0-16
Average PPG Scored: 2.5 (32nd)
Highest Offensive Output: 10 points, week 1
Average PPG Allowed: 31.3 (32nd)
Lowest Defensive Output: 16 points, week 15

Closest game: 16-0, week 15. Worst loss, 48-7, week six. Starting QB - 178-550, 444 yards, 0 TD, 8 picks.

Point being... even trying to lose with an incredibly bad team, you're not going to give up tons of points, even though the games aren't close.
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Old 09-30-2006, 05:37 AM   #11
Poli
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Old 09-30-2006, 11:10 AM   #12
Passacaglia
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I'd do it without the full draft, to screw up your cohesion, and get a lot of conflicts.

Or just give the programmer good faith, since 80 points can happen pretty easily in TCY -- where you would expect it to happen more easily.
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Old 10-01-2006, 03:25 PM   #13
T-Storm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demons19 View Post
actually, I did just the opposite to see if it mattered.....used a different formation every play, mixed up run, short, medium.....it just doesn't matter. I truely believe the game is created to be random. I think its programmed so that you could never score 60-70-80 points......If someone has, please let me know.

If you play without any house rules and neither call your own plays nor feel the need for a running game, it's actually quite easy to put up 60 points. I'd say that happens about once a season.
In a couple of hundred years of FOF the most teams one of my teams managed to put up was either 80 or 87.
But again, this was done with a very one-dimensional pass game plan, the best QB and 4 of the best WR in that universe.
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Old 10-01-2006, 04:42 PM   #14
corbes
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The short answer to your first question is: Yes, it is possible to achieve different (and perhaps better) results through calling your own plays than through game-plan setting.

I have called most of the offensive plays in a 35-year career (save for most preseason games and the occasional blowout). In playcalling, it matters who you call the play for and where you send them. Better players perform demonstrably better in specific situations. I'm sorry that my evidence is only anecdotal and conclusory---I don't know what I could say that would substitute for the experience of calling your own plays game after game and learning that way.
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Old 10-09-2006, 08:13 PM   #15
demons19
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I guess I am sticking to rigged:-)
I have not seen any evidence to suggest otherwise. Plus, unless I am missing something, there is no way to scout your opponent. Sure, you know what players he has and it gives this one line about a players strength but it in no way tells you what formations/plays the other coach likes to call. It would seem important to know what the other coach does in some detail, no?

In the NFL, Bellichick doesn't just say, well, Chad Pennington has a weak arm so thats all we need to know.

Anyway, it sounds like I am complaining but I'm not, its a good game. I just was hoping there would be a real reason to call your own plays. There really is not though. It would be thru sheer luck that you sat there and selected a formation and then one of the 20 or so plays and completed a pass. Not because you found a weakness in the other team.
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Old 10-10-2006, 01:42 AM   #16
Vinatieri for Prez
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Why don't you check the game logs of your upcoming opponent? You can see every formation and play your opponent runs on defense and offense. You need to delve a little more deeply into the game before jumping to the wrong conclusions.
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:33 PM   #17
Celeval
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Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez View Post
Why don't you check the game logs of your upcoming opponent? You can see every formation and play your opponent runs on defense and offense. You need to delve a little more deeply into the game before jumping to the wrong conclusions.

Absolutely. Even with a small sample size, it's very worthwhile.
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Old 10-14-2006, 09:57 PM   #18
demons19
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Because I have a wife and kids:-)
This is not the NFL where I am going to break down the logs now. If the game does not easily allow you to disect the other team than it's not worth it. I guess if I played in a league against other people, I might......It's not that big a deal. I was just trying to understand the game better and now I do. The calling plays feature is essentially luck.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:55 AM   #19
Grammaticus
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I usually sim the first 2 to 3 quarters of my game, then jump in and call the plays for the rest.

For me, it generally results in 2-3 extra wins per season. Most likely because I can utilize particular players and styles when needed. I find this the only way to really utilze tight ends and feature WR/RB's the way I want too.

I look at the opposing teams statistical breakdown and player skills as part of my scouting approach. Takes about 5 minutes to review per game, if that.
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Old 10-16-2006, 09:32 PM   #20
Anthony
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez View Post
Um, why would you ever think you could score 80 points in a game? Have you ever seen that in an NFL game? How often do you see a really good team in the NFL only win by 7 over a really bad team?

who says he was trying to simulate the NFL in his particular league? you assume a lot in your post. perhaps he's just tinkering. excellent teams should destroy bad teams, in a vaccuum. in a vaccuum, a bad team should get slaughtered by a team of vastly superior talent. you don't see it in the NFL (even though i shouldn't be using that league given what this person was trying to accomplish) is perhaps by the time a team has scored 40, 50 pts the bench players have been inserted into the game and a more conservative, clock wasting gameplan was utilized. in the NFL with the salaries these guys make it's not logical to leave in your multi-million dollar players in a game that's already been decided just to reach the 70 or 80 point mark. it's also bad gamesmanship. but in a text sim game that doesn't take into consideration such outside factors then i agree with demons.
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Old 10-17-2006, 03:46 AM   #21
Vinatieri for Prez
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Uh, then perhaps he should play a game not based on the NFL, with its code set up to match real life NFL stats to some extent. Maybe he should try Maximum Football then if he is looking for 80 point games. I think Skydog's post hits it right. In FOF, all players are NFL talent even if rated at 20. So you are not going to get 80 point games. Simply put, a slaughter in FOF is 49-7. It's not 80-0.

Anyways, the guy complains that you can't scout teams like "Belichick does in the real NFL" (oops, I thought you said he wasn't trying to mimick the NFL game), but then we he is shown a way to do it in about 5 minutes, he complains that's a wast of time. Whatever.

Last edited by Vinatieri for Prez : 10-17-2006 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 10-29-2006, 03:15 PM   #22
Rizon
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When I do the playcalling I never repeat the same play twice, and mix up the formations evenly, as well as an even amount of run and pass.

The only things I note that happens differently if I call my own plays vs the computer:

1) Calling my own plays results in a lower AVG/R for my RB
2) more carries for my FB
3) virtually 0 YAC for the WR, but higher AVG/Rec
4) higher passing yards for the QB and higher % for the QB.
5) I also give up more yards against the pass, but less against the rush
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