Cracking the Goalie Price Levels

[Airhog]

Not quite there but I am getting really close, it will take some more sifting through data, but before long, we will know how close a goalie is to jumping up a level. I think with time we could figure it out for every player.....

[Nyarlahotep]

You can just ask for the keeper info on the HT forums.

[Airhog]

But wheres the fun in that? Besides I dont think the devs just give out that information. I eventually would like to have a comprehensive guide as too how much form, age, and stamina affect price. Right now Im focusing on the goalie. Its going to be really tough to predict the change age has, and stamina will be tough too, but I think its doable....

[Blade6119]

since i train keepers i kinda have an idea when they pop...

Ive found that they are inadaquate up until about 125,000-150,000

They hit solid around 250,000-275,000

They go up again at out 360,000-385,000

Thought this might help...

[Nyarlahotep]

The Dev's won't tell you, but keeper trainers will.

[Airhog]

Your probably right, but thats not going to keep me from finding out, besides if they tell the whole world, they would lose the edge they have buying keepers about to pop ;)

[mrushh]

If my keeper is 258k and passable, does that mean he could VERY possibly go solid with a week training? Will he eventually go to solid on his own, as he keeps going up in value with no keeper training, or do you have to train to "pop?"

[vex]

My solid Keeper in excellent form WAS valued at $427,000. However, today, he dropped to passable form. Dropped $40,000 in value and is now at $397,000:(

[vex]

Keepers don't go excellent anywhere around $360,000- $385,000.

$460,000-$485,000 is about right though.

[Nyarlahotep]

If he is in passable form he will probably pop in one week of keeper training. He would pop eventaully just from you having keepr coaches, but that would take a while.

And in passable form a solid keeper will hit excellent at about 500k. They would have to be in pretty bad form to pop around 375k.

[vex]

Yeah, like wretched:)

[Blade6119]

all depends on form...im seeing guys with low form(therefore lower value) pop at around 385,000...if they have good form the value shoots up...like you said, your guy dropped 40k because of 1 level in form....all depends on form in my mind...im dealing with the lower end

[Blade6119]

Originally posted by mrushh
If my keeper is 258k and passable, does that mean he could VERY possibly go solid with a week training? Will he eventually go to solid on his own, as he keeps going up in value with no keeper training, or do you have to train to "pop?"

At this value, whats his form....id say a week or two should put him over, but vexroid might say otherwise...:(

[vex]

That was 2 levels of form drop. Excellent to passable.

[vex]

Originally posted by Blade6119
At this value, whats his form....id say a week or two should put him over, but vexroid might say otherwise...:(

I'm just saying, I know that sterlingice's keeper was in solid form and worth $480,000 and didn't pop.

[Nyarlahotep]

at solid form it would be at least 550k I would think, probably more.

[Airhog]

Im still working on the data, but im getting close. I should have some results by tonight....

[Airhog]

Okay, I have finally finished this.


Note: All the players I looked at where younger than 28 years old. Im pretty sure that older players are worth less even though they have the same skills. Hopefully the age doesnt cause too much of a variance. These figures do not include the Stamina of a player, or any other skills a player has. This should be close enough though to decide approximately how many weeks you need to train to recieve a benefit in skills. It is my ultimate goal to figure out the true worth of skills. So you can look at any player, and quickly decide if he is going to level or not. This is a big task, but this has allowed us one step closer. If several people want the data, I have it in excel format and will make it available. Now on too the rankings. The data shown only covers the Weak-Solid ratings, I can easily add more ratings If needed






Poor Form
Skill Low Price High Price H Price/L Price
Weak 19000 47000 2.4737
Inadequate 48,000 109,000 2.2708
Passable 106,000 200,000 1.8868
Solid 201,000 344000 1.7114


Weak Form
Skill Low Price High Price H Price/L Price
Weak 27000 56000 2.0741
Inadequate 61,000 126,000 2.0656
Passable 135,000 235,000 1.7407
Solid 228,000 381,000 1.6711


Inadequate Form
Skill Low Price High Price H Price/L Price
Weak 29000 62000 2.1379
Inadequate 69,000 140,000 2.0290
Passable 142,000 252,000 1.7746
Solid 263,000 453,000 1.7224


Passable Form
Low Price High Price H Price/L Price
Weak 31000 74000 2.3871
Inadequate 75,000 160,000 2.1333
Passable 155,000 297,000 1.9161
Solid 296,000 525,000 1.7736

[Airhog]

I will eventually extend this information to include more ratings, and more forms, but the main problem is a lack of higher forms, and lower forms. So all of that information would have to be extrapolated, and might not be as accurate.

[sterlingice]

Great work, Airhog!

SI

[condors]

my goalie turned solid at 320k he has a solid form as well

[Easy Mac]

So quick keeper question:

this guy should pop in a week or 2, right:

Rafael Fernández
235_000_US$,_20 years, inadequate_form
Has disastrous experience and passable leadership abilities


Stamina: poor Keeper: passable
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous


this guy should pop in a week or 2:

Lucius Ledesma
226_000_US$,_20 years, inadequate_form
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities


Stamina: disastrous Keeper: passable
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous

And this guy should pop in 2-4 weeks when he is actually able to train:

Connie Griggs
133_000_US$,_19 years, passable_form
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities


Stamina: wretched Keeper: inadequate
Playmaking: poor Passing: poor
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous

[Nyarlahotep]

I think that last gut is two weeks from popping at most.

[FrogMan]

For what it's worth, my latest youth pull was an inadequate keeper valued at 144K. I decided to fire 3 of my 8 assistant coaches and hire 3 goalkeeping coaches and try to make him "pop" to passable by playing him in my friendly and training goalkeeping this week. Well, well, well, he popped!!! New value is 160K and he's going on the market in a few minutes, starting price 60 000$. Who wants a passable keeper for 60 000$, okay now you know he's a low passable, but still :)

FrogMan

[AccardoOutfit29]

I had 9 goaltending coaches for about 2 weeks or so and at the moment I have 3. I've been training goaltending for about 2 weeks now with my keeper. When can I expect him to "pop" to a solid?

Lionel Holton (10960937)
21 years, inadequate form, healthy

A pleasant guy who is calm and dishonest.
Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities.

Nationality: USA
Assessed value: 222 000 US$
Wage: 1 780 US$/week
Owner: McGees
Warnings: 0


Stamina: wretched Goaltending: passable
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: wretched

[Airhog]

I would have to say 2 weeks, 3 weeks tops

sorry I didnt figure in age... I would have to revise my statement and say Approximately 6 weeks to bump him up.

[dacman]

I'd say 3-4 weeks. He's 21 and only 3 GK coaches...yeah probably 4 weeks or so.

[Airhog]

Well After much thought, I have decided to not add in any more numbers. there is not enough data at the other skill levels, except maybe excellent to justify doing this. I also do not have enough data at the other form levels. However you should now be able to buy goalies and train them and make some decent cash. You should also be able to pull goalies and know if you should keep him and train, or sell.

If someone knows how much of an effect trainers have on training that would be helpful.

[dacman]

Airhog -- check the markets again on Monday. All the new listings due to youth pulls will be out there and there may be more to look at.

[Airhog]

dacman: maybe so, but it takes alot of work to sift through hundreds of players. besides I dont think many people here will be buying goalies that have skills worse than weak. I also dont think people here would be buying goalies better than solid to train. Im thinking about just focusing on weak-excellent goalies, and trying to get all the different forms. I also need to work out how much an injured goalie loses in worth....

Above excellent though, I dont think there would be enough data too come up with a good number, and I dont know enough about math to predict it.

[BishopMVP]

Some data to help you. I'm guessing this guy would pop to solid in one week, but I'm doing general next week to prepare for the showdown in my series, so we'll see if he can pop without goalie training.

Debendranath Ghosh (6573015)
22 Years Old

Stamina: weak Keeper: passable
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous

Form/Value
Disastrous 86,000
Wretched 123,000
Weak 205,000
Inadequate 245,000 (Stamina went from poor to weak)

[Airhog]

You can download the workbook here

http://home.swbell.net/cross11/hattrick.zip


Okay I have created a test version of my workbook. It includes a formula to determine how long it takes to train someone. I had to fill in alot of holes for the excellent players, but It should be somewhat accurate for them and all the rest. If you have a goalie that has other ratings better than poor or weak then it may take slightly longer for your goalie to increase. I tried not too add any goalies that were really good in other areas. I will not be here again until monday, Hopefully monday, I will be able to go back over my data, and further tune it, and maybe even add a few more categories. If you have any suggestions or comments please feel free to leave them here.

[daedalus]

Awesome work, Airhog! :)

Originally posted by vexroid
Keepers don't go excellent anywhere around $360,000- $385,000.

$460,000-$485,000 is about right though.Originally posted by Nyarlahotep
And in passable form a solid keeper will hit excellent at about 500k. They would have to be in pretty bad form to pop around 375k.

Sounds like 475 000 - 500 000 range in passable form. Do y'all mean that value with no secondary skills? Admittedly, the only two "secondary" skills I really ever see with keepers are stamina and set pieces. Would those make a difference? Much?

'Cuz, uhhh, if it does, according to this:Passable 155,000 297,000 1.9161
My passable goalkeeper with excellent stamina and passable set piece is an incredibly low passable at 174 000 in passable form. :(

[Airhog]

I think of all the stats, stamina, and set pieces influenece the price the least. Ive seen a few keepers that had good skills elsewhere and they were out of the ranges shown so I didnt include them.

[Vince]

Bumpity Bump.