The week 14 NFL thread (seriously there was no thread yet?)

[Honolulu_Blue]

My dad detests the Packers and Vikings because they are the ones who year in and year out compete with the Bears.

Poor Lions... Not even worthy of Warhammer's dad's hate.

[jbergey22]

Once again Alex Smith shows he can be a good QB if you just let him work out of the spread. $50 says next week the 49ers go back to "three yards and a cloud of dust" ball.

Off topic but you were right on about Moss. I wasnt seeing what you were at the time but he has completely fallen off the map.

As for the topic. I watched him lead a last minute drive against the Saints earlier this year and was impressive in the no huddle that particular time. I'm sure your right Singletary is too stubborn to do anything but what he thinks is correct.

[jbergey22]

Poor Lions... Not even worthy of Warhammer's dad's hate.

Lions are kind of like the Cubbies to me. Its hard to hate on them. I liked them a lot more when I could watch Barry Sanders on Thanksgiving.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Lions are kind of like the Cubbies to me. Its hard to hate on them.

One day you will learn to hate on them. Oh yes. And I will laugh and laugh and laugh.

I liked them a lot more when I could watch Barry Sanders on Thanksgiving.

So did everyone.

[Sun Tzu]

Off topic but you were right on about Moss. I wasnt seeing what you were at the time but he has completely fallen off the map.

Wow...I did not expect that. Thank you. My respect level just increased for you ten fold. It's not easy saying someone else was right about anything, especially when it involves an emotional game like Football. And yeah, I'm not in the least bit surprised he's a non-factor in Tennessee. He was a joke in Oakland too, and that's when he was in his prime.

As for the topic. I watched him lead a last minute drive against the Saints earlier this year and was impressive in the no huddle that particular time. I'm sure your right Singletary is too stubborn to do anything but what he thinks is correct.

I think coach Sing will be gone after this season, barring a miraculous performance that takes us deep into the playoffs. Frankly, I don't think we're nearly good enough to outplay a top tier team like the Giants in a playoff atmosphere, especially with Frank Gore out until next season. Sure we had the lead with less than :30 to play against the Saints and Falcons (thanks to great performances by Alex Smith), but our DB's just get lit up when it counts. It's going to be like this until we find some real CB's.

[Logan]

Just heard a guy call up WFAN to note that the guy to the right of the Jets' S&C coach tried to throw a shoulder into Carroll. Watched it again and looks like it's exactly what he did. Seeing four Jets guys side by side, legs braced wide, right up on that white line looks pretty bad.

League should take closer look at Alosi phalanx | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/13/league-should-talk-closer-look-at-alosi-phalanx/)

[jeff061]

Is there a rule against lining the sideline like that?

Not talking about the trip, clearly Alosi fits the Jets scumbag douchbaggery mold.

[Logan]

I don't think so. The edge of the white signals where people can/can't stand. Which is why it looks suspicious to me...to have four guys like that standing just on the edge, side by side, legs shoulder width apart, with two guys trying to make contact with the gunner.

[molson]

It looks intentional, but legal as long as you don't break the plane of the sideline or intentionally trip someone. Somebody probably saw on video that that gunner likes to take a wide turn out of bounds on kickoff coverage, so they lined those guys up there, maybe trying to slow him up on a play or two.

[molson]

Dola- which just seems like good coaching/scouting to me. If a gunner wants to utilize an area that's out of bounds, where your staff is entitled to be, it makes all the sense in the world to put some guys there and screw up his rythym.

[Logan]

Which would fly in the face of this Alosi guy being overcome with grief for his "heat of the moment" impulse, just another part of Rex Ryan's complete bullshit coaching philosophy.

[jeff061]

Well there is a difference between passively lining up and actually sticking your knee out. At least that's the line I was drawing.

[molson]

Well there is a difference between passively lining up and actually sticking your knee out. At least that's the line I was drawing.

Definitely, I'm just saying I don't think there's anything wrong with the "formation".

[jeff061]

That's my logic as well, was replying to Logan :).

Not that I disagree with him about Rex's coaching philosophy...

[molson]

I can almost picture Rex Ryan telling those guys,

"Hey, you're entitled to stand there, just don't move your feet. If that SOB comes flying down the sideline, stand your ground, don't move your feet. And hey, if you want to lean into him a little, go for it - just be subtle about it, and above all - don't move your feet!"

[RainMaker]

No offense, but fantasy QB and leading a team QB are two different things. In this case, it doess thow the dropoff between 2006 and 2007 though. He was already slipping before the elbow went out.
Fantasy or not, he was still a top 10 QB and potentially top 5 during his best years. I don't know if it's the elbow, knee or whatever, but his arm strength is pretty much gone now. Unfortunately for him, he doesn't quite realize it yet and still plays the game like he had the arm strength.

It's what happens to strong arm QBs who were never great at reading defenses when their arm starts to go.

[RainMaker]

They have a right to stand there but it's still bad for the league. They've been pretending they care about player safety so it's not looking good when a guy on the sideline is doing something that could potentially cause serious injury. I know there is a line between standing there and sticking your knee out, but in a way, both should be discouraged.

[kingfc22]

And the streak is over (supposedly Favre has been placed on the inactive list for tonight). How long until ESPN shows a montage of highlights from Favre's consecutive games started streak this afternoon?

[molson]

They have a right to stand there but it's still bad for the league. They've been pretending they care about player safety so it's not looking good when a guy on the sideline is doing something that could potentially cause serious injury. I know there is a line between standing there and sticking your knee out, but in a way, both should be discouraged.

The guy who stuck his leg out should be fired, but the if the NFL doesn't want guys standing there they should move the white line back, and make it a penalty for a player to run out on the sideline area during a play.

[Terps]

Good idea for Favre to end the streak, playing against the GGGGGGGG-Fense he might get hurt even worse.

[jbergey22]

I wonder if this isnt one of them hush hush Sterger deals. Later last week I had read he was going to take 1 or 2 snaps and come out to keep his streak in tact.

[jeff061]

I can't figure out why the christ she cares whether or not he gets suspended. Whole thing is weird. Jilted ex much? At least I can wrap my head around her trying to get paid.

Still, I don't think him sitting out and this are related.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

And the streak is over (supposedly Favre has been placed on the inactive list for tonight). How long until ESPN shows a montage of highlights from Favre's consecutive games started streak this afternoon?
just now. complete with dramatic music and ripken comparisons.

[JediKooter]

Welp, I know what channel I will not be watching the next couple of days.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Thats one good thing the Bill's did this year...Knock some of the remaining lustre(ie consecutive games started) off of Farve

[cougarfreak]

Here's what needs to happen, next time Rex has his boys line up there, a gunner needs to absolutely plow them.

[RainMaker]

I can't figure out why the christ she cares whether or not he gets suspended. Whole thing is weird. Jilted ex much? At least I can wrap my head around her trying to get paid.

Still, I don't think him sitting out and this are related.
She never saw him so she can't really be a jilted ex. She is the one who rejected his advances.

I don't know what she wants out of it. Maybe attention, maybe money, who knows.

My guess is she wants to sue and this was her way of not looking like a money grubber in the end. She can say she didn't want to sue and just wanted the league to take action when she knew from the start that the NFL is too pussy to punish Favre. But she had to when the league sat on their hands protecting their favorite player.

[miami_fan]

So the verdict is in from the Jets.

Suspension without pay for the rest of the season including the postseason and a fine of $25,000.

I was right. It still does not seem like enough. Oh well

[jbergey22]

This game is like watching a golf competition. Not much fan support either way.

[Lathum]

Oh boy, Jackson and AD knock knees and go down in a heap.

[Lathum]

So the verdict is in from the Jets.

Suspension without pay for the rest of the season including the postseason and a fine of $25,000.

I was right. It still does not seem like enough. Oh well

I dunno.

In no way am I forgiving what the guy did, it was an egregious lapse in judgment. But losing his job seems pretty harsh, especially because he likely never works again in that field and may have a family, etc...

Maybe I am just getting soft.

[Atocep]

So the verdict is in from the Jets.

Suspension without pay for the rest of the season including the postseason and a fine of $25,000.

I was right. It still does not seem like enough. Oh well

That's pretty fucking harsh. I think it's a very fitting punishment.

An assistant losing his job over that is life altering for him and his entire family.

[Lathum]

fucking Eli

[jbergey22]

Cmon Eli, get ur shit together.

[jeff061]

That's pretty fucking harsh. I think it's a very fitting punishment.

An assistant losing his job over that is life altering for him and his entire family.

Right.

People have been fired for less in this world. And it's just as life altering for them.

[Atocep]

Right.

People have been fired for less in this world. And it's just as life altering for them.

People die every day. People get fired every day. Worse things happen to all around the world. This could apply to just about every fucking thing posted on this board.

It doesn't matter. You failed to make a point.

The point here is the guy got punished very severely. He's not a guy making fuckloads of money. This is a fitting punishment.

I would be interested in hearing how many people you know that lost their job for tripping someone.

[Lathum]

JACOBS!!!!!

MVP MVP MVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jeff061]

1 person, threw a shoulder at someone in their way. That also happens to be the only person I know that assaulted someone else at work.

Cause everyone knows when you assault someone you get fired. There's a reason none of us has seen this before in a football game.

[jbergey22]

Giants figured out how to score. Dont let Eli throw.

[Atocep]

Cause everyone knows when you assault someone you get fired.

Haynesworth got fired for assaulting Gurode?

[jeff061]

Oh for christ sake. Players going full speed phyiscally at each other, things get heated. It's a different standard. Anyways done arguing with you. Clearly we disagree. And I am heavily biased. Fuck the Jets.

[sabotai]

Oh for christ sake. Players going full speed phyiscally at each other, things get heated. It's a different standard. Anyways done arguing with you. Clearly we disagree. And I am heavily biased. Fuck the Jets.

Everyone should remember this anytime they try to compare something that happens in a sport to what happens at their job (unless they work in sports, obviously).

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Aikman: "I didn't know I worked on Monday nights."

LOL

[Lathum]

Really excited being up after the first half considering the two terrible turnovers.

[Logan]

So the verdict is in from the Jets.

Suspension without pay for the rest of the season including the postseason and a fine of $25,000.

I was right. It still does not seem like enough. Oh well

I'd love to see his bank statements over the remainder of the season.

[RainMaker]

I would be interested in hearing how many people you know that lost their job for tripping someone.
I don't know many jobs that would be fine with you tripping someone maliciously at work. Usually the places I have worked for frowned against assault. In fact, it's usually in the employee handbook that it's automatic termination.

[RainMaker]

Is there anyway for me to watch this Viking-Giants game?

[Lathum]

Is there anyway for me to watch this Viking-Giants game?

channelsurfing.net

[MrBug708]

Is Johnson not even playing?

[fantom1979]

No offense, but fantasy QB and leading a team QB are two different things. In this case, it doess thow the dropoff between 2006 and 2007 though. He was already slipping before the elbow went out.

IMO, fantasy points scored are a pretty decent way of quickly figuring out a QB's performance for the year. If I was a GM, I would take 2007 Carson Palmer over 25 or so starters in the NFL right now. The guy was top ten in most QB stats that year with the 27th rated defense and the 24th rated running game (Kenny Watson was his starting RB).

[Terps]

Bring on Filthadelphia!

[Abe Sargent]

Mike T just sounded pissed at his fellow idiots talking about how it looked like a TD and should be challenged.

[sovereignstar v2]

HEY GUYZ HOW IS TARVARIS JACKSON DOING

[kingfc22]

Hell of a comeback effort by the Texans.

[kingfc22]

WOW!!!

[kingfc22]

If Houston gets the ball to start OT this game is over. Baltimore's defense is exhausted.

[PilotMan]

That was one hell of a second half for the Texans. You are right, the Ravens defense is gassed.

[EagleFan]

That's gotta suck after that comeback.

[PilotMan]

Wow, the Texans almost gave me an early Christmas present, but what way to finish the game. He just went to the well one to many times.

[Abe Sargent]

I did not see that pick coming - GREAT GAME!!!

[fpres]

This feels familiar. Ugh.

[Logan]

Nice cover by Baltimore.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I love the editors at espn.com. Why do they have jobs?

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/860/82026629.jpg

[RainMaker]

In fairness, they were likely typing with one hand.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

In fairness, they were likely typing with one hand.

LOLOLOLOLOL!

[miked]

Who was it in the last thread extolling the virtues of Tarvaris Jackson and why he was going to be great?

[Suburban Rhythm]

I'd love to see his bank statements over the remainder of the season.

Anyone know how to help him fudge a bank statement?

[DaddyTorgo]

I love the editors at espn.com. Why do they have jobs?

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/860/82026629.jpg

Seriously. ESPN.com is horrible, but even sites like cnn.com have more than their fair share of typos. I guess there's nobody at these websites responsible for actually ya know...proofreading stuff before it gets posted online. It kills me a little more inside every time.

[jbergey22]

Who was it in the last thread extolling the virtues of Tarvaris Jackson and why he was going to be great?


A lot of people have been calling for Jackson since about week 2. In their defense it probably has more to do with their hatred of Favre rather than how great they think Jackson will be.

Hopefully they watched Jackson's pathetic ass last night so we dont have to hear about it anymore.

[larrymcg421]

I would be interested in hearing how many people you know that lost their job for tripping someone.

Um, I'm not sure where you work, but if I confessed to maliciously tripping someone and especially if they got hurt (even temporarily) because of it, I would be walked out the door immediately.

[larrymcg421]

I wasn't the one most recently calling for Jackson, but I have defended him in the past. I'd say judging him after his 2nd start this season against one of the best defenses in the league is a bit silly, but not surprising given the hilarious overreactions we always get in the Week 1 and Week 2 NFL threads.

[jbergey22]

I wasn't the one most recently calling for Jackson, but I have defended him in the past. I'd say judging him after his 2nd start this season against one of the best defenses in the league is a bit silly, but not surprising given the hilarious overreactions we always get in the Week 1 and Week 2 NFL threads.

Certainly premature but it appears nothing much has changed. Even Aikman commented on how the Giants were in some pretty elementary defenses for Jackson to be misreading them on a consistent basis.

[JediKooter]

Hey, how did Brett Favre do last night? I haven't ANYTHING the last few days about his injury or consecutive games started streak.

[jbergey22]

Hey, how did Brett Favre do last night? I haven't ANYTHING the last few days about his injury or consecutive games started streak.

They flashed to him around 100 times during the game. He seemed to be doing ok. Surprised it wasnt mentioned how often fox showed his face during a game he wasnt playing.

[Logan]

Hey, how did Brett Favre do last night? I haven't ANYTHING the last few days about his injury or consecutive games started streak.

Don't worry, you can pay $500 for a ball that will never let you forget it.

[JediKooter]

They flashed to him around 100 times during the game. He seemed to be doing ok. Surprised it wasnt mentioned how often fox showed his face during a game he wasnt playing.

Incredible. Any word on how John Madden is doing? I mean, I'm sure this is a huge blow for him.

Don't worry, you can pay $500 for a ball that will never let you forget it.

That is tempting for sure, but, I might have to pass on that so I can save my money so I can get a ticket to a game next year to see him play. :)

[Mustang]

I wasn't the one most recently calling for Jackson, but I have defended him in the past. I'd say judging him after his 2nd start this season against one of the best defenses in the league is a bit silly,

Given his previous starting experience, his sitting on the bench for almost 2 seasons and now 2 starts, I think it is safe to say that Jackson isn't the answer.

Jbergey was correct in his hatred however they still needed to check Jackson out for a few weeks just to make sure that the past 2 years didn't somehow help him. Even if he has a solid last 3 weeks I wouldn't trust him enough to go into 2011 with him as a QB.

[Matthean]

Given his previous starting experience, his sitting on the bench for almost 2 seasons and now 2 starts, I think it is safe to say that Jackson isn't the answer.

Jbergey was correct in his hatred however they still needed to check Jackson out for a few weeks just to make sure that the past 2 years didn't somehow help him. Even if he has a solid last 3 weeks I wouldn't trust him enough to go into 2011 with him as a QB.

And even take the time to figure out if he's worth even being the number 2 guy. I think failing against basic packages even against good defenses is a sign you need to work on things if you want to be number 2, or accept the fact that he's a 3rd stringer.

[sovereignstar v2]

I had zero problems with them giving Tarvaris one more shot, but his glimpses have been few and far between since he became a Viking. Would love to see Webb the rest of the way, if only to prevent them from ruining their draft position. lol

[sovereignstar v2]

They just announced that next Monday's Vikings-Bears game will be played at the Gophers outdoor stadium. Woohoo!

Monday's Vikings-Bears game will be played at U's stadium; Dome won't be ready | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/local/111867304.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUo8cyaiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aU7DYaGEP7vDEh7P:DiUs)

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Seriously. ESPN.com is horrible, but even sites like cnn.com have more than their fair share of typos. I guess there's nobody at these websites responsible for actually ya know...proofreading stuff before it gets posted online. It kills me a little more inside every time.

I know... The number of times I have read an article on what are the websites of supposedly decent publications and seen blatant WTF's like information or even an entire paragraph repeated.

I don't know what's worse, that or an article that is padded with so much crap that you wonder if it was written by a third grader. I don't care what high school a 45 year old man graduated from. I don't care what his wife was cooking for dinner at the time. Leave the bullshit out.

[JPhillips]

In a world where first matters a hell of a lot more than correct, what's the economic incentive to do anything but a cursory proofread? All of the mistakes obviously haven't stopped you from visiting the website.

[jeff061]

Ross Tucker went from SI to ESPN. Which sucks, I liked Tucker's columns. But I just never bother stumbling my way through ESPN's site.

[BillJasper]

HEY GUYZ HOW IS TARVARIS JACKSON DOING

Who was it in the last thread extolling the virtues of Tarvaris Jackson and why he was going to be great?

A lot of people have been calling for Jackson since about week 2. In their defense it probably has more to do with their hatred of Favre rather than how great they think Jackson will be.

Hopefully they watched Jackson's pathetic ass last night so we dont have to hear about it anymore.

I had zero problems with them giving Tarvaris one more shot, but his glimpses have been few and far between since he became a Viking. Would love to see Webb the rest of the way, if only to prevent them from ruining their draft position. lol


I was one saying that, since their season was all but over, the Vikings needed to take a look at Jackson to see if he was going to be the solution to the QB position next year. I saw a lot of balls get batted down, which probably indicates he needs to work on his mechanics (did see a ball launched over his head).

The only thing last night convinced me of... was that the Vikings as a whole have given up.

Zygi Wilf needs to go ahead and blow the whole thing up and start over... that way he has a competitive product to put on the field when they go to Los Angeles.

[jbergey22]

I was one saying that, since their season was all but over, the Vikings needed to take a look at Jackson to see if he was going to be the solution to the QB position next year. I saw a lot of balls get batted down, which probably indicates he needs to work on his mechanics (did see a ball launched over his head).

The only thing last night convinced me of... was that the Vikings as a whole have given up.

Zygi Wilf needs to go ahead and blow the whole thing up and start over... that way he has a competitive product to put on the field when they go to Los Angeles.

LA has about as much of a chance of getting the Vikings as Jackson does winning a Super Bowl as a starting QB.

People were saying the same thing about the Giants last year and they seem to have recovered just fine. They still have a lot of good pieces. If they can continue to lose and get a top 10 pick they can hopefully bring in one of the 3-4 potential franchise QBs in this years draft and be just fine. Zygi isnt afraid to spend money so I doubt they will spend much time rebuilding.

Minnesota tends to wait until the last possible moment to get anything done. The Twins were already booking their flight to South Carolina 8-9 years ago. The fan support for the Vikings in this state is MUCH greater so Id speculate when it is all said and done the politicians will have to bend. I wont be too worried until its actually a done deal. It seems all political at this point to me.


Its ok to admit you were wrong about Jackson being a QB that is actually worth looking at without getting on the defensive.;)

Sorry about the f-ed paragraph settings there. I added a paragraph and it wouldnt let me copy/paste so I just decided to leave it as is.

[RainMaker]

The NFL swings so rapidly that it's tough to call a team down and out. They still have the best back in football and some solid pieces on both sides of the ball. I think the Favre circus all year was a big distraction, and the fact he didn't get to work with the offense all preseason.

It's not like the NFC North has a dominant team right now.

[SteveMax58]

Incredible. Any word on how John Madden is doing? I mean, I'm sure this is a huge blow for him.


Brett's been texting him so he's probably doing just fine.

[Ksyrup]

Ross Tucker went from SI to ESPN. Which sucks, I liked Tucker's columns. But I just never bother stumbling my way through ESPN's site.

Hopefully they traded Rick Reilly back to SI. That guy has always been a putz, but I don't get the move - he seems less visible on the network of 1000 stars than when he was at SI. He seems to do a bi-monthly article that never gets featured (and is usually a stupid and/or obvious topic anyway) and occasionally someone will have the bad idea to put his ugly mug on TV. Other than that, he seems to have taken a step down from his top dog status at SI.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

As of next Monday, the Vikings will have played three straight home games in three different stadiums. Weird.

[jbergey22]

As of next Monday, the Vikings will have played three straight home games in three different stadiums. Weird.

When things go bad they can really get bad in a hurry.

This should work in the Bears favor being an outdoor team and just playing a game in the cold, athough not an impressive game.

Most disappointing season I can remember and its not simply because of their poor record. The week in and week out soap opera is just pathetic. Plenty of teams having good years are being put on the back page because of how much of a joke this Vikings team was this season.

If someone had told me prior to the season that AP would have went 13 games without fumbling I would have guessed the Vikings for 10+ wins. AP+Harvin were the only 2 Vikings that deserved their pay this year IMO.

[JediKooter]

Brett's been texting him so he's probably doing just fine.

That is awfully nice of Brett. Hopefully he doesn't accidentally text John the pics he sent to the lady that worked for the Jets.

[Mustang]

This should work in the Bears favor being an outdoor team and just playing a game in the cold, athough not an impressive game.



I think that them using Webb or possibly the fan sitting in section 100, row 5, seat 13 as the starting QB is bigger than the cold and being outdoors.

[JS19]

Giants' Smith is done for the year with a knee injury. Just fought his way back from a partially torn pectoral muscle, now this. Hopefully it's not anything that will sidetrack his career. Manningham suffered a hip flexor, too... not good news going into the biggest game of the yr. Feel bad for Smith, besides being extremely productive, he was one of my favorites. One of the most underrated WR's, imo. Everyone remembers Tyree's amazing catch and Plax's TD catch during the Super Bowl, but Smith kept that game winning drive alive with a tough 12 yd catch on 3rd and 11, I feel like he never got the credit he deserves for that one.

EDIT: For anyone interested, here's the "forgotten catch"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBh6Y3Rp73c

[Ksyrup]

So after a few days of this undercurrent running through the Jets/Dolphins tripping incident about them forming a wall on the sideline, apparently Sal decided we CAN handle the truth - YOUR DAMN RIGHT HE ORDERED THE CODE RED!

[Logan]

Yes, it makes all the sense in the world that the strength and conditioning coach was the one who noticed the gunner running wide and instructed players to stand with him to form a wall. There is no way he was told to do that by the Special Teams coach, or the Head Coach who had his eyes fixed on the gunner tripping and falling despite the ball being 40 yards downfield.

[SirFozzie]

yeah, there's definitely a cover up going on here.

Let me just say, for all the deserved Spygate stuff the Pats and their fans received, the New Yorkers went above and beyond the call of fandom (in general, not FOFC). So, this incident, combined with the Monday Night game two weeks ago?

Delicious. Absolutely Delicious.

[TroyF]

Yes, it makes all the sense in the world that the strength and conditioning coach was the one who noticed the gunner running wide and instructed players to stand with him to form a wall. There is no way he was told to do that by the Special Teams coach, or the Head Coach who had his eyes fixed on the gunner tripping and falling despite the ball being 40 yards downfield.


Not to mention that when an employee supposedly lies about something this major, you don't fire him, you just make it an "indefinite" suspension.

Of course this guy will lose his job. And he'll get a crap load of hush money from the Jets to keep his mouth shut on his way out.

[miked]

As as Jets fan, I'll be the first to say that maybe Nolan Carroll shouldn't have run 25 yards on the wrong side of the white zone.

It really is ugly and I would think this would lead to a firing. Though I'm not seeing any evidence that Ryan told him to set up a human wall and trip him. Ryan was probably eating a cheeseburger when it happened.

[TroyF]

As as Jets fan, I'll be the first to say that maybe Nolan Carroll shouldn't have run 25 yards on the wrong side of the white zone.

It really is ugly and I would think this would lead to a firing. Though I'm not seeing any evidence that Ryan told him to set up a human wall and trip him. Ryan was probably eating a cheeseburger when it happened.

I'm so sick of hearing about the gunner running out of bounds. As though it's his fault that the Jets cheated to take him out.

If you run out of bounds too long, there is a flag thrown. If a team sees a guy doing something wrong, you talk to the ref. It's not HIS fault, the Jets acted like douche bags.

I'm also sick of the "no evidence" garbage. 6 Jets line up in a wall, foot to foot and Ryan looks right at it. After the game, when video footage is clearly available to show what took place, the Jets first tried to deny the trip happened, then tried to look the other way and pretend it was the action of one guy.

The fact the NFL hasn't investigated this themselves after the initial video is a disgrace.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Time to put an asterisk on the Jets' week 2 Super Bowl win.

[Logan]

As as Jets fan, I'll be the first to say that maybe Nolan Carroll shouldn't have run 25 yards on the wrong side of the white zone.

Gross exaggerations are fun. He was pushed out of bounds at the 25 and Alosi made contact at the 32/33. He's not required to immediately return to being in bounds, but to make an effort. How long does it take to cover 7-8 yards when running at close to full speed?

[molson]

I'm so sick of hearing about the gunner running out of bounds. As though it's his fault that the Jets cheated to take him out.

If you run out of bounds too long, there is a flag thrown. If a team sees a guy doing something wrong, you talk to the ref. It's not HIS fault, the Jets acted like douche bags.

I'm also sick of the "no evidence" garbage. 6 Jets line up in a wall, foot to foot and Ryan looks right at it. After the game, when video footage is clearly available to show what took place, the Jets first tried to deny the trip happened, then tried to look the other way and pretend it was the action of one guy.

The fact the NFL hasn't investigated this themselves after the initial video is a disgrace.

I understand the trip being an automatic firing/penalty if the ref sees it - but what's the problem with standing on your own sideline however you want? How far back do they need to stand to give the gunner free reign to run on their sideline?

Edit: I don't know the point of these lines seperating the field and the sideline if the coaches are just expected to accomodate the opposing players and wherever they want to run.

[TroyF]

By the way, my anger comes from the latest tidbit on PFT. Evidently the special teams coach is saying "the Patriots do it too!!!" as part of his defense.

Give me an F'n break. This isn't the time to blame Carrol. It's not the time to throw other teams under the bus. It's the time to do an investigation, fire ALL of the people involved in the scheme and move forward.

The Jets are just very, very lucky in this whole thing. Obviously, if the player had suffered a major injury, there is no doubt the team would be punished. Beyond that, what if the punt returner takes it to the house and the Jets win 13-10? I can promise you draft picks would have been lost. The Jets shouldn't be putting blame on anyone right now. It's not the time or the place.

[Logan]

I understand the trip being an automatic firing/penalty if the ref sees it - but what's the problem with standing on your own sideline however you want? How far back do they need to stand to give the gunner free reign to run on their sideline?

Edit: I don't know the point of these lines seperating the field and the sideline if the coaches are just expected to accomodate the opposing players and wherever they want to run.

The area they were standing in is reserved for "coaches and situational substitution players only". Inactive players (the other members of the wall) do not belong there. Furthermore, he made contact at the 25 yard line. He can't be closer than the 32.

From the NFL rulebook:

Rule 13, Article 5 Coaches and other non-participating team personnel (including uniformed players not in the game at the time) are prohibited from moving laterally along the sidelines any further than the points that are 18 yards from the middle of the bench area (i.e., 32-yard lines to left and right of bench areas when benches are placed on opposite sides of the field). Lateral movement within the bench area must be behind the solid six-foot white border

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/nfl-bench-area.png

[TroyF]

I understand the trip being an automatic firing/penalty if the ref sees it - but what's the problem with standing on your own sideline however you want? How far back do they need to stand to give the gunner free reign to run on their sideline?

Edit: I don't know the point of these lines seperating the field and the sideline if the coaches are just expected to accomodate the opposing players and wherever they want to run.

In my post, I'm talking about the gunner running down the sidelines. if he does it for too long, it's a penalty on his team. I know people are stickler for the damned rules and I can fall into that category. But do you think the rules were meant so guys could form walls on the sidelines and not make an effort to get out of the way if they see someone coming at them?

I don't.

If the Jets didn't think this was that big of a deal, why did they change the suspension when they found out a wall was set up?

[Abe Sargent]

I just don't buy that a Strength and Condition coach had the authority to make a football decision like this on his own.

[molson]

Interesting - I see those lines now on the photos of the incident. Though I'm not sure what to make of the "from moving laterally" qualification, which appears to mean they can stand there in one place.

[Logan]

By the way, my anger comes from the latest tidbit on PFT. Evidently the special teams coach is saying "the Patriots do it too!!!" as part of his defense.

He also said that all teams do it.

But he didn't know his team did it. All season, according to a quote from player Jeff Cumberland:

"We've been doing that since the beginning of the year, standing right there. Sunday was not the first time that we'd been doing that," Cumberland said.

But yet GM Mike Tannenbaum denies this:

"Over the last day as we continued our investigation we discovered some new information," Tannenbaum said. "The players at the Miami game were instructed by Sal to stand where they were forcing the gunner in the game to run around them. Based on that new information we've suspended Sal indefinitely, pending further review."

[molson]

If the Jets didn't think this was that big of a deal, why did they change the suspension when they found out a wall was set up?

No idea. But I don't think anyone's cited this "anti-wall" rule yet.

[Logan]

Interesting - I see those lines now on the photos of the incident. Though I'm not sure what to make of the "from moving laterally" qualification, which appears to mean they can stand there in one place.

It means they can only move between the 32 yard lines and cannot go beyond those marks.

[Logan]

It would be much more refreshing if the Jets just came out and said "we fucked up." They've been lying about this, in one form or another, since it happened.

[molson]

I'm sure I've seen players (including those in warmups) that close to the field in games before. This is a non-issue unless some idiot doesn't trip a player running down the sideline.

[Logan]

I'm sure I've seen players (including those in warmups) that close to the field in games before. This is a non-issue unless some idiot doesn't trip a player running down the sideline.

It's an issue because anyone with a brain can see that one coach using his knee to trip a player while another player attempted to throw a shoulder into a player is a premeditated act that is beyond the bullshit excuses that keep getting thrown out.

Rex Ryan is staring at this as it is all happening. Seriously, how many times do you see the head coach of a football team not following the ball and the play on the field and instead focusing on something else?

edit: I changed the wording in that last sentence to not so clearly describe a pretty rare situation.

[DaddyTorgo]

As as Jets fan, I'll be the first to say that maybe Nolan Carroll shouldn't have run 25 yards on the wrong side of the white zone.

It really is ugly and I would think this would lead to a firing. Though I'm not seeing any evidence that Ryan told him to set up a human wall and trip him. Ryan was probably eating a cheeseburger when it happened.

Pretty sure Carroll was forced out of bounds by the Jets players...once they give him a shove in the direction he's going how exactly is he supposed to stop again? Particularly when he's only covering 7-8 yards, as someone else pointed out above.

[DaddyTorgo]

By the way, my anger comes from the latest tidbit on PFT. Evidently the special teams coach is saying "the Patriots do it too!!!" as part of his defense.

Give me an F'n break. This isn't the time to blame Carrol. It's not the time to throw other teams under the bus. It's the time to do an investigation, fire ALL of the people involved in the scheme and move forward.

The Jets are just very, very lucky in this whole thing. Obviously, if the player had suffered a major injury, there is no doubt the team would be punished. Beyond that, what if the punt returner takes it to the house and the Jets win 13-10? I can promise you draft picks would have been lost. The Jets shouldn't be putting blame on anyone right now. It's not the time or the place.

Not that they typically show camera angles of this, but I've never seen other teams doing it - particularly not this blatantly, where they actually move to try to initiate contact with the player.

[stevew]

Fuck the cunty jets. I hope the steelers smack the shit out of them and hurt that bitch ass mark sanchez fuck.

[DaddyTorgo]

I just don't buy that a Strength and Condition coach had the authority to make a football decision like this on his own.

Of course he doesn't. Guy probably can't take a shit without asking someone higher up.

[molson]

I'm no Jets fan, but I'm personally taking more satisfaction from their late-season collapse than from people jumping all over them for where some guys were standing on the sideline.

[sovereignstar v2]

Patrick Ramsey, come on down.

Patrick Ramsey agrees to terms with Vikings | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/15/patrick-ramsey-looks-like-the-pick-in-minnesota/)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Patrick Ramsey, come on down.

Patrick Ramsey agrees to terms with Vikings | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/15/patrick-ramsey-looks-like-the-pick-in-minnesota/)

Is it possible the that the starting NCF North QBs for next week could be:

Matt Flynn
Drew Stanton
Patirck Ramsey/Whoever the hell "Webb" is?
Jay Cutler

A fall far from grace from the Week 1 foursome of:

Aaron Rodgers
Matthew Stafford
Brett Favre
Jay Cutler

[miked]

Yeah, I was being fairly tongue-in-cheek about the gunner being out of bounds, I guess people need to turn on their sarcasm meter or just chill the fuck out about something fairly insignificant. This is no game changing event and the "seriously" injured player was on the field a few plays later.

If you honestly don't think your team is pulling some "crap" that you hate other teams for, you are on drugs or just clearly have no clue how people are playing the game. As players have stated, if you ain't cheetin' you ain't tryin. That's the fact. Do I wish the Jets didn't do that? Sure. Do I think it made a difference or it's something other teams aren't trying? Get real.

[jeff061]

Deleted cause this was covered and I'm blind :D(Jets lame accusation against Pats).

[Matthean]

Is it possible the that the starting NCF North QBs for next week could be:

Matt Flynn
Drew Stanton
Patirck Ramsey/Whoever the hell "Webb" is?
Jay Cutler

A fall far from grace from the Week 1 foursome of:

Aaron Rodgers
Matthew Stafford
Brett Favre
Jay Cutler

Even the NFC West is offended. :lol:

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm so sick of hearing about the gunner running out of bounds.

Why? It's a major part of the story, it's the reason this is fairly commonplace (according to Steve Tasker (http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/33675/steve-tasker-on-sal-alosi-uproar-so-what), among others), and why I'm not particularly bothered by anything about the incident other than an ass't coach being dumb enough to make it so obvious.

As Tasker put it If a gunner is going to use the sideline as a weapon, like I did, why wouldn't you want to form a road block?"

If they'd been more subtle & the gunner had gotten KTFO'ed it would have been downright funny.

[DaddyTorgo]

Why? It's a major part of the story, it's the reason this is fairly commonplace (according to Steve Tasker (http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/33675/steve-tasker-on-sal-alosi-uproar-so-what), among others), and why I'm not particularly bothered by anything about the incident other than an ass't coach being dumb enough to make it so obvious.

As Tasker put it If a gunner is going to use the sideline as a weapon, like I did, why wouldn't you want to form a road block?"

If they'd been more subtle & the gunner had gotten KTFO'ed it would have been downright funny.

color me unsurprised about which side of this you come down on.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Is it possible the that the starting NCF North QBs for next week could be:

Matt Flynn
Drew Stanton
Patirck Ramsey/Whoever the hell "Webb" is?
Jay Cutler

A fall far from grace from the Week 1 foursome of:

Aaron Rodgers
Matthew Stafford
Brett Favre
Jay Cutler

We need Todd Collins back in there fo Da'Bears!

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Outside of Jets schadenfreude I actually agree with Jon completely. Guy shouldn't have stuck his knee out. But if he doesn't and the gunner runs in to them, then its on the gunner. Run in bounds if you don't want to hit someone out of bounds. The whole thing about the inactive players vs. subs thing is almost more of a technicality here - no one is really arguing that, everyone's saying they shouldn't have been there in the first place.

[DaddyTorgo]

Outside of Jets schadenfreude I actually agree with Jon completely. Guy shouldn't have stuck his knee out. But if he doesn't and the gunner runs in to them, then its on the gunner. Run in bounds if you don't want to hit someone out of bounds. The whole thing about the inactive players vs. subs thing is almost more of a technicality here - no one is really arguing that, everyone's saying they shouldn't have been there in the first place.

But the guy did stick his knee out - that's the thing.

And what if you have the 2 Jets players "guiding" the guy towards this wall of coaches? Is that still "okay" ??

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

What do you mean by guiding? If they're allowed to stand where they were standing (at its my understanding that they are - maybe not WHO was standing there but that's beside my point) then how is it guiding?

edit: Ah, you're saying the blockers are pushing the gunner towards the wall? Don't think that's what's happened here.

[miked]

But the guy did stick his knee out - that's the thing.

And what if you have the 2 Jets players "guiding" the guy towards this wall of coaches? Is that still "okay" ??

I'm not sure the coverage guys were "guiding" the player as you point out; it is fairly common practice to push the gunner toward the out-of-bounds area, force him to try and get back in. It's also become fairly common for these gunners to lineup next to the boundary and try and pass the coverage guys while making your way back in. It is strategically done and while I think the trainer was way out of bounds, I don't see any reason not to form a wall where you don't want the opposing players to be (and if you think the Jets are the only ones doing this, you are crazy).

[Logan]

He had SEVEN yards between where he first started getting pushed out and where the contact took place. Again I'll ask...with a guy attempting to run at full speed, how quickly could he have returned to the field of play while only covering seven yards? The player is not required to stop his momentum and return to the field of play immediately.

[ISiddiqui]

How "Tripgate" Went Down, And How It's Practiced Around The League (http://deadspin.com/5713868/how-tripgate-went-down-and-how-its-practiced-around-the-league)

So why are the Jets the only team to do this? They're not. We spoke to one former NFLer who made stops with three teams, and he says each one pulled the exact same stunt. Inactive players would crowd the sidelines to funnel the gunners inward. "Not on every punt, to avoid being too obvious." But in key situations, like late, close games or when field position was crucial.

Even more interesting is the player's contention that no one ever had to tell him or the other players about forming the wall, but rather "it was just something that everyone knew how to do." The decision when to do it would come from a coach or respected player, but the actual tactic itself is a piece of institutional memory, passed vertically through the years, and horizontally from team to team, to the point where no one knows where and when it might have started.

[DaddyTorgo]

How "Tripgate" Went Down, And How It's Practiced Around The League (http://deadspin.com/5713868/how-tripgate-went-down-and-how-its-practiced-around-the-league)

Which is all fine and good. They have a right to stand there, that's fine. Nobody's arguing that. But they don't have a right to go intentionally sticking body parts out of the designated area (knees or shoulders or whatever) in an attempt to make contact with a player. That's bush league BS and hopefully some player takes advantage of their right to slam into those guys at full speed to remind them of that.

[ISiddiqui]

Is anyone defending Alosi tripping the player? I must have missed that.

[DaddyTorgo]

Is anyone defending Alosi tripping the player? I must have missed that.

Sure seemed like it to me. All the posts like "well he had a right to stand there" (which nobody is arguing) without noting that he actively moved a body part outside of the area to try to trip a guy are essentially doing that - trying to excuse his behavior by overlooking that part of the equation.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Sure seemed like it to me. All the posts like "well he had a right to stand there" (which nobody is arguing) without noting that he actively moved a body part outside of the area to try to trip a guy are essentially doing that - trying to excuse his behavior by overlooking that part of the equation.

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/h42kTrO8ZA4&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/h42kTrO8ZA4&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></embed></object>

Which is to say, this is much ado about nothing.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Also, Terrell Suggs is like a jilted lover.

[molson]

Sure seemed like it to me. All the posts like "well he had a right to stand there" (which nobody is arguing) without noting that he actively moved a body part outside of the area to try to trip a guy are essentially doing that - trying to excuse his behavior by overlooking that part of the equation.

People are definitely arguing that they shouldn't have been standing there, in that formation. People are FREAKING out over this.

I don't think anybody's arguing that the trip is OK. (Though I think I've seen some making fun of those who think this is the biggest tragedy in the history of the NFL.)

[molson]

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Which is to say, this is much ado about nothing.

The impact on youtube to our society is fascinating. This play happened a few months before youtube started up, and a few years before youtube got really huge. If this happened today, we'd be talking about it 24/7 and people would be calling for the Patriots to forfeit draft picks (if not the game).

Yes, it was more subtle than a trip, but Bellichick is a lot smarter than that strength and conditioning coach.

[Logan]

It's okay, he was trying to trip a future murderer.

[molson]

It's okay, he was trying to trip a future murderer.

It wouldn't shock me in the least if Bellichick solved crimes and thwarted criminals in his spare time. Maybe that was indeed the one moment where those two worlds intersected.

[miked]

Sure seemed like it to me. All the posts like "well he had a right to stand there" (which nobody is arguing) without noting that he actively moved a body part outside of the area to try to trip a guy are essentially doing that - trying to excuse his behavior by overlooking that part of the equation.

He was wrong to trip him, it could have injured the player. I hope he gets in bigger trouble. That being said, every team is doing something similar to this. Maybe their coach isn't putting him knee out to trip, but they are all instructing their players to do things outside the rules to benefit their teams.

[larrymcg421]

The thing is, if it's not such a big deal for the guys to be standing there, why the cover up? Why did Alosi lie about it? And why are Ryan and/or Wuesthoff probably lying about it (considering I doubt Alosi acted alone)? If it's such a routine thing, then why are the Jets themselves "overreacting" to this by extending the punishment and emphatically insisting that only Alosi was involved. I mean, if it really is such a routine thing, then the Jets come off just as bad, because the way they handled this makes them look like a bunch of dumbasses.

[molson]

The thing is, if it's not such a big deal for the guys to be standing there, why the cover up? Why did Alosi lie about it? And why are Ryan and/or Wuesthoff probably lying about it (considering I doubt Alosi acted alone)? If it's such a routine thing, then why are the Jets themselves "overreacting" to this by extending the punishment and emphatically insisting that only Alosi was involved. I mean, if it really is such a routine thing, then the Jets come off just as bad, because the way they handled this makes them look like a bunch of dumbasses.

Even if it wasn't such a routine thing, the Jets are coming off as bad here. They should have just fired the guy and moved on without saying anything else. Staff shouldn't trip players during the game. In any sport. Simple, done.

And there's no reason for the Jets to come out and defend any practice of setting up players in certain places on the sidelines. (And actually - didn't somebody on the staff say something about the Patriots doing this? That guy got torn apart.) Easier just to deny and move on.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The Jets are proving as capable of handling this circus as they have been any of the other ones since Ryan came aboard.

[jeff061]

The Jets know how to be loud and belligerent.

In short, they are a bunch of dumbasses. If being loud and brash is not the fix to a problem, they're screwed.

[TroyF]

The thing is, if it's not such a big deal for the guys to be standing there, why the cover up? Why did Alosi lie about it? And why are Ryan and/or Wuesthoff probably lying about it (considering I doubt Alosi acted alone)? If it's such a routine thing, then why are the Jets themselves "overreacting" to this by extending the punishment and emphatically insisting that only Alosi was involved. I mean, if it really is such a routine thing, then the Jets come off just as bad, because the way they handled this makes them look like a bunch of dumbasses.


This is exactly where I fall on this. If this happens all of the time, why the cover up from the Jets. We all know this S&C coach didn't come up with this on his own. It's asinine to even think he did. This was obviously coached. Now, if it's coached around the league, it should be very simple to come up with some coaches tape to prove it. This should take all of about one Sunday's games worth of pictures.

The Jets then say, "Yeah, we formed a wall, like everyone else does and here is the proof. Our idiot got carried away and he's no longer a part of the organization"

Instead, they only went to the "other teams do it" argument after they realized people weren't 100% stupid and could see for themselves what happened.

Another thing about this that strikes me is how some players say this happens all of the time, but other players are oblivious to it. I heard Steve Winston of the Texans on Rome the other day (God, I hate that show, it was the only station that would come in) and he was in genuine shock at the entire thing.

Lastly, Jon, in this case there is more of a problem with the wall then the idiot coach sticking out his knee (and the other coach trying to throw a shoulder). Most of the guys on this wall were standing in illegal positions. I know you, as a stickler for the rules, will understand how the statement "the wall is legal, they went to the letter of the law" is in contradiction with "sure, the guys who were standing there were not there legally, but there is no problem"

Again, if you have a problem with a gunner running too far out of bounds and staying out for long, then talk to the league and the refs. There is a rule in the books on that one and the gunner can and should get flagged. The solution isn't to put people in a position where players can get injured.

The Jets screwed up and then tried to cover it up. They are STILL trying to cover it up. If it isn't a big deal, why go through this? It doesn't add up.

[molson]

So let's say the Jets are the first team in the history of the NFL to intentionally have players stand close to the sideline for the purpose of screwing up the rhythm of the gunner. So what? Shouldn't that have been, at most, a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty (if the refs wanted to enforce that rule for the first time in NFL history?)

Edit: The Jets are very clumsily manuvering through the PR aspects of all this. I don't see that as proof of some grand, sophisticated cover-up. They're just a bad company.

[JediKooter]

Maybe the Jets have Isiah Thomas in the front office? I heard he's a classy guy and would fit right in with the Jets head coach.

[TroyF]

So let's say the Jets are the first team in the history of the NFL to intentionally have players stand close to the sideline for the purpose of screwing up the rhythm of the gunner. So what? Shouldn't that have been, at most, a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty (if the refs wanted to enforce that rule for the first time in NFL history?)

Edit: The Jets are very clumsily manuvering through the PR aspects of all this. I don't see that as proof of some grand, sophisticated cover-up. They're just a bad company.

1) In this case, there were not one, but two guys who intentionally tried to take out the gunner, not just stand passively. (again, watch the third guy's shoulder) That combined with Ryan watching the entire thing makes it fairly obvious the goal of this wasn't only to stand around, it was to knock the player off his feet.

That's not a 15 yard penalty. That is severe fines and draft picks to the organization.

2) Assuming they were the first team who ever did this and the guy doesn't stick his knee out? I don't even think it's a fine. It's a memo from the NFL saying get the hell back and if we ever catch any of you doing it again, you'll be very sorry.

3) Assuming every team does some form of it now? It's the same memo as above.

However, #1 is the biggest thing here. I don't think this was a random act by a guy who let his emotions get carried away. This was premeditated and if he hadn't kneed him the other guy would have thrown his shoulder into him. And Rex watched it all the way through. If I'm the commish, I give the Jets a call and say something like this:

I have enough video evidence to know there is more to this than what you are telling me. I'm starting at a 7th round pick right now and will be moving that up a round every thirty minutes I don't have the full story. If you want to lose a first round pick to save some suspensions, be my guest. Talk to you later, good bye.

[molson]

1) In this case, there were not one, but two guys who intentionally tried to take out the gunner, not just stand passively. (again, watch the third guy's shoulder) That combined with Ryan watching the entire thing makes it fairly obvious the goal of this wasn't only to stand around, it was to knock the player off his feet.

That's not a 15 yard penalty. That is severe fines and draft picks to the organization.

2) Assuming they were the first team who ever did this and the guy doesn't stick his knee out? I don't even think it's a fine. It's a memo from the NFL saying get the hell back and if we ever catch any of you doing it again, you'll be very sorry.

3) Assuming every team does some form of it now? It's the same memo as above.

However, #1 is the biggest thing here. I don't think this was a random act by a guy who let his emotions get carried away. This was premeditated and if he hadn't kneed him the other guy would have thrown his shoulder into him. And Rex watched it all the way through. If I'm the commish, I give the Jets a call and say something like this:

I have enough video evidence to know there is more to this than what you are telling me. I'm starting at a 7th round pick right now and will be moving that up a round every thirty minutes I don't have the full story. If you want to lose a first round pick to save some suspensions, be my guest. Talk to you later, good bye.

So you think Rex Ryan told the strength and conditioning coach to trip any Dolphins running down the sideline? (Is that the "full story" you suspect?) And you think you have enough evidence of that to start taking away draft picks?

This is the problem with conspiracy theories, they look at how people react and assume that every action, everything everyone says must be 100% perfectly tailored to some goal. "Why did they say this, why did they do this?" People and organizations (espeically the Jets and Rex Ryan) are just not that precise.

What is the "right" way for the Jets to have responded to this if, let's assume, Rex Ryan didn't actually order a "hit"? There's no perfect answer to that. And yet if they deviate from your specific expectations of how everyone should act - they they must be guilty of some far-flung conspiracy. To trip a player. On TV. And think nobody will notice. Whatever.

[miked]

From the other threads, Troy obviously has awesome insider knowledge because he always knows the thoughts, motivations, and inner workings of everything in the NFL. He's a seer of sorts.

They are idiots for the cover up...that's it. Everyone is doing it so just take the blame. Clearly there is no need to lose picks for something so minor. Clearly there are guys pulling nuts and poking eyes at the bottom of the piles trying to injure, are you going to fine teams for that?

[molson]

And not a lot of other people are talking about this "proof" of the other coach looking to maliciously take out the player if the trip didn't work, because that isn't at all clear on video. Again, that's the conpiracy theorist error of "why he turn his waist in THAT way - what does it MEAN??" How about nothing - it happened in .01 seconds - it kind of looks like he's making a half-hearted effort to turn away from the player.

[DaddyTorgo]

So let's say the Jets are the first team in the history of the NFL to intentionally have players stand close to the sideline for the purpose of screwing up the rhythm of the gunner. So what? Shouldn't that have been, at most, a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty (if the refs wanted to enforce that rule for the first time in NFL history?)

Edit: The Jets are very clumsily manuvering through the PR aspects of all this. I don't see that as proof of some grand, sophisticated cover-up. They're just a bad company.

No - because they're inactive players and non-playing employees.

If I'm the gunner I'm considering filing assault charges actually.