WW LXVI: Money Money Money (Game Over!)

[Barkeep49]

Chief's game looks to be wrapping up. I would love to start early next week. Rules are below. You'll noticed that they are unfinished (there is XX in a couple of places); I need a sense of how many players will be in the game so I can figure out realistic amounts of money to put into the game. Sign-ups start now. I'd like at least 12 for the game, and after that the more the merrier. Don't hesitate to ask questions.

Also I know that this will be important to some people: I simply think that the game balance would be thrown off by a 24 hour cycle. My plan for deadlines are 10 PM Eastern for Day and 7 or 8 AM Eastern for Night. I will, however, accept conditional votes for those for whom that would make a difference.

Sign-ups
1. Lathum
2. Pass
3. hoopsguy
4. path
5. Render
6. Arles
7. Alan T
8. The Jackal
9. Chief Rum
10. mauboy
11. Schmidty
12. claphamsa
13. SnDvls
14. Mr. Wednesday
15. Swaggs
16. DaddyTorgo
17. saldana
18. Tyrith

[Barkeep49]

nm

[Barkeep49]

Some people want happiness. Some people want love. Your goal is a good deal simpler: you want money and of course that’s what your friends (aka people who have enough money to make it worth socializing with) want as well. And being the competitive sort, you’d like to be the richest person amongst your friends. Of course your friends feel the same way. And for years that’s all been well and good. But now some have decided to take this friendly informal competition too far. They are killing people to get their way.

Rules
There are the traditional two sides to this game: the Rich (aka Villagers) & the Cutthroat (aka Wolves). The goal for each side is to have the most money when the game ends. Each player begins the game, on Day 1, with $30,000.


Each day the group will choose one player to bankrupt, using their collective influence. You should vote for this player by voting for them at the end of your post using bold and the color blue.


I think BK is a wolf.

Vote BK

You may NOT unvote in this game. Like everything else voting costs money, $10,000 a vote, however your first vote is free. You may cast as many or few votes as you wish (and your cash allows). For each day that you cast at least 1 vote you receive $15,000 at the start of the next day. Tie votes will result in no bankruptcy.

There will be no roles (e.g. seer) in this game. Instead a player may win the use of a service. Each day a player may bid on 1 service. To submit a bid the player should PM me with the name of the service they’re bidding on and the amount they’re bidding in the PM title. Only the last bid on a day will be considered. Tie bids are broken by a predetermined secret non-random tie breaker. Winning amounts, but not who bid, will be published daily.

Players may give money to each other in the thread, though once per day the Cutthroat may transfer money from one player to another privately by PM’ing me.

Players may choose to keep their money in one of three places (players may put money into more than one place):
On hand – Eligible to be used freely, however, any money on hand is given to Cutthroat upon death.
In the bank – Eligible to be used freely, however money in the bank is revealed to the winner of an auction each day
In a CD – Players may buy a 1, 2, or 3 day CD. This money may not be spent, but the money earns interest. A 1 day CD pays 5% interest, a 2 day CD pays 7.5% interest (compounded daily), and a 3 day CD pays 10% interest (compounded daily).

Players may change where they have money as a night action. When submitting this action they may account for where they would like their $15,000 voting bonus to go.

The game will start with a Day 0. Players need to do two three actions during Night 0. First they must state an amount between $20,000 and $100,000. During the game the Cutthroats will have the chance to bribe a player or players. If they meet the asking price for a player, that player will be converted to the cutthroat side and the money removed from the game. If the bribe attempt fails that player gets to keep the attempted bribe.

Second, players must also name a beneficiary. When a player dies all their money (except what the Cutthroats take) goes to the beneficiary. Players may change their beneficiary at any time for the cost of $10,000.

Finally players must decide how they are going to distribute their initial $30,000.

Players who attempt to spend money which they do not have will be investigated by the FBI, and may be found guilty of fraud. If so they lose and are removed from the game.

Finally, the game does not end in the traditional way. Anytime after Day 4 the players may “Vote to end the game”. Once 60% of players vote to end the game the game is immediately over and the side with the most money wins. Players MAY rescind their vote to end the game.

[Barkeep49]

Day 1:
Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Bodyguard Firm: May choose 1 player to be protected from attacks. Must be used night 1.
Private Investigator: Will learn the side (Cutthroat or Rich) of 1 player. Must be used night 1.
Government Insider: May avoid bankruptcy one time. This will be used automatically and is not given to your beneficiary upon death.

Day 2:
Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Bodyguard Firm: Winning player protected from attacks. Must be used Night 2.
Private Investigator: Will learn the side (Cutthroat or Rich) of 1 player. Must be used night 2.
Telecommunications Mogul: May choose on Day 3 to either block all Cutthroat communication, or to allow all players PM rights.

Day 3:
Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Bodyguard Firm: May choose 1 player to be protected from attacks. May be used any night.
Private Investigator: Will learn the side (Cutthroat or Rich) of a player on each of two nights. Must be used night 3 & 4.
Thief: May choose to rob a player’s on hand OR Bank Account. May be used any night, but is not given to your beneficiary upon death.

Day 4:
Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Wiretapper: Receives 20% of all money from successful auction bids on Days 4 & 5.
Notary Public: May change the beneficiary on another player’s will (without their knowledge). Must be used by Night 6.
Financial Analyst: Will learn the total money of 1 player. Must be used night 4.

Day 5:
Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Bodyguard Firm: May choose a player to be protected from attacks on two consecutive nights (may not be the same player). Must be used Nights 5 and 6.
Hitman: Winning player may choose another player to be killed. Must be used Night 5.
Lawyer: May learn the beneficiary of 2 players. Must be used Night 5.

Day 6:
Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Private Investigator: Will learn the side (Cutthroat or Rich) of 1 player. Must be used night 6.
Underworld connection: If won by the Cutthroats, they receive a bonus kill on Night 6. If won by the Rich no kill or conversion may happen that night.

Day 7:
Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Bodyguard Firm: May choose 1 player to be protected from attacks.
Financial Analyst: Will learn the total money of 1 player. Must be used night 7.

Day 8:
Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Private Investigator: Will learn the side (Cutthroat or Rich) of 1 player. Must be used night 8.
Wiretapper: Receives 20% of all money from successful auction bids on Days 8 & 9.

Day 9:
Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Private Investigator: Will learn the side (Cutthroat or Rich) of 1 player. Must be used night 9
Government Insider: May not be bankrupted on the day won and the following day.

Day 10:
Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Bodyguard Firm: Winning player protected from attacks. Must be night 10.
Lawyer: May learn the beneficiary of 2 players. Must be used Night 9.

Note 1: If game goes longer than 10 days, the cycle repeats starting at Day 6 (so Days 11 & 16 offers the same auction as Day 6, Days 12 & 17 the same as Day 7, and so on).

Note 2: If a power is good for more than one night and doesn’t state otherwise, it will be given to a player’s beneficiary if used when that player dies.

[Lathum]

I AM SO IN THIS GAME!!!!

[Passacaglia]

I want money, lots and lots of money
I want the pie in the sky
I want money, lots and lots of money
So don't be asking me why...
I wanna be rich!

[path12]

I'm all right Jack keep your hands off of my stack.

In.

[hoopsguy]

Let's see how the schedule works out ... in.

[RendeR]

Money Money Money
Must be funny
in a Rich man's world....


Sign me up.

[Arles]

Money, it's a crime
Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie
Money, so they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a rise it's no surprise that they're
giving none away

I'm in

[Lathum]

Money, it's a crime
Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie
Money, so they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a rise it's no surprise that they're
giving none away

I'm in

does this mean you are giving away your next game?

[Alan T]

A man like that is hard to find but I can't get him off my mind
Ain't it sad
And if he happens to be free I bet he wouldn't fancy me
That's too bad
So I must leave, I'll have to go
To Las Vegas or Monaco
And win a fortune in a game, my life will never be the same


I'm in

[The Jackal]

Ill have to re-read the rules a few times, but count me in.

[finkenst]

this ought to be interesting.. i'll be reading along.

[finkenst]

but out

[Chief Rum]

I'll play.

[mauchow]

Whoa!

in-teresting

[Schmidty]

I'll be in, but honestly, if I were a WW GM, I sure as hell wouldn't want me in my game.

[claphamsa]

inarino

[jeheinz72]

Hey BK, what's the plan for weekend play? I know I'm headed out of town earlier than normal on Friday and won't be on all weekend.

[Barkeep49]

Hey BK, what's the plan for weekend play? I know I'm headed out of town earlier than normal on Friday and won't be on all weekend.
My thought would be an extended night cycle from Friday, likely until Sunday morning, and then an extended Day from Sunday morning to Monday night.

[claphamsa]

Ugh, im a night one casualty. can we just go ahead and start this one today?

KTHXBAI

[jeheinz72]

I don't know if I really want to have to, but I'm going to sit this one out.

With my being gone for the weekends and the night actions being in a time when I'm not online, it's likely best.

I'll be reading though for sure!

[SnDvls]

Everyone's got a price

I'm in

[RendeR]

Everyone's got a price

I'm in


yes but most people's price is in dollars Man, not pennies....

[claphamsa]

oh yeah, and for killing me last game when i couldnt make my arguemnt


vote path

[Barkeep49]

So plan is to end sign-ups Monday early evening, likely around 6 or so, send out roles shortly there after. There is a Night 0, so that would run until 8 AM or so Tuesday. We would then get on the regular schedule.

[Passacaglia]

So is the goal to have the most money individually, or for your team to have more money than the other team?

[Barkeep49]

So is the goal to have the most money individually, or for your team to have more money than the other team?
When the game ends the idea is to be on the team with the most money.

[SnDvls]

What happens if I bid all my money on a service...it's accepted, but I have none to vote?

[Mr. Wednesday]

In.

[Mr. Wednesday]

oh yeah, and for killing me last game when i couldnt make my arguemnt


vote path
The one you should be getting on is olie, she's the one who had to choose between the two of you and didn't even bother to wait to be convinced (and, furthermore, didn't peruse the record closely enough).

[claphamsa]

vote path & Ollie

sitting in a tree......

[Barkeep49]

What happens if I bid all my money on a service...it's accepted, but I have none to vote?
First vote is free and gives you the $10,000 for the next day.

[DaddyTorgo]

okay...i'm in

[ntndeacon]

You've got the brawn, I've got the looks.
Let's make lots of money!

In

[Passacaglia]

You've got the brawn, I've got the looks.
Let's make lots of money!

In

ooh, ntndeacon wins the song reference contest

[DaddyTorgo]

oh man. bidding? is this going to end up like that fustercluck of a rome game. Ugh
(don't mind me...i'm grumpy right now)

[path12]

oh yeah, and for killing me last game when i couldnt make my arguemnt


vote path

Just think of all the typing I saved you.

[Barkeep49]

oh man. bidding? is this going to end up like that fustercluck of a rome game. Ugh
(don't mind me...i'm grumpy right now)
I think it was less the bidding and more the lack of death reveals that caused problems in Rome, but I could be wrong. Also there's a difference between Rome, where your wealth was unknown, and here where it's very concrete.

[st.cronin]

I think the issue in Rome was that the strategic concepts behind the bidding were not explained well enough by the gm. People didn't have enough information to make good decisions.

[saldana]

i'll play

[DaddyTorgo]

I think it was less the bidding and more the lack of death reveals that caused problems in Rome, but I could be wrong. Also there's a difference between Rome, where your wealth was unknown, and here where it's very concrete.

like I said...don't take that as an indictment of the Rome game. That was just for me the most frustrating WW game I've ever been a part of. And I'm still grumpy too, not trying to slag anyone. :D

[RendeR]

like I said...don't take that as an indictment of the Rome game. That was just for me the most frustrating WW game I've ever been a part of. And I'm still grumpy too, not trying to slag anyone. :D


hey, bck off, GRUMPY is MY domain around here.






;)

[Tyrith]

I've refused every invitation into WW lately...but this is so freaking tempting...I'm at least going to think about it.

[Racer]

This one sounds really cool but I think I'm going to to turn this one down since I'm retaking an actuary exam at the end of the month.

[Barkeep49]

I've put a rough draft the the auction schedule up so people can ask questions about that. The rules are also in near final draft form. Both may see tweaks between now and the start of the game as I try to hone balance.

If I change anything going forward I will note it in a post.

[Passacaglia]

This one sounds really cool but I think I'm going to to turn this one down since I'm retaking an actuary exam at the end of the month.

Good luck dude!

[Chief Rum]

When will the game start? If it's somewhere above, sorry I missed it. Just being sure, as I am about to go to bed, and have my usual two-job Monday, so I won't be able to get on, play, vote, read my initial PM, etc. until about 9 p.m. Monday my time at the earliest.

[hoopsguy]

Do you need to pay to change your beneficiary if they die?

Does your money continue to accrue interest if in a CD upon your death before moving to your beneficiary or are assets immediately liquidated and passed on to the beneficiary?

[The Jackal]

Those services are awesome, this is going to be an interesting game.

[Barkeep49]

When will the game start? If it's somewhere above, sorry I missed it. Just being sure, as I am about to go to bed, and have my usual two-job Monday, so I won't be able to get on, play, vote, read my initial PM, etc. until about 9 p.m. Monday my time at the earliest.
Night 0 will be this afternoon/tonight, so you're fine for today. You'll have to get your vote in tomorrow along with your night actions, however.

[Barkeep49]

Do you need to pay to change your beneficiary if they die?
Yes

Does your money continue to accrue interest if in a CD upon your death before moving to your beneficiary or are assets immediately liquidated and passed on to the beneficiary?
The money stays in the CD until its term is up at which point the money goes to your beneficiary.

[Barkeep49]

A few rule changes. I added in rules about tie breakers. Players may only change where they're keeping their money at night. Finally, the starting money was upped to $30,000 and the voting bonus upped to $15,000.

[Tyrith]

I want to do it, I want to do it, I want to do it....well, doesn't look like the games lately have been the 3,000 post monsters they used to be, so hopefully the time commitment will be manageable. Fine, you win, you've lured me back in.

[path12]

I want to do it, I want to do it, I want to do it....well, doesn't look like the games lately have been the 3,000 post monsters they used to be, so hopefully the time commitment will be manageable. Fine, you win, you've lured me back in.

'Bout time, dude. :)

[Passacaglia]

Please let this game start -- my study materials haven't arrived yet, and I'm sick of reading everyone whine about Belichick leaving early in General Discussion.

[Barkeep49]

Made some changes to the auction list. Most are slight (simply swapping what things are on what days or changing the scope of a service). Biggest change is the addition of the Thief on Day 3, the Financial Analyst was moved to Day 4, and there will be no Bodyguard services offered Day 4.

Like Pass I'm anxious to get the game underway, however simply don't have much time to do it until around hopefully 3 Eastern. If not it will be 4 Eastern.

[Passacaglia]

Someone needs to write a "sending out PMs" macro.

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE TYRITH

welcome back dude

[Passacaglia]

Figures that I get my PM right after my study material arrives.

[Barkeep49]

PMs have been sent. Everyone received the Rich PM. The Cutthroat received an additional PM. We are now in Night 0. By 9 AM Eastern please send me the following:
1. Your beneficiary
2. How you want your money divided between CDs, your Bank Account, and On Hand
3. How much it would take to bribe you to the Cutthroat side between $20,000-$100,000.

[Barkeep49]

Figures that I get my PM right after my study material arrives.
Isn't that the way these things always go :)?

[Lathum]

Just got my PM.

I am way to hung over to figure out what I need to do

[Barkeep49]

Just got my PM.

I am way to hung over to figure out what I need to do
See post 62 for the bare bones.

[Alan T]

Checking in real quick. Busy day for me at work. Got my PM, but I haven't really looked through all of the recent rule changes. My PM stated that I need to name someone for my will, figure out where to split my money and set a "bribe amount" Is that all that is due today? I'm working from home tommorrow and thursday, so will be a bit easier for me to catch up those days on whats going on.

[Alan T]

Oh didn't see your comment to Lathum. Ok I'll catch up on the rules later tonight when I have more time. I'll wait till I get through all of them before I comment more about the various things we have to do. Without understanding how it all works together, I don't really want to commit myself to doing certain things.

One question, do you -HAVE- to name a beneficiary today? What is the penalty if you wait a day or so before naming one?

[Barkeep49]

Oh didn't see your comment to Lathum. Ok I'll catch up on the rules later tonight when I have more time. I'll wait till I get through all of them before I comment more about the various things we have to do. Without understanding how it all works together, I don't really want to commit myself to doing certain things.

One question, do you -HAVE- to name a beneficiary today? What is the penalty if you wait a day or so before naming one?
Failure to name a beneficiary will result in your money being with-held until such a time that you have named a beneficiary.

This is also true for failure to specify your bribing price.

If a person doesn't say where they want their money it is assumed to be On Hand.

[claphamsa]

You can all make me your beneficiary.. as I am just a normal villegar!

[Alan T]

Failure to name a beneficiary will result in your money being with-held until such a time that you have named a beneficiary.

This is also true for failure to specify your bribing price.

If a person doesn't say where they want their money it is assumed to be On Hand.

ok thanks

[hoopsguy]

Clap, thank you for volunteering - I was all set to pose the question to the group, but I'll just go ahead and name you.

Note to cutthroats - I hate being converted in Werewolf games. You can safely assume that my pricetag will be exorbitant ... don't come talking to me unless you are planning to empty out the vault first.

[claphamsa]

Clap, thank you for volunteering - I was all set to pose the question to the group, but I'll just go ahead and name you.

always willing to be helpful!

[Alan T]

Barkeep, some more questions... sorry if these have already been answered..

The first vote is free.. Is that the first vote of the game, or first vote each day is free?

Is who I pick as my benefitiary made public anywhere? Is that information we gain to try to learn "alliances" of others, or is that kept hidden? Is that revealed upon someone's death?

Is the only money you can use to buy additional votes "On hand" money? Or can I use money I have in the bank for additional votes if I so choose?

Is the choice of putting X amount in the bank , on hand or in CDs changable on the fly, or only once a day at the end of the day?

Can I win the bodyguard firm and use it to protect myself at night?

Do you learn if you win the bid for things before having to decide where or how to use it? Or do you have to submit that with the bid?

I am really bad with interest bearing accounts, how much do the individual CDs provide if I were to put $10,000 into each of them, what would I get back when they mature?

Thanks.. sorry for all of the questions, I should have read the rules yesterday but got caught up in the superbowl, and today has just been hectic.

[RendeR]

I like Hoops' thinking here, note to cutthroats, you can't afford me. Don't bother.

[Alan T]

I'll try a different tact!

I may be bribeable... why not give it a try :)

[SnDvls]

I'm in the same boat w/ RendeR & Hoops

I've been a wolf too often lately...I'll be priced at the max for sure

[Mr. Wednesday]

Checking in. I haven't decided yet who should be my beneficiary. I'll be interested in any attempts to persuade me.

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, some more questions... sorry if these have already been answered..

The first vote is free.. Is that the first vote of the game, or first vote each day is free?
First vote of each day.

Is who I pick as my benefitiary made public anywhere? Is that information we gain to try to learn "alliances" of others, or is that kept hidden? Is that revealed upon someone's death?
A beneficiary is revealed only upon death or by using the Lawyer service.

Is the only money you can use to buy additional votes "On hand" money? Or can I use money I have in the bank for additional votes if I so choose?
Money on hand and bank account money may both be used for bids and vote buying. Obviously each has their own disadvantages.

Is the choice of putting X amount in the bank , on hand or in CDs changable on the fly, or only once a day at the end of the day?
This can only be changed during the Night, except for the Cutthroat who get to privately transfer, once per day, money from one to another. And obviously if money goes into a multi-day CD it can't then be touched until the end.

Can I win the bodyguard firm and use it to protect myself at night?
Yes

Do you learn if you win the bid for things before having to decide where or how to use it? Or do you have to submit that with the bid?
No you win it before deciding to use it. So at the end of the day if you've won an auction you'll get a PM. This was the big reason why I went with the separate cycles.

I am really bad with interest bearing accounts, how much do the individual CDs provide if I were to put $10,000 into each of them, what would I get back when they mature?
1 Day - 10,500
2 Day - 11,556
3 Day - 13,310

Thanks.. sorry for all of the questions, I should have read the rules yesterday but got caught up in the superbowl, and today has just been hectic.
Actually that was a big part reason I did the Night 0, rather than just have people do it as part of Day 1, so that people would have a chance to easy into the game before the auction got started fast and furious.

[Alan T]

Ok, thanks BK

[Passacaglia]

If we put in a losing bid, do we still pay the money?

[Barkeep49]

If we put in a losing bid, do we still pay the money?
No.

[mauchow]

Okay, guys. I'm a rich dude. Sign me up as your beneficiary and I'll put you down. I'd like to 'trust' someone to put down my name. Anybody wanna do that?

[claphamsa]

You can trust me mau, im a governemtn accountant after all!

[path12]

I'm in the same boat w/ RendeR & Hoops

I've been a wolf too often lately...I'll be priced at the max for sure

I will be too. Unless I'm not.

[path12]

By the way, checking in rich.

[Tyrith]

I'm alive. And rich. And excited to get going.

[Lathum]

I can be bought for cheap.

[Arles]

My head's spinning with these rules. I think I'll be the miser and hide all my money under a matress.

[SnDvls]

My head's spinning with these rules. I think I'll be the miser and hide all my money under a matress.

mine was too until I printed them out and actually sat down and read them.

[Schmidty]

I don't understand this game at all. I will fail.

[Schmidty]

mine was too until I printed them out and actually sat down and read them.

I have no printer, and I have an eyelash in one of my eyes, so reading hurts.

[DaddyTorgo]

I need to read these rules

[Alan T]

I know that it is only day 0, but I am trying to figure out what to submit for my night 0 actions, the toughest being who to make as my beneficiary, and just reading through the thread to get a feel for some folk.

What is the motivation of the people who seem to be begging almost to become a beneficiary. I understand that everyone wants more money, but aren't you making a big target on your back? Unless you are a wolf then you don't really have alot to be afraid of in that regard.

It seems to me that we all want to gain money, but to do so quietly to keep a low profile. From the rules the way I understand it, the wolves will be looking for the big money hits so to speak.

This also has me trying to figure out some uses for some of the services.

Friend of the Bank - What do we truly gain from this information individually? I am having a hard time equating in my head some equation such as: More money in bank = less/more chance of being a wolf. It seems to me this information does not really provide alot, but could actually be harmful released to the public (ie: telling wolves who to avoid going for)

Notary Public - Since this has to be used at a night, I'm having problems figuring out a great use for this. Perhaps if someone does a fake reveal and is busted, I could use it the next day to try to get any money they have left over... but if they are a wolf, won't they get rid of their money before lynching anyways? This seems far more dangerous in the hands of a wolf switching the beneficiary of someone they plan on killing.

[claphamsa]

I need to read these rules
might help...

[Lathum]

I would think the cut throats have alot more money then we do.

I am trying to figure out how much to bid, anyone have any guesses/ ideas. I would hate to overbid

[path12]

I would think the cut throats have alot more money then we do.

I am trying to figure out how much to bid, anyone have any guesses/ ideas. I would hate to overbid

Well, we've got 30K and a vote costs 10K, which you'll get 15 back on. So top bid assuming everyone votes is going to be 20. Since I doubt anyone would do that at this point, I'd say top bids will be in the 10-15 range.

[path12]

I hope I didn't make a cutthroat my beneficiary.

[Lathum]

How do we get more money other then CD's?

[path12]

How do we get more money other then CD's?

If you only make one vote a day you'd earn $5000 for that. Other than that I'd have to look at the list of bid stuff.

[DaddyTorgo]

fuck...i have to read the rules tonight? this sucks. I don't want to

[Arles]

I thought the first vote was free, meaning we get 15K each day if all we do is vote and act like a miser.

[DaddyTorgo]

okay I get it.

[Chief Rum]

Checking in. I won't have much time to go over things right now, so I will have to look things over when I get home from work tomorrow. I should be home 2-3 hours before deadline, so I won't vote right now.

Oh, yeah, and I'm rich, I tellsya, rich! :)

See you guys tomorrow!

[Barkeep49]

I thought the first vote was free, meaning we get 15K each day if all we do is vote and act like a miser.
This is correct. Assuming you vote you get 15k profit the next day. Only votes beyond your first cost 10k.

[saldana]

checking in...i will be on during my lunch break (12 est)

[Passacaglia]

If you only make one vote a day you'd earn $5000 for that. Other than that I'd have to look at the list of bid stuff.

I think you earn 15K. The first vote is free.

[SnDvls]

Well, we've got 30K and a vote costs 10K, which you'll get 15 back on. So top bid assuming everyone votes is going to be 20. Since I doubt anyone would do that at this point, I'd say top bids will be in the 10-15 range.

I thought I read 1st vote is free so really we gain $15K not just $5

Barkeep can you clarify this again please

[SnDvls]

dola - nevermind

I need to read everything first

[Barkeep49]

What a soiree! The dresses were so glam and the men looked sharp in their tuxes. Yes it was a wonderful way to show off that fabulous new watch/car/ring you’ve bought. It was a bit of a bummer that Barkeep49 ended up dead, but why let that ruin an otherwise wonderful night? You do suppose that perhaps you should find out which of your friends was responsible for this death and do something about it. Yes, you’ll make sure that the fiend who committed murder is given his just deserts: you’ll bankrupt ‘em.

But you will also want to think about purchesing one of the following services available to you today:
Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Bodyguard Firm: May choose 1 player to be protected from attacks. Must be used night 1.
Private Investigator: Will learn the side (Cutthroat or Rich) of 1 player. Must be used night 1.
Government Insider: May avoid bankruptcy one time. This will be used automatically and is not given to your beneficiary upon death.

Day 1 has now begun. Deadline is 10 Eastern. I will likely have only sporadic computer access until 5 or so today, as an FYI.

Remember:
1. Voting should be in the following form Vote XXX
2. When bidding please place the service and bid amount in the PM title (e.g. Private Investigator $1)

I also have all N0 actions except from Swaggs.

[hoopsguy]

I believe one of our numbers has been out carousing as of late - he seems as likely as any to bear responsibility for the death of Barkeep.

Vote Lathum

[Alan T]

I didn't even get a chance to post my thoughts on the subject of voting in this game before Hoops already placed a vote.....

What I -was- going to say is that I expected the start of the day to be pretty slow vote wise, since we can not unvote this game. We can place additional votes of course, but for all intents and purposes, it costs $20k to undo your vote by placing two new votes elsewhere, which is a bit pricey for my tastes...

So I was going to ask people what types of things did we want to discuss to start today since it was unlikely that we would see alot of early votes to discuss like normal... since I am completely wrong about that, I guess Hoops has my intrigue up a bit, so I'll start with a different direction..

Hoops, since we can't unvote, what would be so obvious to you from night 0 to immediately vote Lathum without question? Or is your early vote a statement of how useless you think the day 1 conversation would end either way and in the end its just a random vote to you?

[Lathum]

I'll probably vote Swaggs since he didn't submit his night action

[SnDvls]

I'll probably vote Swaggs since he didn't submit his night action

it says he has no actions except from swaggs

[Passacaglia]

it says he has no actions except from swaggs

That's N-zero actions, as in Night Zero.

[Barkeep49]

it says he has no actions except from swaggs
That's actually the letter n and the number zero. Saying I have all Night 0 actions except from Swaggs.

[path12]

it says he has no actions except from swaggs

I think it's all except for Swaggs. And thanks for the clarifications on the vote costs.

[Tyrith]

Typical hoops maneuver, willing to step into the line of fire :P I can understand the vote though, as the general consensus is that lathum is a better wolf than villager, and those are the kind of people that are less painful to sacrifice on day one if need be. Not that I have any intention of following him in his vote; Swaggs is the vote if he doesn't show up.

I wonder how things are going to go early in the day since this game doesn't have unvotes. Hopefully not having to protect roles means that we'll have more night actions to discuss earlier in the game, since there is less need to hide, allowing us to make more good plays with that information.

[Lathum]

And thanks for the clarifications on the vote costs.

I'm actualy not clear on that at all.

[Tyrith]

And on a personal note, now that I'm playing I feel a big part of me that really missed this game :)

[Tyrith]

I'm actualy not clear on that at all.

You get 15K a day starting tomorrow. You lose this if you don't vote.

Each vote after the first you make in a day costs 10K.

[claphamsa]

And on a personal note, now that I'm playing I feel a big part of me that really missed this game :)
welcome back.....

[saldana]

i am a little bit confused by the bidding concept...

There will be no roles (e.g. seer) in this game. Instead a player may win the use of a service. Each day a player may bid on 1 service. To submit a bid the player should PM me with the name of the service they’re bidding on and the amount they’re bidding in the PM title. Only the last bid on a day will be considered. Tie bids are broken by a predetermined secret non-random tie breaker. Winning amounts, but not who bid, will be published daily.


does the bolded part mean that if i bid 30K right now, but at 1 minute before the deadline, someone else bids 2 bucks, they win the bid?

[Passacaglia]

I think it means that the last bid each person submits will be considered -- all bids you made before your last won't be.

[Alan T]

i am a little bit confused by the bidding concept...



does the bolded part mean that if i bid 30K right now, but at 1 minute before the deadline, someone else bids 2 bucks, they win the bid?

My understanding is that it is -your- last bid of the day that is considered.

ie: if you bid 30k right now, but then you bid in later saying you only want to bid 15k, it is that bid that is accepted only.

[saldana]

I think it means that the last bid each person submits will be considered -- all bids you made before your last won't be.

ok, so i can only bid on one service per day then?

[path12]

ok, so i can only bid on one service per day then?

That's how I read it.

[Alan T]

That's how I read it.


Ditto

[claphamsa]

that ould make sense....

[SnDvls]

Oh man...I was gonna put in a bid on everything and then at least be able to gauge what other's were bidding.

there goes that idea

[Passacaglia]

Oh man...I was gonna put in a bid on everything and then at least be able to gauge what other's were bidding.

there goes that idea

I think the amount of the winning bid will be revealed anyway.

[claphamsa]

this is wierd... no one is saying anything..... im confused as to how we will make our decisions :(

[Barkeep49]

I think the amount of the winning bid will be revealed anyway.
Correct.

And you all pieced it together correctly. You may bid on 1 item. Until deadline you may change the item you bid on or the amount you bid and only that bid will be considered. The highest bid for a service will win.

[Alan T]

I think several of us are waiting to see if Swaggs checks in. I'll have to make a decision on my vote in the next 2 or 2 1/2 hours, but since I can't unvote, I'm just waiting to see if he shows up. If he doesn't, then I'll likely go that direction to. I'm willing to give him a pass on missing one day because stuff comes up. But if he doesn't show up today, that is two days and it is as good as anywhere else for my vote.

[path12]

this is wierd... no one is saying anything..... im confused as to how we will make our decisions :(

Day 1 and no vote switching. I agree with what Alan said above, I'm waiting on Swaggs. And I don't know that anyone wants to talk about their bids until they see what happens today.

[mauchow]

Can we change what we planned to do with our money for day one?

[Passacaglia]

Can we change what we planned to do with our money for day one?

I'm pretty sure you can't.

[Lathum]

I definantly want to talk about bids. I am considering the one where I learn one players alligence. But I don't know how much to bid.

[Alan T]

Can we change what we planned to do with our money for day one?

I asked BK that yesterday, I think he said that we can change where money goes (bank, on hand, CDs) each night phase for the next day.. if i remember correctly. But you can't change it again during the day.

[hoopsguy]

On the early vote - I had promised that Lathum was going to be getting my Day 1 vote for multiple games (exact number to be determined) in a previous game. This is the first time I've done that.

It is a meta-game reason for the vote. It does not in any way represent a clearly thought out strategy for the purposes of this game. And, if you want to take the argument in this direction, it represents as carefully crafted a Day 1 vote as most day one votes.

I recognize that I won't be able to change it without incurring significant cost. But I'm also not worried about losing the seer with a random Day 1 vote either. So I think there is somewhat limited risk/reward with any kind of Day 1 action for this particular ruleset.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I definantly want to talk about bids. I am considering the one where I learn one players alligence. But I don't know how much to bid.
I think we should definitely talk about them after the fact, but I'm not sure about before the fact. I've placed a bid, but unless we can establish that it's to my benefit (as a member of the community) to do so, I prefer to keep the service and amount to myself.

[hoopsguy]

My only thoughts on bidding is that people should definitely go high if they are pursuing a service that they think will be of use to the Cutthroats.

If you are playing to accrue services and provide value to the group, I don' think you can go halfway with this strategy (at least not on a given day) and also try to accumulate money. Assuming a normal wolf game, they can coordinate on services for bidding and are unlikely to put in a middling offer for a service that provides direct and/or indirect value to their cause.

[Alan T]

I am not ready to talk about what I bid for or how much, but I think we can talk some about the bids and services in general along with what strategy we might think is in play.

In the end money rules this game, for us and for the wolves. I can see the wolves working together to bid heavy on certain things, but there are some things which I just don't see them even attempting.

Looking at the bodyguard and private investigator roles, they just come far too often, almost every day both of them are listed to bid on. I can't imagine the wolves going broke trying to bid for them. I'm also not sure that any villager is better than any other villager to "win" the services in most cases. It is a good thing that each day the person who wins the private investigator can reveal the result of their service since they aren't a permanent seer.

I think villagers can feel free to bid low on those services unless there is just some reason that a particular person really really wants it.

The Friend at the bank, I really don't see what benefit there is for me to even know what people have in the bank. I don't think it tells me who is or isn't a wolf.. all that information seems to tell is for wolves to know who to not go after in a night kill.

I think there are other services such as Government Insider, Telecommunications Mogul, Wiretapper, etc that the wolves would have interest in as well as villagers.. and I imagine those bids are going to be higher to win.

[hoopsguy]

Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Bodyguard Firm: May choose 1 player to be protected from attacks. Must be used night 1.
Private Investigator: Will learn the side (Cutthroat or Rich) of 1 player. Must be used night 1.
Government Insider: May avoid bankruptcy one time. This will be used automatically and is not given to your beneficiary upon death.


List of services for today.

Here is another thought - assuming that the Cutthroats start with a significant minority (this seems likely, correct?) I think there is a good chance that they hold more starting money per person than the rest of us. Otherwise, we'll be growing our lead in money each day by virtue of having more people getting 15K for voting, which would create a significant edge over the first three days.

Without some other mechanic in play, we will almost certainly want to vote to end the game immediately on Day 4 so we are on the side with the most money. So I'm thinking that the Cutthroats must have some kind of per-guy financial edge at the outset.

Going with this line of thinking, they probably will enjoy an edge at the outset in terms of acquiring services.

[Alan T]

Even if they do have an edge at the start of acquiring services, I have to imagine they are trying to pace themselves out past day 4 like you mentioned. I think what I said before makes sense that they aren't going to be blowing money trying to keep us from services that are worthless to them (bodyguard, seer, etc) since they pop up day after day after day. I think its best for our side to bid less on those services to keep our money and not just blow it all on things that they likely aren't even going to bid for.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, at what point is wealth calculated for the end game? After Day 4 = Night 4? Day 5?

When 60% of the votes are in, are all assets factored in? Including money invested in a CD, money bid for a service (but not yet spent, since the service has not yet been acquired)?

[claphamsa]

Going with this line of thinking, they probably will enjoy an edge at the outset in terms of acquiring services.


that seems oddly fatalistic.... We cant win dont try!

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, at what point is wealth calculated for the end game? After Day 4 = Night 4? Day 5?

When 60% of the votes are in, are all assets factored in? Including money invested in a CD, money bid for a service (but not yet spent, since the service has not yet been acquired)?
When 60% of the vote is in all money on hand or in the Bank will be totaled. The side with the most money will win.

[SnDvls]

so if we start with more players and look at doing small minimum bids even if we don't get services we can still win this game on day 4 just by the fact that we out number the wolves.....unless they started with a heck of a lot more money than we did, then this goes right out the window.

[Alan T]

Well, I need to take off from work. I should be back by 9pm or so, but just in case, I need to get a vote in now. For reasons stated earlier.

Vote Swaggs

[hoopsguy]

that seems oddly fatalistic.... We cant win dont try!

Not really fatalistic - just trying to work through in my own head what is the "value" play in terms of competing for services both today and in future days.

If you think I'm being fatalistic there then I'm really being negative about the Cutthroat chances to win a money race within four days based on the other part of my posts.

[mauchow]

Vote sndvls

Getting in now since I'm going to be busy for the night and may or may not be able to check thread again. No reason to vote except that he said "Been wolf too many times, upping my bribe to max."

[path12]

I'm not bidding on anything today. And I'm in the camp that believes the Cutthroats are starting with anywhere from some to substantially more money than we are.

[The Jackal]

I doubt I'm going to bid on anything today. And as for my vote, it will come but likely be random.

I agree that the cutthroats probably have more money than us, but still, the bidding should be very interesting.

[Passacaglia]

Vote sndvls

Getting in now since I'm going to be busy for the night and may or may not be able to check thread again. No reason to vote except that he said "Been wolf too many times, upping my bribe to max."

I think the rules state that a vote needs to be at the end of your post.

[Lathum]

Vote Swaggs

[Passacaglia]

I'll probably be checking in every so often, but I think it's important that we vote off Swaggs today, in this game more than others. Sorry if you read this Swaggs, but at this point, you're pretty unlikely to place a vote, and if someone else goes bankrupt and you stay with us, we're essentially losing the 15K that the person who actually voted would have made us (since you don't get the 15K if you don't vote).

VOTE SWAGGS

[RendeR]

Unfortunately swaggs seems to be persona non grata for this game, miht as well eliminate the problem early.


VOTE SWAGGS

[claphamsa]

Bah, we still got hours till we have to vote... Im to sick to go anywhere...

Im gonna bid high so! so I wont have no money left cutthroats, stay away.......

[Tyrith]

Bleh, hate this day one, but I'm inclined to go with the consensus. Even if he comes back now he's dead, because there is no particular reason to kill anyone else. Just in case though I'll hold off the trigger for now.

[Tyrith]

You have to imagine the wolves are going to bid a big chunk of money to get the avoid bankruptcy service. That's our only way to kill them for a long time. So I probably wouldn't even bother on that one, regardless.

[hoopsguy]

I understand the impulse to vote Swaggs - and it might even work out to our advantage (obviously only the Cutthroats have this knowledge right now) - but the more people that endorse this idea, the more nervous I get about the fact that he is Patsy #1 for this game.

[Tyrith]

I understand the impulse to vote Swaggs - and it might even work out to our advantage (obviously only the Cutthroats have this knowledge right now) - but the more people that endorse this idea, the more nervous I get about the fact that he is Patsy #1 for this game.

Yeah, I know that feeling. But the problem is that the idea makes too much sense. The vote that strikes me as the worst is Lathum's hit and run that started the landslide, but after what you've said then who the heck knows what that means. Probably nothing, but it's a data point at least.

[Passacaglia]

Yeah, I know that feeling. But the problem is that the idea makes too much sense. The vote that strikes me as the worst is Lathum's hit and run that started the landslide, but after what you've said then who the heck knows what that means. Probably nothing, but it's a data point at least.

For the record, I didn't see Lathum's post when I voted. Also, I don't think Lathum can really be blamed for starting the landslide. I think this is just a result of everyone waiting for a while to see if Swaggs would show up.

[Tyrith]

For the record, I didn't see Lathum's post when I voted. Also, I don't think Lathum can really be blamed for starting the landslide. I think this is just a result of everyone waiting for a while to see if Swaggs would show up.

Probably. But it's at least the kind of thing that would be looked at more suspiciously in games with more normal rulesets...but I'm not about to go on some rant against anyone in it.

[Passacaglia]

Damn, 8 people in the thread.

[saldana]

the friend at the bank thin could be rather dangerous to allow the cutthroats to win, especially as the game goes on....when the pool of possible beneficiaries becomes more limited, they could start whacking people with large cash reserves in the bank with the hope that they are the receivers of the account balances.

[Passacaglia]

Probably. But it's at least the kind of thing that would be looked at more suspiciously in games with more normal rulesets...but I'm not about to go on some rant against anyone in it.

Feel free! You might want to note that he also said he was thinking of voting for Swaggs this morning. I feel like this was pretty much the elephant in the room until Alan mentioned it, anyway -- we were all thinking of it, but no one wanted to start the bandwagon, and everyone wanted to give him a chance. I was waiting until the last minute myself (since I can't unvote), but then I realized that by not voting, he's costing us money.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I doubt Swaggs does work to our advantage, realistically, but the complete absence to this point makes it more or less obligatory. And I don't have anybody that I like more.

VOTE Swaggs

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, and I'm unlikely to be back before deadline.

[SnDvls]

since when is 3 votes a landslide?
if he doesn't show up I'll probally join in, yes he's probally not a wolf, but as of now he's also not active for whatever reason...I'll have to check pg 1 to see if he said he'd be gone for a bit.

Otherwise I'm voting mauboy just as a payback vote and a dumb reason in my book for voting me...sounds like a wolf reaching for a "random" person/reason to vote IMO to just get an additional $15,000

[Passacaglia]

the friend at the bank thin could be rather dangerous to allow the cutthroats to win, especially as the game goes on....when the pool of possible beneficiaries becomes more limited, they could start whacking people with large cash reserves in the bank with the hope that they are the receivers of the account balances.

I think we can combat that by building a circle of trust as quickly as possible, and forking over the 10K to change our beneficiries to people in it.

[Lathum]

I'll probably vote Swaggs since he didn't submit his night action

Vote Swaggs

Yeah, I know that feeling. But the problem is that the idea makes too much sense. The vote that strikes me as the worst is Lathum's hit and run that started the landslide, but after what you've said then who the heck knows what that means. Probably nothing, but it's a data point at least.

ahem.

And since I had a vote on me already thanks to Hoops' early vote I felt it was a wise move to put some distance there.

[saldana]

btw, has it occured to anyone that swaggs might not know the game started...he visited the board today according to his profile...did anyone ping him on the off topic board.

[SnDvls]

can someone point me to the post # where Swaggs even says he's in this game or did he do it by PM?

It appears he said after me & Mr. W, but I can't even find a post by him.

[path12]

I understand the impulse to vote Swaggs - and it might even work out to our advantage (obviously only the Cutthroats have this knowledge right now) - but the more people that endorse this idea, the more nervous I get about the fact that he is Patsy #1 for this game.

Where else do you go, though? Participation (at least in voting) is going to be crucial for the good guys in order to maximize their holdings. As much as I hate to pile on a Swaggs vote, nowhere else makes any sense to me as long as he's not around.

[SnDvls]

also see where NTN says in, but he's not on the player list...did he drop?

[saldana]

can someone point me to the post # where Swaggs even says he's in this game or did he do it by PM?

It appears he said after me & Mr. W, but I can't even find a post by him.

this is fantastic....if you check the list of posts per person, swaggs is not on it at all...you guys all just voted for someone that isnt even freaking playing!!!!!!!LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Lathum]

Sign-ups
1. Lathum
2. Pass
3. hoopsguy
4. path
5. Render
6. Arles
7. Alan T
8. The Jackal
9. Chief Rum
10. mauboy
11. Schmidty
12. claphamsa
13. SnDvls
14. Mr. Wednesday
15. Swaggs
16. DaddyTorgo
17. saldana
18. Tyrith

this is fantastic....if you check the list of posts per person, swaggs is not on it at all...you guys all just voted for someone that isnt even freaking playing!!!!!!!LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

huh?

[claphamsa]

I do that all the time....

[SnDvls]

this is fantastic....if you check the list of posts per person, swaggs is not on it at all...you guys all just voted for someone that isnt even freaking playing!!!!!!!LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

maybe all the swaggs votes will shift to ntn ;)

[claphamsa]

vote for people that arnet playing that is :P

[Passacaglia]

It would be hilarious if this somehow uncovered the fact that ntn and Swaggs were the same person.

[saldana]

huh?

he never signed up

[saldana]

It would be hilarious if this somehow uncovered the fact that ntn and Swaggs were the same person.

LOL

[Barkeep49]

Swaggs had sent me a PM saying he would play and ntn was accidentally omitted but decided yesterday he didn't want to play.

[SnDvls]

what about NTN?

[SnDvls]

You've got the brawn, I've got the looks.
Let's make lots of money!

In

he's in post

[SnDvls]

ok nevermind

[Passacaglia]

he's in post

It's a shame. He had the most "money" song reference in the thread. Plus, he studied at the Sorbonne. Doctored in mathematics. He could have been a Don.

[SnDvls]

since it seems to be a slow night a probally a forgone conclusion and in case swaggs does show up late

vote mauboy1

[Passacaglia]

Another reason to kill Swaggs is that since we know he didn't submit N0 (that's night zero) actions, he might just be wolf bait anyway, since he didn't choose a beneficiary.

[The Jackal]

Vote Swaggs

[claphamsa]

Another reason to kill Swaggs is that since we know he didn't submit N0 (that's night zero) actions, he might just be wolf bait anyway, since he didn't choose a beneficiary. and if we kill him now? who gets his money....

[mauchow]

I was able to stop back into the thread, sorry about the vote at the beginning of post. Oh, and nice retaliatory vote sundevls. :)

vote sndvls

[saldana]

and if we kill him now? who gets his money....

i believe it goes into escrow until a beneficiary is named by swaggs post mortem

[Barkeep49]

Swaggs will have no money if he is bankrupted. Money only passes from dead people. His non-existent beneficiary, however, would be revealed.

[Barkeep49]

Here's what I have for a vote count:

Lathum – hoops (110)
Swaggs – Alan (149), Lathum (155), Render (157), Mr. W (168), The Jackal (192),
Sndvls – mauboy(151), mauboy (194)
Mau – Sndvls (190)

[saldana]

for lack of anything better to do

vote swaggs

[Chief Rum]

Swaggs will have no money if he is bankrupted. Money only passes from dead people. His non-existent beneficiary, however, would be revealed.

Santa Claus? The Easter Bunny? An over .500 Tampa Bay Rays team?

[hoopsguy]

Where else do you go, though? Participation (at least in voting) is going to be crucial for the good guys in order to maximize their holdings. As much as I hate to pile on a Swaggs vote, nowhere else makes any sense to me as long as he's not around.

Still catching up - I don't have an obvious answer (it is Day 1) and don't have a lot of room to talk having cast an early vote. But if I had reserved my vote for later in the day, I would be nervous about a vote that seems too easy.

Speaking to you in particular, I know that you use voting off non-participants is your de facto voting strategy. And if that works for you then more power to you. I just have a sinking feeling that it isn't going to be a very effective Day 1 strategy for this particular game based on the ebb and flow that I have observed up until now.

[Chief Rum]

Note to cutthroats - I hate being converted in Werewolf games. You can safely assume that my pricetag will be exorbitant ... don't come talking to me unless you are planning to empty out the vault first.

Classic hoops. I know for a fact this is true--he hates to be converted. But to come out and say so? And miss the chance the receive the money that might come in bidding for him by the cutthroats? Why would hoops, a very smart player, do that? Because he is a cutthroat and already knows he won't be (or need to be) bribed.

VOTE HOOPSGUY

[Barkeep49]

Updated vote count:

Lathum – hoops (110)
Swaggs – Alan (149), Lathum (155), Render (157), Mr. W (168), The Jackal (192), saldana (198)
Sndvls – mauboy(151)
Mau – Sndvls (190)
Hoops – Chief Rum (201)

I determined that mau's second vote wasn't an attempt to vote twice, but rather vote once following the rules. The part about voting last in the post isn't as important as voting bold and in blue. If it's bold and blue I will see it and count it.

[hoopsguy]

Chief, the Cutthroats can either take me at my word in that post, or not. As of right now the only people who know what price I named are me and Barkeep.

Similarly, they can either take me at my word that I named Clap as my beneficiary or not.

I'm not defending my villager "streak" anymore, so I don't have anything of value to play for as a villager here other than hoping we collectively make good decisions. None of us have an inherent role based on the money structure. Voting for me is equally as effective as voting out any other member of the "Rich" elite. But it isn't going to get you a "Cutthroat".

I told BK in a PM that I thought there would be some interesting conversations to be had after the game about Night 0 decisions. I also expected some reaction to the quoted post when I typed it - I'm actually a little surprised this is the first time this has been raised so far.

[Chief Rum]

Oh, did you get killed as a villager and I missed it? I actually forgot you had that going, but now that you mention it, I'm definitely curious.

Right now, it's a Day One gut thing. It's not a comment I expect out of you without some calculation. The question is whether it is actually fairly innocent in intent, meant exactly as I am reading it, or meant for something else entirely I am not privy to. Either way, I am comfortable with that vote until I see evidence otherwise (especially on Day One).

[claphamsa]

vote jackall

gotta vote for someone.....

[st.cronin]

I'm not defending my villager "streak" anymore.

I feel terrible about that. :(

[hoopsguy]

Works for me. And I got clipped in Coffee Warlord's game after my order to night-kill a wolf was blocked by another villager. I was pretty pleased with how that game worked out :rolleyes: :mad:

The comment you quoted was meant for dissection - I want the Cutthroats to try to figure out if I'm asking for them to convert me or if I'm being honest with my post. Similarly, I'm just fine with other members of the Rich seeing my post and saying, "hey, maybe I should make the price tag really expensive just to reduce the chance of being converted". There are a lot of ways that this could go, and I'm pretty much OK with most of the scenarios. Well, except for the possibility that it gets me lynched ... that would be an unintended (and unfortunate) consequence.

[hoopsguy]

I feel terrible about that. :(

Had to happen sometime. Villagers had to help the wolves with the vote when it did. No hard feelings.

Of course, I did consider this when choosing my beneficiary this game :D

[Chief Rum]

Some thoughts...

I know some people were mentioning Cutthroats having more money to start (or assuming so). I think this is actually false.

Every player in the game, including Cutthroats, started with the same PM, which gave out starting monies and what not (same to everyone).

My guess is that the differences lie in the activities they can take or how they can bid for those activities, but the money at the start is the same.

I am also guessing that on top of being able to communicate, they will also be able to do at least some pooling of their bids. So they probably win at least one bid per night.

I don't see why they would ever bid on the bodyguard. Who do they need protection from? Or the seer. They know who the Cutthroats are.

I also think they will name non-wolf players as benes in the hopes of leading us astray into thinking they named fellow wolves as benes. Fact is, voting is the only way to kill wolves, and voting death is bankruptcy--thus no money left to leave anyone. Since wolves are doing the killing at night, they won't kill each other (of course), so no need to name benes from their own. Instead they will do their best to transfer their money the night before if they suspect they will be vote targets.

If they can do that private transfer in the day time, of course, they will wait until then or put in a conditional order, in case they are in danger of being lynched.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm going to vote chief rum.

his vote on hoops and his logic for it is a little "too convienent" for my tastes.

and it's day 1 and I have to vote for someone, and I was just able to get online and into the thread for the first time all day and noticed there's a huge pileup, which doesn't really tell us anything so I reserve the right to just go with my thought on chief rum

VOTE CHIEF RUM

[hoopsguy]

Chief, I think that it will be very tough for the Cutthoats to win the game by Day 5 if they start off with the same money as everyone else.

I also think that they would be more likely to hire seer/BG later in the game as a blocking mechanism. Why hire the seer? To avoid the chance of being scanned. Not as big a deal when it is 4 in 17 (complete guess as to number of bad guys), but a bigger deal when it is 4 in 13 with a couple of people in a CoT that they don't think they can bribe. Similarly, it would be kinda cool (from their side) to lock up the BG near end-game.

So I think that a smart wolf team is going to make these kinds of decisions within the context of the game - I don't think that sweeping Day 1 assumptions necessarily capture the nuance of their decisions in what looks like it will be a well-balanced game.

Also, I think there is a very significant opportunity around services today that has not been fully explored in the thread up to this point. Suffice it to say that I'm going to be viewing the winning bids with interest.

[Barkeep49]

CR: Everyone recieved the Rich PM so that there couldn't be any games played with it, especially as it was longer than just "you're a villegar (TM)"; the Cutthroats did receive a longer more involved PM.

[claphamsa]

Some thoughts...

I know some people were mentioning Cutthroats having more money to start (or assuming so). I think this is actually false.

Every player in the game, including Cutthroats, started with the same PM, which gave out starting monies and what not (same to everyone).


either i missed something or we should lynch you tommoroW!! andt hats just cuz im cheeeeep and dont wanna pay to vote again.

[path12]

Had to happen sometime. Villagers had to help the wolves with the vote when it did. No hard feelings.

Of course, I did consider this when choosing my beneficiary this game :D

I guess that rules me out since I was one of the wolves that got you lynched. ;)

[path12]

Well, he hasn't shown up yet, so he'll be my vote. Shame because I think he could have been very useful in this ruleset. (if he's regular rich, of course).

VOTE SWAGGS

[Lathum]

I also find hoops logic for voting for me so early perplexing. I realize he made a comment early on but he doesn't make uneducated votes.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, we all make uneducated Day 1 votes. You knew you had this one coming ... I'll quote the prior game if your memory is failing you.

[Barkeep49]

Updated vote count:

Lathum – hoops (110)
Swaggs – Alan (149), Lathum (155), Pass (156), Render (157), Mr. W (168), The Jackal (192), saldana (198), path (215)
Sndvls – mauboy(151)
Mau – Sndvls (190)
Hoops – Chief Rum (201)
Jackal – claphams (205)

[claphamsa]

im watign on the edge of my seat to see waht happens...

[hoopsguy]

I understand the impulse to vote Swaggs - and it might even work out to our advantage (obviously only the Cutthroats have this knowledge right now) - but the more people that endorse this idea, the more nervous I get about the fact that he is Patsy #1 for this game.

Yeah, I know that feeling. But the problem is that the idea makes too much sense. The vote that strikes me as the worst is Lathum's hit and run that started the landslide, but after what you've said then who the heck knows what that means. Probably nothing, but it's a data point at least.

For the record, I didn't see Lathum's post when I voted. Also, I don't think Lathum can really be blamed for starting the landslide. I think this is just a result of everyone waiting for a while to see if Swaggs would show up.

For what it is worth, I found these to be the most interesting quotes of the day so far.

1.) Tyrith suggests that Lathum was responsible for starting the runaway on Swaggs
2.) Pass suggests that Lathum isn't responsible

This doesn't mean much if Swaggs does end up as a Cutthroat. But if he is a member of the Rich, then my suspicious mind is starting to try and figure out if there is some meaning here.

- very, very unlikely that Tyrith and Lathum are both members of the Cutthroats
- what motivation would Pass have for semi-defending Lathum? Genuine concern about what he sees as misguided thought process? Or something more sinister - Cutthroat providing cover for Cutthroat? I saw this sort of thing pretty frequently last game when Pass was a member of "Team Cougar".

Absent better information, I think that is where I would want to look tomorrow. It is also where I would point someone if they win the "Seer" service and are looking for suggestions.

[hoopsguy]

BK, Pass voted for Swaggs in Post #156.

[Barkeep49]

BK, Pass voted for Swaggs in Post #156.
Edited in. Thanks.

[Lathum]

Hoops, why are you so keen to lynch me with no information?

[Chief Rum]

Hoops, why are you so keen to lynch me with no information?

So you're saying there exists information that would make us keen to lynch you? :)

[Schmidty]

I'm finally here. I have like 15 minutes to read as much as I can, and vote.

[Lathum]

So you're saying there exists information that would make us keen to lynch you? :)

Well he sure is keen!!

[Passacaglia]

- what motivation would Pass have for semi-defending Lathum? Genuine concern about what he sees as misguided thought process? Or something more sinister - Cutthroat providing cover for Cutthroat? I saw this sort of thing pretty frequently last game when Pass was a member of "Team Cougar".


I'll admit to having been fairly obvious on "Team Cougar" last game, but that was the point in a way -- to get myself out there in order to advance our agenda. But I think you've played in enough games with me to know that I'll correct misguided thought processes when I see them!

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, I'm not all that keen. Today's vote was decided a week ago, nothing personal at all.

As far as tomorrow goes, I think I'm more interested in both Passacaglia and Tyrith than you. However, your name is the one that shows up in their discussion. Take your name out of those posts and substitute another one in ... those posts read to me like someone posting with an agenda moreso that just about anything else I read today.

I don't think the wolves have had to work vey hard at all today. I strongly suspect that we are bankrupting a member of the Rich (Swaggs) and that there was no meaningful heat brought on any member of the Cutthroats. That is why the posts I quoted stuck out a little bit amid the rest - because it seemed like there was a chance of meaningful info to be found.

If I'm you, I'm wondering why Tyrith is pinning the runaway on you more than I'm wondering about me trying to orchestrate your doom. I'm not, it is pretty much coincidence that you came up in those quotes on a day that you were my "not-so-random" Day 1 vote.

[Schmidty]

So, nothing at all from Swaggs. I feel like a hypocrite, but at least I did my Night 0 actions.

Vote Swaggs

[Lathum]

I dunno Hoops, seems like you have an agenda

[Tyrith]

Vote Swaggs

Cash vote, playing WoW right now, almost forgot to vote, I'll talk more in a couple of hours.

[Alan T]

Swaggs is posting in GD forums on this board, but not here. Not sure why he didn't show up, but I think I agree with whoever stated that bankrupting him is better than giving him a freebie just to be night killed as the wolves will know his money is all on hand (due to no night action being submitted).

I'm assuming if he was a wolf, his friends would be PMing him to get in here so he didn't go the way that fink did last game. So I assume he likely is not a wolf, but with absence of any other info, I don't plan on voting elsewhere as he needs to be bankrupted so the wolves dont get a free 30k.

[Passacaglia]

Lathum, I'm not all that keen. Today's vote was decided a week ago, nothing personal at all.

As far as tomorrow goes, I think I'm more interested in both Passacaglia and Tyrith than you. However, your name is the one that shows up in their discussion. Take your name out of those posts and substitute another one in ... those posts read to me like someone posting with an agenda moreso that just about anything else I read today.

I don't think the wolves have had to work vey hard at all today. I strongly suspect that we are bankrupting a member of the Rich (Swaggs) and that there was no meaningful heat brought on any member of the Cutthroats. That is why the posts I quoted stuck out a little bit amid the rest - because it seemed like there was a chance of meaningful info to be found.

If I'm you, I'm wondering why Tyrith is pinning the runaway on you more than I'm wondering about me trying to orchestrate your doom. I'm not, it is pretty much coincidence that you came up in those quotes on a day that you were my "not-so-random" Day 1 vote.

Also, hoops, did you not read my rationale for voting Swaggs? Maybe he is Rich, but even if he is, he's certainly helping us out by not voting. Chances are we'll vote for someone Rich anyway, and that guy is one who could be helping us by earning money by voting.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, good to see that the afterglow from the Giants win hasn't dulled your werewolf paranoia :)

If the person who buys the seer agrees with you then they can scan me and learn my allegiance (hint: Rich). Of course, the person cleared tonight moves to the front of the line for bribes tomorrow.

[Passacaglia]

Lathum, good to see that the afterglow from the Giants win hasn't dulled your werewolf paranoia :)

If the person who buys the seer agrees with you then they can scan me and learn my allegiance (hint: Rich). Of course, the person cleared tonight moves to the front of the line for bribes tomorrow.

You're not worried that the wolves bought the seer?

[hoopsguy]

Pass, if they (Cutthroats) did then they won't publish info.

No reason for them to publish false info and deal with the ramifications.

[RendeR]

You guys rock.

[Barkeep49]

I'm about to head home. I will post results in about 15 minutes or so.

[Chief Rum]

I'm finally here. I have like 15 minutes to read as much as I can, and vote.

You should put this quote in your signature. ;)

[Alan T]

You're not worried that the wolves bought the seer?

What are they going to do with the seer? A fake reveal on day 2 could be really bad when it is figured out in the next few days. To stop us from getting a seer? The seer is basically a daily service, they will lose the game if they continuously try to block us from the seer, making it an easy day 5 win for us.

The more I thought about what I said earlier in the game, the more confident I am correct. I think they avoid the seer and bodyguard services almost completely. I think someone else copied my thoughts and said pretty much the same thing later in the day as well.

[hoopsguy]

Also, I posted earlier that I thought there was less value today in purchasing the seer (for the Cutthroats) than on any other day due to the likely starting ratios.

So if the wolves are playing the same way that I would in their shoes, then I think we get that service today.

[hoopsguy]

I think someone else copied my thoughts and said pretty much the same thing later in the day as well.<!-- / message -->

I think this could be Alan's WW signature :)

[Passacaglia]

Pass, if they (Cutthroats) did then they won't publish info.

No reason for them to publish false info and deal with the ramifications.

The idea scares me enough not to trust it, but I'll wait to see what happens tomorrow.

[Alan T]

I think this could be Alan's WW signature :)

I don't really let much in this game get to me.. but I feel some times that I type into a wind tunnel. One of these games, I'm going to play like Quikshot used to, and everyone will be completely confused.

[hoopsguy]

For what it is worth, I think that I posted something a bit different than you - that I think the wolves will defer on the seer/BG earlier in the game but make defensive moves for those roles later in the games where the ratios increase the likelihood of these roles damaging their cause.

[Alan T]

For what it is worth, I think that I posted something a bit different than you - that I think the wolves will defer on the seer/BG earlier in the game but make defensive moves for those roles later in the games where the ratios increase the likelihood of these roles damaging their cause.


I've actually been trying to figure out how long the game is going to last. I'm not so sure that I buy that, since realistically no one has any idea after day 4 how many more days there are going to be. Do they risk throwing away money that might be crucial in their win just to block us in one day of many in seer scans?

I think we have to play the early part of the game smart... by day 5, we should still have 60% or more of the people so how we handle the money will be very important. After day 4 it isn't important how many wolves or villagers there are left, its how much money is left... It just doesn't seem feasible that they will want to block us every day on bodyguard and seer.. so I think our strategy is to risk losing it one day along the way to them in order to make sure we don't overspend for them every day along the way.

If we go into it assuming that they won't be bidding much for them if anything, we can bid less ourselves, thus keep more money available for the showdown whenever that may come.

[SnDvls]

anyone got a "not voted" count?

[SnDvls]

anyone got a "not voted" count?


quick glance shows Arles, Swaggs & Daddy T not voted is this correct?

[claphamsa]

bah! vote people... or Bush may win again!!!!

[Lathum]

I thought DT got a late vote in somewhere